Rgsccr
13 posts
May 21, 2012
10:17 PM
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Lots of you were nice enough to give me advice on lower cost practice amps. I went to my local guitar center (Seattle) to see if they had some of those amps - Fender Champ 600, Epiphone Valve Jr., VHT Special 6, etc. Although, they sell most of those amps, they didn't have any on hand. What they did have was a Peavey Classic 20 which I played and liked a lot. I put down some money to hold it. I also tried a Fender Blues Jr. which liked as well, but not as much. Looking around the web, I saw almost all positive comments, and, for $195 they are asking, it seems to be a good buy. Just wondering what you guys and gals think. Thanks. Rich
Last Edited by on May 21, 2012 10:18 PM
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MrVerylongusername
2376 posts
May 22, 2012
12:02 AM
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It is a great guitar amp with a great clean tone - I used to have one for mandolin - and that can get real dirty, really quick. The guitarist in my band uses two chained together.
Even with some tube swaps I found it way too hot and bright for harp.
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HawkeyeKane
947 posts
May 22, 2012
6:41 AM
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How long has it been since those were in production? I honestly can't remember the last time I saw one, in store or otherwise.
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Hawkeye Kane
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LittleBubba
223 posts
May 22, 2012
6:54 AM
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MVLUN is correct: it's a clean amp, which might make it a good practice amp, 'cuz you'll hear every little nuance in your tone,attack,breathing, etc.
If you liked it better than the Blues Jr., it may be an indication that you like a cleaner harp tone at this point.
Power wise (20 watts can be alot) , as clean as it is, it'll cut on stage if you ever need it for that.
If it has the same circuit design as the Peavey 30, there are some issues with ease of repair, but you may never encounter that.
You need to like whatever amp you choose, and trying them out before you buy is good.
I've gigged often through a Classic 30, and though it ain't the dirtiest sounding amp around, I've gotten good results out of it.. and those amps LOOK good, so they'll match your fedora. :)
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Rgsccr
14 posts
May 22, 2012
11:02 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback (I guess that's a dirty word for harp players). I did some more searching about the Classic 20 and found several people (on guitar sites) suggesting that this amp could be made much dirtier by changing the speaker and/or the tubes. Does this make sense? I do like a dirty sound, although I may not know when or if I am really getting it at this stage. I mainly play for myself and sometimes in jams.
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HawkeyeKane
949 posts
May 22, 2012
11:47 AM
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@Rgsccr
Speaker swap....maybe. But the tube setup is kinda hard to improve upon. I'm guessing the 20 came with some form of 10" Blue Marvel. If you want it dirtier, I'd look into some kind of Weber alnico. But if you want it fatter, you might try a 10" bass amp speaker with a ceramic magnet. MUCH better low and mid response than a ceramic guitar amp speaker.
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Hawkeye Kane
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LittleBubba
224 posts
May 23, 2012
8:32 AM
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@Hawkeye Kane: Couldn't you swap out at least the first preamp 12AX7 for a -AT7 or -Ay7, to try to warm it up at lower volumes?
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HawkeyeKane
951 posts
May 23, 2012
11:05 AM
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@LittleBubba
Perhaps. But one needs to be careful when swapping tubes on a Peavey tuber because unlike a lot of other popular amps in its class, its wired on a silicon circuit board instead of point-to-point. Things can get hairy if there's a level of current that it doesn't take well to.
A 12AX7A might be a safe possibility since it's a low noise version of the AX7. A 12DF7 might work too...same ratings as the AX7, but I'm not surea bout the pinbase.
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Hawkeye Kane
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LittleBubba
226 posts
May 23, 2012
11:20 AM
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I downtubed my Classic 30, based on reviews on Harp-L, and it worked fine on that amp (I've used it that way for years now), but I haven't seen anything specifically about the 20.
I'm not in love with my 30 either, but it works great for cuttin' through bar noise when people are fallin' into your monitors and hollerin' drunk at each other. :)
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bharper
160 posts
May 23, 2012
5:59 PM
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rgsccr, don't buy the Peavey Classic 20 to use as a blues harp amp if you are looking for a "dirty sound" as you say. It is a terrible amp for that, and there is really no way to improve it much. You will be disappointed, I promise you.
It doesn't sound like you will be performing any time soon. I strongly suggest you get a low-watt practice amp with good tone, such as the VHT Special 6. Resist the urge (and the suggestions) to make any changes to it.
And some of the advice here is just... well, wrong. Don't but a speaker meant for bass guitar in a low-watt amp for harp. It will sound deader than fried chicken.
Almost all guitar amps that we convert for use as harp amps are built on a printed circuit board, not point-to-point wired on an eyelet board. In general, it is safe (but not often wise) to swap in any tube you like that fits.
The goal is to lower the gain in the preamp section to avoid feedback. All the 12AX7 tubes have the same level of gain, whether they are "low noise" or not. You can find info online about all this; just Google "12ax7 gain" and look around.
It is a common myth that we can make most any guitar amp "harp friendly" by jacking around with the tubes or the speaker. And you will make many fewer mistakes in your quest for a good amp if you already have experience with a low-watt practice amp with good tone.
Get the VHT Special 6 and practice a lot. That will get you going in the right direction.
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garry
221 posts
May 24, 2012
5:37 PM
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i agree with bharper regarding getting an amp that sounds good as is. maybe when you've got more time in and know what you're looking for you'll want an amp you can mod to get the sound you want. but for now you've got more important things to work on. plenty of time for gear fetishism down the road.
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5F6H
1212 posts
May 25, 2012
4:08 AM
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@bharper "Almost all guitar amps that we convert for use as harp amps are built on a printed circuit board, not point-to-point wired on an eyelet board. In general, it is safe (but not often wise) to swap in any tube you like that fits."
The board material, or presence of a board at all, has absolutely no bearing on the safety of preamp tube swaps in typical guitar amps. It's more relevant to power tube sockets that are mounted direct to the PCB, where the PCB is subjected to significant heat generated by perhaps 20-50mA per power tube. Preamp tubes run much cooler & much, much less current. Reverb drivers (12AT7) in Fenders run very hot for a 12A#7 type tube, in the classic RI series they are mounted in discrete sockets with flying wires to the PCB.
It's the quality of the plate & power supply resistors that are critical & these can fail in ANY amp...& do...it's inconvenient when it happens but easy to remedy & if you avoided all brands of amp that suffered this failure mode, then there would be nothing left to play through! :-) I have replaced failed plate resistors in as many handwired amps as PCB amps.
Low voltage amps (~350vdc B+) like the Epiphone valve Jr, Peavey Classic 20, VHT Special 6 should tolerate preamp tube swaps safely. A 5751 (military, low noise 12AX7) which is a popular choice in the preamp for the VHT & Champs is just as safe as some types of 12AX7 (which incidentally DO vary in gain, from ~70mu to 100mu, if not as significantly as subbing for an alternative tube type.)
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HawkeyeKane
956 posts
May 25, 2012
8:32 AM
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"Don't but a speaker meant for bass guitar in a low-watt amp for harp. It will sound deader than fried chicken."
I've successfully done this twice in two different amplifiers that were both under 20 watts dude. My 15 watt Vypyr uses a 12" 4 ohm bass amp speaker, and it sounds better than it ever did with its original 8" 3 ohm speaker. And I helped a buddy of mine install an Eminence Basslite in his Blues Jr., also resulting in a successful improvement in low end tone.
And I wasn't trying to discourage him from the tube swap, simply recommending caution. I HAVE seen silicon micro-circuitboard based amps blow circuits out at cap and processor leads after ill-advised tube swaps have been made. A Blues DeVille and a Vypyr Tube 60 come to mind....the Vypyr never worked again after that, though I didn't feel all that sorry for the guy. He shoulda known better than to mess with something that had so much digital processing in it.
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Hawkeye Kane
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