johntrem
2 posts
Jun 02, 2008
5:15 PM
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I have a Big River in A (my favorite key). I find it has less reed resistance when blowing or drawing, especially on the lower notes. I tend to blow out of breath on a note with this harp more easily than others. Due to this less steady resistance, it is more difficult to maintain a clear, steady tone. When I A/B the Big River with a Hot Metal in A, I don't blow out of breath as quickly, get clearer tone and have more control with the Hot Metal. There is more steady blow/draw resistance with the Hot Metal. I find this puzzling as the Big River is a more expensive harp and made in Germany as compared to the Hot Metal being made in China. I would assume that the BR would be of a higher quality than the HM.Is the playing phenomenon I am describing what is known as being leaky? I hope I am explaining what I am experiencing with the BR clearly enough to be understood. I like the Big River's sound and the fact that it is a bigger, chunkier harp. It feels solid. I like it asthetically, but when I pick up the Hot Metal, I can play it better. Is there any manner of adjustment that could be made to the Big River to increase the blow/draw resistance? Also, getting back to my original question: Is this phenomenon common to the Big River line? I've seen leakiness mentioned in reference to Big Rivers in other posts. I'd hate to buy another one and encounter the same problem. Thanks.
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geordiebluesman
29 posts
Jun 03, 2008
1:34 PM
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The answere to your question is YES,the Big River in my experience is an awfull harp,they leak like a burst tyre on a bike ridden by a fat lass down a bumpy track! do yourself a favour and get a Marine Band Deluxe they're the one's with the real MOJO!
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Patrick Barker
67 posts
Jun 03, 2008
4:18 PM
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I haven't tried either, although I've tried a couple China- made Hohners and they're usually pretty similar. I can't say for sure, but what you may be interpreting as airtightness in the hot metal may actually be a lack of responsiveness, since sometimes a harp won't take much air and won't be very loud either, while your other may be a bit louder. I'm guessing both harps are probably pretty leaky though as they are low end.
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johntrem
4 posts
Jun 03, 2008
4:23 PM
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After tightening the reed plate to the comb, there was an. improvement in playability. I discovered this while changing out a reed plate on a Lee Oskar, which I hadn't done before. Though Geordie, I'm sure your MBD is a superior harp.
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oldwailer
58 posts
Jun 03, 2008
7:04 PM
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Check out this article on how to seal up a leaky harp--I found that it works for me, and it is a pretty easy thing to do on a BR harp--which I like a lot, by the way. . .
http://www.hunterharp.com/moyer1.html
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johntrem
5 posts
Jun 03, 2008
8:39 PM
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Thanks Oldwailer! I was trying to come up with something along these lines while replacing the reed plate in the Lee Oskar but couldn't think of anything viable. I'll give it a try.
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Jeff
95 posts
Jun 03, 2008
8:51 PM
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Just read a few reviews online and you'll find the entire MS series from Honher is pretty much leaky cheaply produced Chinese junk. If you're going to stick with Hohner's diatonics, I would only get a MB Deluxe, MB, Sp20 or Golden Melody.
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Jeff
98 posts
Jun 05, 2008
10:40 AM
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Here's a very interesting post from pro Bob Maglinte on another board about the MS Series and why the Big River is such a sub-standard harp:
"They were gonna make the MB's part of the MS series, but when a number of players here in the US got to play the prototype in 1991, myself included along with Jerry Portnoy, we all hated it, and a number of players who had endorsement deals with Hohner threatened to bolt in a hurry.
The MS Big River was exactly what the MS Marine Bands were, but with a different engraving on the top cover plate, and used the same comb that the MS Blues Harp used.
Nothing from the MS series will be compatible with the original (hand-made as they call it) setup at all. The very first of the MS series stuff used short slot reeds, and anything below the key of C were extremely difficult to bend in the bottom octaves, even for really good players. Many pros in Europe actually ordered the hand made MB's from the US for that very reason, and ditto for Special 20's. The changeover was because of changing European health laws that meant nothing could be small enough to easily fit a baby's mouth."
Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2008 11:08 AM
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mr_so&so
2 posts
Nov 05, 2008
1:57 PM
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For what it's worth, I have a few Big Rivers and I quite like them. They sound good, are more consistent than MBs and don't have the comb-swelling issue (plastic comb). I'm talking about the made-in-Germany ones. No experience with the Chinese ones.
P.S. I've tried a few other harps, Marine Band, Suzuki Blues Master (also a nice harp). Not sure that leakiness vs. air tight makes that much difference --- to me. Your mileage may vary.
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Aussiesucker
54 posts
Nov 05, 2008
5:06 PM
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My Big River in A is really leaky. I will not be buying another to find out if they all leak! It looks a quality harp and the marking on the coverplate suggests it is German made but it sucks heaps of air!! Have had it apart a number of times and fitted micropore tape between comb & reedplate but little to no improvement. Any suggestions of what else I should try would be welcome?
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TNFrank
9 posts
Sep 13, 2010
2:43 PM
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You could try making a small, thin paraffin gasket to put between the reed plates and comb. You can get paraffin at the local store in the canning dept. then you can heat it a bit so it's pliable and make up a long, round string of it to act as a gasket. I'm still too new to playing harp to really notice what's good and what's not. I can tell a difference in the look and feel of the quality between my Big River and my el cheapo Blues Band though, LOL
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Hohner Harps:
Golden Melody in C(bought in '76)
Blues Band in C(what else,LOL)
Big River in A
Hot Metal harps in G, A, C, D, and E)
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Stickman
408 posts
Sep 13, 2010
4:48 PM
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I like mine. I think the whole leaky thing is way overblown! I thought mine leaked until I learned to play them and realized it was more poor technique than leakyness.
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The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
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Joe_L
620 posts
Sep 13, 2010
4:59 PM
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If you learn to play them, your patience and work shall be rewarded. I play them and I like them. I can play any harp in the Hohner line without complaint.
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HarmonicaMick
128 posts
Sep 13, 2010
5:33 PM
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In my experience, BRs are more leaky than some other harps, e.g. a Spl20. The latter has about a zillion screws holding the reed plates down.
Still, Stickman raised a good point about technique. The original post used the word 'blow'. Without meaning to split hairs, you should never blow through a harp; that way, you'll run out of air on a custom. You breath through it.
The distinction may be an obvious one in print. Nevertheless, it can take a long time to master when actually playing - me thinks!
Aside from all that, I am fond of BRs too; they have a gorgeous tone, and are used by pros to boot.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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KingoBad
370 posts
Sep 13, 2010
6:30 PM
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I have had a great deal of success with Big Rivers. After setting them up, they were all great for OBs too. I found them loud and fun to go back to and play every now and then. I still keep a low Eb Big River in rotation, and it is a great harp.
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Joe_L
621 posts
Sep 13, 2010
6:52 PM
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In the past decade, I've probably gone through 40 MS harps in a variety of keys. Most of them were Big Rivers. Some were Pro Harps and Blues Harps.
I've got another 24 Big Rivers sitting in boxes that are either currently getting played or waiting to be played. Ten of those came from a friend of mine, who decided to play Special 20's. The rest I bought from from Guitar Center when they were selling for $17. A couple of the harps I got from my friend needed to be cleaned and re-gapped, but I haven't had any real issues with any of the 64 or so MS series harps that I've owned.
If they are dead, it's because of operator error. That would be me. I have lots of dead harps of all kinds in my dead harp box.
I switched to the MS harps when the quality of Marine Bands were questionable. I figured that if the quality was going to be bad, at least I wouldn't be playing much for them.
I've never really felt they were leaky. Hell, I can play a Marine Band 365 without a problem. Most people find those super leaky.
I've got a bunch of Bushman Delta Frosts that I picked up real cheap. I've played Hering Vintage 1923's. I own a few Marine Bands in their various offerings. They are all good harps, but I tend to go back to the Big River.
I do not believe that I possess any great deal of skill. Unfortunately, harps have a way of dying at the most inopportune times. It's nice knowing that I can pick up any commonly avaialble harp at any music store and play it. I believe that if one can play a Big River, you can play pretty much any harp. They are worth owning.
However, as the price continues to creep up, I may make the switch to the Manji as several friends of mine have done.
Last Edited by on Sep 13, 2010 6:55 PM
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TNFrank
18 posts
Sep 13, 2010
7:11 PM
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I wonder how the Suzuki FolkMaster would compare to the Big River. The FolkMaster is a bit cheaper and from what I've read the Suzuki brand is a pretty decent harp. I know I really love the covers on their BluesMaster harp, if I can get the funds it might be my next harp.
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Hohner Harps:
Golden Melody in C(bought in '76)
Blues Band in C(what else,LOL)
Big River in A
Hot Metal harps in G, A, C, D, and E)
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jbone
396 posts
Sep 14, 2010
4:19 AM
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i had a phase where i -played mostly BR's. they were cheap and i was fairly broke, plus i figured that replaceable reed plates would make them even more wallet friendly.
i learned a lot about playing harp while i was using them, mostly that they aren't leaky in the usual sense. it's not bad fitting plates to comb. imho the reed to slot clearance and the gapping of individual reeds made for a harp requiring more breath to play. this put ALL of the MS series reed plates in question. on top of that i once ordered a set of thicker plates in a particular key, which cost me over $30 with shipping. so the BR was not such a cheap harp after all. not to mention, the thicker reed plates actually took less wind and more control, and blew out fairly quickly.
i'm not much for tinkering with harps. if it doesn't play well ootb, i won't usually give that model another chance. this is why i've not bought a MB for many years.
meanwhile, we see hering '23, bushman DF, and several Suzuki models emerge and take a significant place in the market. most have replacement reed plates available. and we see the Manji take the harp world by storm at least in some arenas. my oldest Manji is about 11 months old and NONE of my Manjis have bitten the dust yet!
i recently resurrected a few older harps, Hering '23 and even an MS blues harp. but my main harp is the Manji and closely followed by Delta Frost. i believe the DF actually uses Suzuki built plates.
it is really true, the BR is a good harp to build musical character on, and i advanced my chops considerably in the process of learning to play them while also learning to use better air flow and control. when i went to a different harp it was suddenly easier to make it work well.
economics is still an issue here at my house. but instead of buying cheaper harps that i know will likely let me down, i have opted to spend more per harp and get Manjis. since they respond better than all but custom harps and appear to have some real longevity, it makes the most sense to me. my mind is not closed on the issue, but for the present it just makes the best sense to me to use what i see as the best and actually most affordable and long-lived production harp out there.
too bad Hohner has not made a similar leap to 21st century technology when it comes to the real guts of a harp- the reeds. you can put different covers on the same old harp forever, it will not raise that harp to a new status or level of quality.
Last Edited by on Sep 14, 2010 4:23 AM
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AV8R
61 posts
Sep 14, 2010
8:57 AM
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Bushman has reduced the price of their DF models to $25-free shipping too. That's a good price for a solid harp.
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TNFrank
37 posts
Sep 14, 2010
9:00 AM
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Does Bushman have them in all keys ready to ship? MF only has the B and the F# in stock and they're $29.95, it'd be cheaper to order direct from Bushman if they've got em' in stock ready to ship. I might have to look into that, I've read that they make a pretty decent harp.
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Hohner Harps:
Golden Melody in C(bought in '76)
Blues Band in C(what else,LOL)
Big River in A
Hot Metal harps in G, A, C, D,and E
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Joe_L
623 posts
Sep 14, 2010
11:23 AM
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We willfind out soon. I ordered one last night. I'm not sure why. I have enough harps.
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TNFrank
48 posts
Sep 14, 2010
11:26 AM
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It's called "HAS" (Harp Acquisition Syndrome), I think I've got it, at least until I get what I need to play on. The big problem is that they're so dang cheap by comparison to say a guitar or bass so you can buy up a bunch of em' and before you know it you've got 50 sitting in a drawer somewhere. LOL
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Harps:
Suzuki HarpMaster in C (on order)
Hohner Big River in A
Hohner Hot Metal harps in G, A, C, D,and E
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Joe_L
625 posts
Sep 14, 2010
11:56 AM
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I don't have that problem. I needed one to fill out a small set I keep in the car for emergency purpose like sitting in with friends or impromptu jams.
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Blueharper
132 posts
Sep 14, 2010
12:00 PM
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Not sure it has been mentioned in this thread,but Big Rivers were Paul Delay's choice.Don't know if he tweaked them.
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MP
832 posts
Sep 14, 2010
4:04 PM
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pete sheridan told me mark hummel used them. this was about 1999 or so.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Joe_L
626 posts
Sep 14, 2010
5:03 PM
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When I saw Hummel last Tuesday night, he was playing Seydels.
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groyster1
470 posts
Sep 14, 2010
7:21 PM
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Musselwhite likes seydels the best
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walterharp
454 posts
Sep 14, 2010
7:59 PM
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of course all big rivers are leaky, that is how water gets to the ocean :-)
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Kyzer Sosa
782 posts
Sep 14, 2010
8:12 PM
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no they are not all leaky... if they are, i have the only one that isn't...
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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