kudzurunner
3269 posts
May 22, 2012
4:45 AM
|
The promoter at a festival I'm playing later this week in Switzerland has the following amps available:
1 Ampli Genz Benz acoustique
1 Jazz Chorus 120 -
1 FENDER VIBRO-KING
1 FENDER 65 TWIN REVERB
1 FENDER BLUES DEVILLE Reissue
1 FENDER HOT ROD DELUXE Vintage
1 AMPLI VOX AC 30
1 AER Compact 60
None of them seem quite right for what I do. I was hoping for something small, with 8's or 10's. But touring is often about making the best of sub-optimal situations. Which of these amps will work best for harp? Specifically, which of these will overdrive most easily with a given mic input level?
--AG
|
hvyj
2427 posts
May 22, 2012
5:32 AM
|
The Genz-Benz, Roland Jazz Chorus and AER are all solid state and super clean. Never tried a Vox.
Probably one of the Fenders would be your best bet. For your sound, maybe the Blues DeVille or Hot Rod Deluxe if someone with experience playing through those amps can give you an idea about how to dial them in for an overdriven tone while avoiding feedback. Personally, I'd use the Twin, but it has too much headroom to overdrive easily for the sound you want, unless you use a pedal of some sort.
As a practical matter, controlling feedback may present a bigger problem than getting an acceptable tone.
Just a thought: A VC on your mic may help to cool out the input signal so you can adjust the amp for best tone while avoiding feedback problems. It's a trick that works pretty well.
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 5:53 AM
|
7LimitJI
669 posts
May 22, 2012
5:58 AM
|
I'd go with the Blues Deville.
My first gigging amp was a Roland Jazz Chorus 120, 4 x 10". You can get a good useable sound from it too.
----------
The Pentatonics Reverbnation
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
|
billy_shines
419 posts
May 22, 2012
6:30 AM
|
little walter rarely carried an amp and like sonny boy usually used the house PA. in the early king biscuit days sonny played through a radio. at roadhouses he hotwired his mic into the jukebox. since i always use the PA and stand back country style i would go ennie meanie miney mo.
|
MJ
421 posts
May 22, 2012
6:39 AM
|
I would go with the Vibroverb Adam. According to a Harpamps article "
The VibroVerb came in two flavors. The first was in Brown Tolex in 63,
and was also a 2 x 10 amp. These are very much collector items, and they
sound great. When the Blackface era started, the VibroVerb became a 1 x
15 amp, and they also increased the internal operating voltages a bit, so
it used the same power transformer as the Super Reverb. The blackface
Verb has the same chassis size as a Super, which is somewhat larger than a
Vibrolux. These Black VibroVerbs sound totally killer if you like a very
fat clean tone. The most famous user of these amps was SRV. Look at his
Live at the El Mocambo video, and you'll see one behind him (along with a
Blackface Super Reverb). I've worked on one that had the optional JBL
D130, and was blown away with the tone. It is LOUD and punchy as hell.
The low-end response is to die for, and it also has suprisingly good high
end, way more than you would expect from a big-ass 15. These amps are not
for the high gain, high disdtortion death and thrash metal crowd. Since
these Blackface VibroVerbs are very rare, an example in excellent
condition will sell for about $2000. Gotta love those 15s!!" Thats just my thoughts. The other amps mentioned may present feedback problems.
|
HarpNinja
2456 posts
May 22, 2012
7:00 AM
|
Have you thought about:
1. Using a pedal into the PA like the Lone Wolf stuff
2. Bringing your HG2 as a carry-on?
Those are all great guitar amps, and generally very clean/loud compared to your normal rig. The biggest issue will be feedback, but if you're outdoors using a dynamic mic, you might be just fine.
----------
Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
|
5F6H
1210 posts
May 22, 2012
7:01 AM
|
@ Billy Shines "little walter rarely carried an amp"
There may have been periods where Walter didn't carry an amp but conversely he was stated as saying that he was far from happy when he was no longer allowed to record with his/an amp, nor when he had to play acoustic on the AFBF tour. Tube PAs in the 50's were low powered "amps" anyway...less headroom than top of the range guitar amps of the period.
@MJ - Vibroverb wasn't an option.
I'd go with the Blues DeVille, it'll be pretty hot on the volume control sweep, might have to use the #2 input?
"Vintage Hot Rod Deluxe" eh? No doubt transported back in time from the year 2050, when they will have become collectors items? ;-)
----------
www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
|
kudzurunner
3270 posts
May 22, 2012
7:05 AM
|
@HarpNinja: Oh, I'm definitely bringing along the HG2. But I always use two amps when I'm in OMB mode, as I'll be here. For small venues, the promoter has a little 5 watt thing. We'll mic it up. But for the festival stage, I need something a little bigger. I don't particularly like 4 x 10s in the one-man setting--it's a LOT of sound when the amp is cranked up, which is where it'll need to be in order to give me the sustain that is a part of my sound--but on a really big stage, outdoors, it'll be fine.
I'd love a Vibroverb, but as already noted, that's not an option here.
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 7:06 AM
|
HarpNinja
2458 posts
May 22, 2012
7:09 AM
|
I'd go with the Blues Deville then. I haven't tried all on that list, but have uses a Blues Deville a few times...
----------
Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
|
The Iceman
325 posts
May 22, 2012
7:12 AM
|
I'm a fan of "force of will".
Whichever amp you are given, use your force of will on it and it will sound great.
----------
The Iceman
|
Stevelegh
509 posts
May 22, 2012
7:14 AM
|
Following 5F6H's post, I'd avoid the Hot Rod unless it's had the volume pot changed out. They've sorted it on the MK III, but Fender used to fit 250k audio taper pots as standard. Volume between 3 and 4 is in reality like 3 and 9.
It's an old music shop trick. You demo the amp and because 4 is so damned loud, you assume it's going to get progressively louder.
Nice amp, but I'd avoid it unless you can confirm it's had the volume pots changed. I'd assume you wouldn't want to take the risk of showing up and having issues.
Here's a link regarding the issue.
http://www.justinholton.com/hotrod/jvmods.html#master
I know this is complete overkill and actually does the reverse of answering your question, it's all good info and may serve someone here well.
|
LSC
215 posts
May 22, 2012
7:21 AM
|
@MJ- The amp on offer is a Vibro King not a Vibroverb. Two totally different beasties.
The Hot Rod Deluxe is closest to what you're used to, though still not the most wonderful choice for what I've heard as your sound. Everything else is either solid state or is high powered, cleaner in tone, and more prone to the dreaded feedback.
Personally I'd simply tell the promoter what is on offer doesn't work well with harp and ask that he provide a Bassman RI. Not an unreasonable request, easy to find, and I'm sure there are other players, guitar players as well, who would also prefer one.
Failing that you could also reach out to the Swiss blues guys that you need to borrow a harp amp. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't somebody out there with a Sonny Jr, a Bassman, or even something small and vintage who would love to have you use their amp in exchange for a backstage pass. I know I would.
----------
LSC
|
billy_shines
421 posts
May 22, 2012
8:05 AM
|
im sure walter was unhappy. problem today nobody is willing to suck. its always a truckload of backup amps and mics and harps in case something goes wrong. you dont even know what shape these amps are in adam worry about the tsa putting their fingers in your ass. worry about your harps getting fucked up by baggage handlers because harps are sharp and can be used as knives to hijack airplanes but its ok to carry razors and bic lighters and laptops and cell phones that can easily set on fire. yeah worry about getting your harps there in one peice. i dont own one but definatley bring a reed wrench. oh and bubble wrap the big bubbles not the little ones that stuff is a miracle at thwarting the asshole airlines baggage handlers. yeah worry about the harps worry about your sound when you get there. no matter how well you plan thing will go wrong and expect the unexpected. like artic spring air altering your voice and harp playing keep your throat wrapped even on the plane and talk as little as possible. if it was me and i was using an amp which i never do id use whatever the last guy used because it worked.
|
dougharps
193 posts
May 22, 2012
8:16 AM
|
I am sure that you can get a good tone out of about anything, but I would suggest that you avoid the clean solid state amps for your purposes.
If the Blues Deville is the 4-10 model, I would agree absolutely with 7LimitJI and encourage you to go with that, especially for an outdoor festival (it might be too loud to get your tone in a normal room). I prefer using the clean channel on these, and turning up until I like the tone. You could set it off to the side a bit, so it doesn't overpower you.
If it is the 2-12 model of the Blues Deville, I guess it could do the job, though I don't like it as well as the 4-10, and prefer a single 12 amp over one with two 12s.
The Hot Rod Deluxe might do the job, but in my opinion there is a narrow range that gets good tone before you could have feedback issues, and it isn't as good as the Deville.
These are my personal opinions from my playing through many amps belonging to others in various sit in situations and jams over time. I do not own any of these amps.
I think that of the amps listed, the Blues Deville best meets your needs, even if it is bigger than you would usually choose.
----------
Doug S.
|
HawkeyeKane
948 posts
May 22, 2012
8:25 AM
|
I'd go with either the Twin Reverb or the AC30. The Twin because I've always loved them as a harp amp, and if it's a vintage '65 blackface then you'd seriously be in business with that. I'm not a huge Vox fan myself, but I AM an oddball EL84 amp lover. And let's face it, the AC30 is a great amp for handling different effects. If The Edge (who I consider the master of different effects on guitar) has used a '64 AC30 on every U2 album, then it's gotta be worth giving a whirl with harp.
----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 1:36 PM
|
MJ
422 posts
May 22, 2012
8:27 AM
|
My bad, I miss read. "Never mind"~ Gilda
|
waltertore
2268 posts
May 22, 2012
8:37 AM
|
I would go with the 5w amp. I lived in Europe for 2.5 years and when touring was always at the whim of what was provided. Once I had to play through a stereo system. Then other times I would see a really cool classic amp of my liking on the stage and it sounded terrible. Also the foot switch for the reverb/tremelo often was not there. I have used the big amps on big stages. The problem is you are going to blow your head off getting the tones you get on the little amp and the sheer power/air moving of the big ones makes it unatural unless one is use to using it all the time. I prefer to set up onstage and get my amp volume to my liking with no monitors and then run just a tad of vocal through them if needed. When they mic the drums/cymbal the norm is to be bottom dominant. I want my drum sound to sound like it does in a small (unamplified) room. Again I go with no monitors on the drum kit most times because the soundmans mix is worse than the unamplified sound. Our culture has gone bass crazy so they want to pump that to crazy levels it seems everywhere you have soundmen today. Louisiana Red played any guitar, any amp, and it always sounded like Red. I take that approach when doing gigs like this one because the amp you pick might be a dog or a gem. As far as the amps to pick, I say pick the ones that sound the best :-) Good luck on your tour! Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
4,000+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 8:43 AM
|
hvyj
2428 posts
May 22, 2012
10:24 AM
|
If you are playing through a guitar amp that has not been retubed for harp, going into the #2 input to avoid feedback is a good suggestion.
|
billy_shines
424 posts
May 22, 2012
10:34 AM
|
didnt red use open E?
|
arnenym
49 posts
May 22, 2012
11:01 AM
|
It's always a gamble to learn how new amps sound and behave. Especially when you're out on tour. Why not buy a LW Harp attack and learn how it works before you go to europe?
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 11:02 AM
|
waltertore
2269 posts
May 22, 2012
11:10 AM
|
Red played in every tuning known to man. He literally played all his waking hours. I lived with him and was amazed at how much and how great he played on any kind of guitar, any tuning, any amp. Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
4,000+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
|
MP
2277 posts
May 22, 2012
11:43 AM
|
"I'd go with the Blues Deville. "
i second that being as it'll be closest to what you like. even so, these are tempermental amps that feed back easily.
kim wilson has used a pair of these amps recently but i seriously doubt they were stock and i'm fairly certain he had a feed back blocking device.
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
|
S-harp
35 posts
May 22, 2012
1:01 PM
|
I have a Fender Hot Rod Deville 410, for those gigs when you need to be heard. No mods done. It's loud. I'm guarantied the loudest
one on stage with that amp, like it should be.
Kim Wilson requested this amp when he played here some years ago ... 'cuase you know what you get and they are built like tanks. Always works. Wilson actually played on my amp ... and yes, he used antifeedback control ... Kinder I think.
To have in mind with these Amps is that the Hot Rod channel often is useless for harp. (It does produce a very nice pregain breakup at low volumes though). The clean channel is the way to go and perhaps the gain channel with the master high and gain low as an extra channel.
I plug in nr 2 and nr1 is nice for à dynamic mic straight in lowZ and colors well with the amps different gain possibilities. This amp really likes dynamic mics.
----------
The tone, the tone ... and the tone.
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 1:05 PM
|
MP
2279 posts
May 22, 2012
2:11 PM
|
"Kim Wilson requested this amp when he played here some years ago ... 'cuase you know what you get and they are built like tanks. Always works. Wilson actually played on my amp ... and yes, he used antifeedback control ... Kinder I think. "
it's very possible i mixed up Blues Deville with Hot Rod Deville. i'm not sure what the difference is. perhaps higher wattage on the Hot Rod?
i've played the Blues D but never the Hot Rod D.
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 2:13 PM
|
whiskey&harmonicas
43 posts
May 22, 2012
2:42 PM
|
Why not a Marshall, or even a Laney?
|
S-harp
36 posts
May 22, 2012
2:46 PM
|
The Blues Deville and the Hot Rod dito are pretty much the same 60 w 410 amp as I understand it, with the Hot Rods possibility to further gain wich is unusable with harp. Seem to be more Hot Rods around though, maybe that's à reason, there were not any Blues Devilles around.
I checked the thread and the Hot Rod Deville is not an option. (-:
The DeLuxe on the other hand is à 40 w amp 112 dito and works for harp.
My choice would be, as stated above, go with the Fenders.
Bring a good spread with mics to match the amp and you're all set.
----------
The tone, the tone ... and the tone.
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 2:48 PM
|
jbone
916 posts
May 22, 2012
9:32 PM
|
i had a hot rod delux for a year or 2. it was a feedback bitch but then i never tried a gain cutter. these days i'd take a couple of 12au7's along to stick into p2 and p3. i'd also take a jumper cable along to bridge between the clean and hot channels because this might actually give better breakup characteristics.
turning a knob on a fender amp all the way up shuts the feature down so i'd try cranking the highs all the way up, drop the mids and maybe bring the low end up some. if there's a gain keep it low. same with reverb. also work with the "minor" volume knob first and then the master volume. probably also a good idea to mic the amp to the p.a., so when you get the sound you want it can be pumped out front. low monitor volume off the harp amp is a good idea too.
you may already know all of this Adam but in case you didn't....
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
|
marcos
86 posts
May 22, 2012
9:37 PM
|
Seems like it would be a good idea to carry along a couple of AU7 tubes, or maybe an AU7 and an AT7, to make a quick tube swap if you need to tame feedback?
|
Fingers
166 posts
May 23, 2012
12:38 PM
|
Blues Deville i used a stock one for 7 years and never needed to mike up!! i still have it i cant bare to part with it.
|
bharper
161 posts
May 23, 2012
6:13 PM
|
I would suggest the Blues Deville or Hot Rod Deluxe. Kim Wilson plays two Fender Hot Rod Deville 410 amps (60 watts each, very high gain) when he plays festivals or large shows. But, he uses a Kinder AFB+ pedal and an ART Studio tube preamp to settle things down.
The Blues Deville will probably work best for you. If you are able to carry a small tube preamp with you that might improve the tone a bit.
|
