Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > The ever elusive bushman delta frosts
The ever elusive bushman delta frosts
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Lazerface
10 posts
May 29, 2012
9:20 PM
Anybody order any of these lately? A few weeks ago i got my order that i placed a year ago. Promptly ordered one more, mainly to see if they feaply have sped up their production. If it takes forever again, i dont know if its worth the bother.
Lazerface
11 posts
May 29, 2012
9:20 PM
Feaply=really
Jehosaphat
249 posts
May 29, 2012
9:33 PM
You waited one year for a Harp to be delivered?
And then, ordered another one!
Are you a Buddist Zen master or somesuch?
Hope this doesn't turn into another B radical saga -^)

Last Edited by on May 29, 2012 9:34 PM
STME58
187 posts
May 29, 2012
10:52 PM
Try a Suzuki Harpmaster. It is nearly identical to the Bushman, and is available very quickly form Rockin Ron.
Ron informed me that the Harpmaster now has phospher bronze reed plates so it is very close to the Bushman.
I have a Bushman in Eb and a Harpmaster in B. The combs look like they came off the same tooling, as do the plastic boxes they came in. The cover plates are quite similar but the outline and image detail are different. I would be very suprized if they are not both made in the same factory.
I have worn out reeds on both. Ron still had Bushmaster reedplates when mine broke, and the Harpmaster I installed ProMaster reed plates in. I really like the Harpmaster/Promaster reed plate combo.

Last Edited by on May 29, 2012 10:54 PM
harp-er
135 posts
May 30, 2012
12:34 PM
My understanding is that the delta frost is indeed the harp master without the new harp master phosphor bronze reeds. With these reeds it is virtually identical with the harp master. My understanding is- Brendan Power has written all about this - that Suzuki manufactured the delta frost for it's re-brander, and that accounts for the similarity.

If you like df, just buy the readily available hm and you'll be getting the same harp.
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Matthew
nacoran
5762 posts
May 30, 2012
1:41 PM
Suzuki makes the Delta Frost. Seydel makes the Soul's Voice. Suzuiki's Bluesmaster has phosphor-bronze reeds.

http://www.suzukiharmonica.com/mr250.html

So does their Promaster. (Both have full body covers rather than the classic tin sandwich design.) The Delta Frost looks like the Harpmaster (except the Harpmaster's cover is cut a little different by the screws, a little fancier.)

They also seem to be a bit crazy with their websites.
If you land on deltafrostharmonicas.com it seems to be an organization called Buckeye Buyers Club/Buckeye Trading Inc., which is supposedly 'new management' although they've been saying that for at least a couple years now. They seem to be associated with Harp Depot at harpdepot.com and all of that is separate from Bushman Harmonicas (http://bushmanharmonicas.com/). That's usually a sign of a company that is trying to hide customer complaints.

I've heard good things about the harps but lots of complaints about customer service, and their 'All American' spiel is ridiculous. I think most people who buy American are doing it with the assumption that they are creating U.S. manufacturing jobs or because they want American craftsmanship. You aren't creating any U.S. manufacturing jobs here, (maybe some sales jobs). I'm not sure if Suzuki makes all of their harps in Japan or if they outsource some of their work to other markets, but Japanese workmanship is certainly a good selling point (as would be the German craftsmanship for the Soul's Voice. (Which, by the way, has it's own harpdepot/buckeye trading domain, Soulsvoiceharmonica.com.) If they are going with a organizational scheme shouldn't that be plural too, or is there only one Soul's Voice, but lot's of Delta Frosts? :)

They apparently also have a 'Blue Steel' harp that Ian Chadwick suggests might be being made by Merano or Johnson factories to compete in the $5 harp market.


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Nate
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1066 posts
May 30, 2012
2:13 PM
There actually hasn't been a Soul's Voice made in years. In fact, I think they were already a thing of the past when I started selling Seydels about five years ago. It is the same basic harp as the Seydel Session. The Session Steel reedplates will also fit, I have Steelified several Souls' Voices. Also, I don't think I've ever seen a Soul's Voice that didn't have the three-reedplate screw pattern, they went to a five-screw pattern around 2005 or 2006.
But NOW... I'm a bit surprised to see Souls Voices being sold now as new. Very surprised. Perhaps they are making them again. Seydel never has, nor ever will, officially admit to making the Souls' Voice.
I see that they are selling them valved now. That's pretty recent that valves became a an optional feature on Seydel diatonics... ala P.T. Gazelle.


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David
Elk River Harmonicas

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"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard

"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
STME58
189 posts
May 30, 2012
3:12 PM
One thing the Bushman has that the Harpmaster can never match it the great double entendre in the name.

Perhaps this comment would fit better in the "Power of live harmonica" thread. ;)
ElkRiverHarmonicas
1068 posts
May 30, 2012
5:29 PM
That reminds me of the lady who walked into a bar and said she wanted a drink.
Bartender says "What'll it be?"
Lady says "I'll have a double entendre."
Then, he gave her some.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas

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"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard

"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne

Last Edited by on May 30, 2012 5:29 PM
Lazerface
12 posts
May 30, 2012
6:29 PM
I have a harpmaster, but i could swear it has copper reeds, i'll have to check the reedplates...
harp-er
136 posts
May 30, 2012
7:02 PM
If it's not one of the very newest models it has brass reeds, like most every other harp. The newest ones have phospher bronze reeds. If you ask Ron of Rockin Ron's Music 4 Less, he'll let you know which he has in stock.
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Matthew
eharp
1824 posts
May 31, 2012
5:45 AM
the best way to buy the delta frost is to call them up at 812-334-4420 and talk to john hall directly.
ask which keys he has for immediate delivery.
i got a couple that i have had for over 5 years and they still are going strong.
Joe_L
1863 posts
May 31, 2012
4:51 PM
Here is my experience...

Bushman Buying Experience

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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1082 posts
May 31, 2012
10:20 PM
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David
Elk River Harmonicas

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"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard

"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne

Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2012 1:06 PM
Lazerface
14 posts
Jun 01, 2012
8:45 PM
Called and talked to john hall today, said it should be shipping in a few days once their new stock comes in. He also threw in a free t shirt
Joe_L
1864 posts
Jun 01, 2012
11:06 PM
Heard that one before...

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eharp
1825 posts
Jun 02, 2012
4:00 AM
for a harp you really like, $30 dollars and a long wait aint that big of a deal, i guess.
GEEZER1
157 posts
Jun 03, 2012
6:44 PM
Why sweat out getting a Bushman, Fine harp but it might take weeks, Rockin Ron can ship you a Harp Master in two or three days, its the same thing. If you blow out a reed . Ron has promaster reed plates. They fit perfectly.
Jaybird
275 posts
Jun 05, 2012
12:28 PM
John Hall is a thief and a pathological liar.
rbeetsme
754 posts
Jun 05, 2012
1:54 PM
I keep one in the car.

Last Edited by rbeetsme on Mar 24, 2013 6:06 AM
Steamrollin Stan
424 posts
Jun 05, 2012
2:08 PM
Wow, there's a niche harmonica market here waiting for someone to take up the slack, i read joes link and was amazed at how many determined but pissed off future customers there are, i think rockin Ron has filled the gap tho, i'm in Oz and purchased some low F Suzuki reedplates and recieved them within no time at all.(interesting blog)
harp-er
138 posts
Jun 05, 2012
8:14 PM
@Jaybird - while I might hold similar thoughts, you probably want to be a bit careful about a possible slander suit with public categorical declarations like that. I'm not a lawyer, but..............just sayin'.
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Matthew
ElkRiverHarmonicas
1105 posts
Jun 05, 2012
9:00 PM
Jaybird, I can tell you for certain that what you posted above meets every definition of libel I've ever seen - and I don't think John would meet the definition of public figure that would be The only conceivable defense I could imagine. You may want to rethink that. You'll see an edit button at the top right of your post, I believe in free speech, but I have to get your back on this. It's libel and defamation.

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David
Elk River Harmonicas

Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook



"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard

"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne
Joe_L
1868 posts
Jun 05, 2012
9:30 PM
The Internet is filled with stories about unfilled orders from the Bushman Music Works. Reports of Delta Frost orders being notoriously late are hardly unique. Stories of deliveries being several months late are commonplace, although John Hall continues to promise that product will ship immediately.

John has asked me on two separate occasions to remove that blog post citing that he is completely focused on Bushman. Usually, within 48 hours of receiving the e-mail, someone complains about lack of product shipment on the blog post.

I've never met John Hall personally, but his business has serious supply chain problems that have been impacting shipments for a couple of years.

Based on feedback from his target customer base, I would not recommend doing business with him or Bushman.

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Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2012 9:31 PM
Sarge
188 posts
Jun 06, 2012
7:45 AM
I also know John personally and I have also had to wait for harps I ordered, but I didn't mind. I recently ordered a couple and got them quickly. John is a good guy that hit a rough spot as rbeetsme explained. I think he will get it all straightened out before long. I know he's been working hard on it.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
ridge
350 posts
Jun 06, 2012
7:59 AM
I've never owned a Bushman instrument, but I have become intrigued by this saga. After reading Joe_L's blog and some other related items, I went to Bushman's website.

I found that they have a rather active Facebook page, where you may be able to contact him. John posts about people's orders publicly there...

The only thing I can find wrong is that he has Ronnie Shellist listed as a Bushman Harmonicas endorser, which I believe to be false at this point. He is a Suzuki endorser. Unless he's both. I just thought it was funny in a nerdy harmonica kind of way.
clyde
261 posts
Jun 06, 2012
8:35 AM
rbeetsme,

where are the delta frosts made then?

clyde
rbeetsme
756 posts
Jun 06, 2012
8:42 AM
I don't know. Sold all of my DF's, no longer a dealer.

Last Edited by rbeetsme on Mar 24, 2013 5:19 AM
GEEZER1
158 posts
Jun 06, 2012
10:16 AM
Lets narrow this down as to where the bushman and the suzuki are made. How many harp companies weld their reeds into the reed plate? I don't know, but the suzuki and the Bushman both have welded in reeds. How many more use this technique? The Bull**** still flows.
Lazerface
17 posts
Jun 06, 2012
7:54 PM
Well, ive been playing the hell out of my key of A delta frost, and i really dig it. Great supplement to my special 20s, although big rivers and marine band crossovers are beginning to catch my eye too. Enough is never enough
ElkRiverHarmonicas
1117 posts
Jun 06, 2012
8:00 PM
There are no workers to find skilled in harmonica building. Been there. Done that.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas

Elk River Harmonicas on Facebook



"It's difficult to think anything but pleasant thoughts while eating a homegrown tomato." - Lewis Grizzard

"Also, drinking homemade beer." - David Payne

Last Edited by on Jun 06, 2012 8:01 PM
Jaybird
276 posts
Jun 08, 2012
1:31 PM
John Hall is a thief and a pathological liar.

I STAND FIRMLY BEHIND THIS STATEMENT.

How many people paid John Hall for harps, and NEVER GOT THEM?

How many people got jerked around with bullshit excuses for months, and finally gave up waiting for them to be delivered?

That makes John Hall a THIEF in my book.

Go ahead. Sue me.
eharp
1828 posts
Jun 09, 2012
2:25 PM
how many people paid john for harps and got them?
how many people were told something by john and he came thru?

that makes him a straight shooter in my book.
nacoran
5819 posts
Jun 09, 2012
3:23 PM
I'd have no compunctions about buying one second hand from a source with a better customer satisfaction reputation. I understand the desire to keep your prices down by selling direct, but it would seem to me with all the negative comments out there that building up the trust with a couple reputable dealers who could directly sell what they've got in stock might make people less wary. At the very least only sell what is in stock and get it out right away.

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Nate
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hohnerjones
38 posts
Mar 23, 2013
3:18 PM
So it's been a while since the latest Bushman drama, John Hall weighs in, has his usual tirade and his band of faithful followers defend their harp guru. Are the harps now available? Is JH delivering? I bought 2 from my friend Rick at the Bean Blossom Bluesfest 4 years back (Bushman didn't have any to sell at their own fest). I liked them. Both are still in my car and play well enough for an out of the box harp. Might replace them if I thought I could get some in the near future. Anyone buying from Bushman?
Charles.Doughty
13 posts
Mar 23, 2013
3:49 PM
I am still waiting for 3 harps after over a year of promises. I certainly will not buy from John Hall anymore. Harps are ok but the business practices of Bushmann are pretty ridiculous.
groyster1
2202 posts
Mar 23, 2013
4:11 PM
is it harpmaster or bluesmaster from suzuki that are the same harp?just buy them from rockinron and to hell with jon hall.....
Goldbrick
115 posts
Mar 23, 2013
7:20 PM
Man and I thought Jon Hall was Ramar of the Jungle

Last Edited by Goldbrick on Mar 23, 2013 7:27 PM
TheoBurke
348 posts
Mar 24, 2013
6:41 AM
I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but in the last three months I've ordered 4 harmonicas from Harp Depot, 2 Delta Frosts and 2 of the Soul's Voice, and received all of them promptly. The prices were good and the instruments play superbly. My experience has been positive. I realize, though, that mileage can vary. But I am encouraged.
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Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee

http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.co,

Last Edited by TheoBurke on Mar 24, 2013 7:00 AM
hohnerjones
39 posts
Mar 25, 2013
6:56 AM
I think Harpdepot may be a good choice, thanks for the help guys. These Delta Frost harmonicas are perfect for the car, durable, play easily, volume is decent, the gritty tone is kind of funky, wouldn't want to play them out.

Last Edited by hohnerjones on Mar 25, 2013 6:59 AM
hohnerjones
40 posts
Mar 25, 2013
10:01 AM
If Mr. High and Mighty doesn't want me playing his harps in my car then maybe I'll buy from Hohner or Suzuki or Lee!
TheoBurke
351 posts
Mar 25, 2013
1:24 PM
As I said, I ordered some harps recently from Harp Depot and recieved them in short order. But could someone clarify the distinction between Harp Depot and Jon Hall's Bushman Music? Are they owned by different parties, or are they connected.

Just curious.
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Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee

http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.co,
Bigtone
179 posts
Mar 25, 2013
2:05 PM
Even if these harps made you sound like Little Walter why would someone want to go through the hassle, drama and trouble of getting these things. I mean if I got an amp from a guy and it was broken when I got it, then I got another and it was broken again I think I would stop buying from the guy because he obviously is not in the right mind to be selling anything to anyone.
Kingley
2455 posts
Mar 25, 2013
2:17 PM
TheoBurke - As I understand it. John Hall used to be an owner of Harp Depot. Then he sold it off and now runs Bushman Music. I'm also led to believe that when John Hall was an owner that Harp Depot had an awful reputation for delivering to customers. Thankfully it would appear that situation at Harp Depot has changed for the better.
eharp
2084 posts
Mar 25, 2013
4:01 PM
bigtone- the difference is the harps aint broke. it seems to be more of a delivery issue. entirely different.
kingley- harp depot's problems began AFTER john sold it. still continues if the forums are correct.
Kingley
2458 posts
Mar 25, 2013
10:07 PM
eharp - Maybe I was informed wrongly. If so I apologise. That's just my understanding of the situation with the information I was given.
arzajac
1017 posts
Mar 26, 2013
6:25 AM
John Hall told me that the people who run Harp Depot used to work for him. He says they ripped him off and started their own company. Copied his website and everything...

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rbeetsme
1166 posts
Mar 26, 2013
9:12 AM
arzajac, Doc bought HarpDepot from John. A woman who used to work for John started harmonicasandstuff, in New Palestine, IN, same small town where John used to live. And yes, in the beginning, she stole the image of John sitting on a rail playing harmonica as her logo. I shot the pic.

John Hall photo 7.jpg

Other than that, I have no opinion.

Last Edited by rbeetsme on Mar 26, 2013 1:58 PM
arzajac
1018 posts
Mar 26, 2013
11:08 AM
Well there you have it!

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rbeetsme
1207 posts
Apr 21, 2013
8:09 PM
I just read that Bushman has turned all retails sales over to Elderly and a music store in Ft. Wayne, IN (forgot the name) This strikes me as a good move, let a well known respected online retailer handle the sales. I rarely read any complaints about the harmonica, just the customer service, so maybe that issue is now solved. As with any online sales purchase, I suggest you call first to determine available stock. Hard to fault Elderly, I buy from them often. Might be a good time to try a DF. (Just don't play them in your car, JH frowns on that)

Last Edited by rbeetsme on Apr 21, 2013 8:13 PM


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