Hi Ant. I use a Low E for this......I have played it in Low D and F but E seemed to have the perfect melodic/rhythmic balance. This is a Marine Band- I'll have to check out the Special 20 - sometimes my lowest reed rattles- which for this piece is fine
Yeah, Ant, his albums are great! I just bought his solo-harp album, "Vera Hall", on cdbaby... That is going to be an album that I am going to study, man!
By the way, I've been practising this song while walking to my bus stop in the morning, and walking really does help you lock in the rhythm! Thanks for that tip, Dan! ---------- == I S A A C ==
Here's where I'm at so far (using a low D - haven't got an E):
...it's a real tongue-twister. I must have been playing it for a couple of hours before I recorded this and my tongue was about dead, hence the moments of mush mouth where the rhythm goes askew. I still haven't figured out exactly how he plays this - he gets a lot of separation between the melody and the ryhthm, and the rhythm really bites. I can do a little of this over the course of a lick or two, but sustaining it for two or three minutes is murder!
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 3:26 PM
Nice Jodan! I think you are closer than the rest of us... You've got something that I am still missing! It's something to do with the groove and the way you phrase the single notes in relation to the chug. That's the part that's really throwing me for a loop! well done man! ---------- == I S A A C ==
Nice one jodan. Yeah the separation between the melody and the ryhthm is the thing. Think I may try and get closer on a higher key then bring it back to my LowF. That's all I have in the low harps. The four draw is not very sensitive/responsive.
Nice work Jodan, your TBing skills are second to none :o)
@Isaac, i just noticed in the post with your video you say that the tip of your tongue was raw after playing or woodshedding the tune.
I learnt to TB from Dave Barretts lessons, he advises to TB with the top of your tongue rather than the tip. I've just tried using my tip and it doesn't work so well, try using the top of your tongue further back from the tip to block the holes, its alot easier.
Here is a TB slap and pull instructional from Deak harp. This really helped me achieve those slaps and pulls and really gave me my eureka moment with TBing.
Apologies if you have seen it before:o)
----------
http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
Last Edited by on May 22, 2012 11:11 PM
The top of the tongue, eh? Why didn't you tell me that BEFORE I rubbed the tip of it raw! :) lol! I'll most definitely start doing that from now on! And thanks for posting that Deak harp video! I'd never seen that one before, so it was very helpful! I must admit that, other than playing splits, when it comes to tongue blocking, I really feel like a complete newb again! I've been following those Lee Sankey vids recently, and I just can't do most of it while keeping a tongue block! It's a challenge, and I'm enjoying it, but it makes me realize (again) just how much there is to learn on this little instrument of ours! ---------- == I S A A C ==
That's a great solo piece, and the covers are all coming along nicely. I will be woodshedding this one myself I think.
Have to admit; I was a 100% lip purser until I went to a workshop hosted by Brendan Power at Sidmouth last year. At one point he demonstrated very simple folk tunes (such as Mary Had a Little Lamb) using chordal tongue slaps to provide rhythm. Those simple tunes played with spot-on tone and timing turned my onto TB playing instantly.
Nice playing guys! I was stuck in a rut some months ago with my playing. I started really hammer my TB:ing and chugging which got me all excited again. I have actually done something I heard Joe Filisko say at a concert: worked on my Train imitation. It's hardly music but it's a great workout for your breathing and the harmonica police won't fine you. That is, if Joe ran the harmonica world and made the laws. ---------- Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Tried it in low F and low C, my only low harps. Looks like I will have to be contactiong Rockin' Ron soon. Can't get the chunkiness that Dan has but it is definitely something worth aiming for.
Nice one Bronzewailer! I love the way you use your hands! That's got to be one of the keys to this piece, because you achieve that cool wailing tone that I can't seem to get! Well done!
FYI, I think that low C is just a little too low for this one.. Jodan definitely pulled it off on his Low D, but I could hear him really starting to gasp near the end. I think if you get too low then breath control just gets really really hard... Dan says (and I agree) that the Low sits just right for this one, both in terms of breathiness and the tonal center, but your Low F sounded great too. ---------- == I S A A C ==
Thanks Isaac. Yeah, driving the low C is very challenging, but I find it good training too. I thought the low F too high, but the bends are a lot eaiser. I think the hands help the tone part. A great song for studyng. Kudos to Dan for making and jodanchudan for sharing.
Last Edited by on May 23, 2012 4:53 PM
I've been meaning to give this a try too. This morning, I listened to it a few times before heading off on my walk to work to start working on it. Walking really is the way to go with this one. I got the first riff down by ear, and am listening to it on a loop at work today. I have a lot more work to do yet before I post my version, but stay tuned.
What I like about this tune is the steadiness and crispness of the rhythm, and how Dan is able to make it sound almost separate from the melody. I also like the atmospheric background of this recording; sounds like rain or thunder in the background (but maybe just road noise?). Anyway, it adds to the recording in my view.
I also have to say it has been fun learning along with you guys here: Tooka, Isaac, Wailer, Jodan, Ant. You guys keep me motivated to keep pushing the boundaries. ----------
@Wailer: Yeah, I know what you mean about the Low C! I just got a set of "steelified" Low C reedplates from Dave Payne in the mail yesterday, and I put them on a Solist Pro and gave it a whirl this morning! Man! It's like driving a bus when you are used to a maserati! I do have a Low D, and a Bass Harp, so I have cultivated a modicum of skill on the low harps, but that Low C is a beast unto itself! I'm digging it so far, and will bust it out in a video fairly soon!
@mrso&so: Yeah, I love the ambient sounds in the recording too... Among other things, that really makes this recording special! And ditto to the motivation business! With this forum (and you fine folks), I probably would have quit trying to get better at the harp years ago! ---------- == I S A A C ==
@Isaac. "It's like driving a bus when you are used to a maserati!" Great analogy. I found I was starting to get TB bends when mucking around on the low C after watching jodanchudan's Bye Bye Birdish stuff. So yes, the stimulation from you other guys here has been great. Not to mention Tooka's challenges which I found intimidating/motivating. @Mr S&S. Yeah, I think it's traffic bumping on the road above the bridge. I have been playing in tunnels recently. Sometimes the traffic noise is so much it's distracting. A ranger came along the other day (I was in an abandoned rail tunnel) to make sure I wasn't up to mischief. She asked why I was playing there. I said it's like singing in the shower. Sounds better. Keep on harping, gents!
For those working on this piece, I have a few observations from my first day listening to and trying to play it. I may not be 100% correct on my analysis which is just by ear, not by slowing it down.
First, Dan is a freaking master at this style, so don't feel bad if you can't sound like him right away. I'll be working on this for a long while (but will submit my first attempt soon despite its level of crappitude).
Second, the rhythm is produced by slapping and pulling; slapping to get the melody note and pulling to produce the I chord (second position) on holes 1-3 or 1-4 or 2-4 (I can't tell what he is doing exactly). He is doing both the slap and pull very cleanly to get clear notes and a crisp chordal rhythm.
Third, the pull is the key to the rhythm; to get a nice crisp chord sound, you need to completely seal off your embouchure with your tongue so no air is moving, then pluck it off the holes you are covering. If you listen to the rhythm Dan gets, it sounds the same each time, so somehow he is doing his pull by covering exactly the same holes each time. This is tricky when the melody notes move around, down to holes 1 or 2, or above hole 4, or if he holds a note until the last fraction of a second before his pull and has to get back into position for that.
Fourth, doing a slap into a bent note is tricky too. You have to be pretty good at TB bends to do this. Dan's version sounds bluesy because he is doing that so well.
It's nice to have such a fine example to work from. I hope my comments are helpful. Now back to some practice, practice, practice... ----------
Thanks for that summary mr_so&so! You've really nailed the essence of what makes Dan's version so damn good! He's just really really good at that! I've been practising this every morning as I walk to the bus, and, although I've made a bit of improvement, I'm nowhere near sounding "good" at it! lol! But yes, I know that Dan is a master at this, so I'm not discouraged at all! Practice, practice, practice!!! ---------- == I S A A C ==
Had an idea for a looped tune based on this - very loosely based! It's far too noodly at the moment but there might be something in it. I don't know what's going on with the ending; it's been a long day.
Good analysis, Mr S&S. That is helpful. His tongue slapping is so crisp! And timing is impeccable. Back to the woodshed. I can report that it is a good busking song too, by the way. Sounds so cool, even though I am only part way there. I second Isaac's comments o jdcd's looping. Great!
I've been really enjoying the discussions, the technical ideas and all the versions - and variations on the theme - I've been staying out of it for a bit because so many good things are happening with the exchange, beyond the specific piece. I just wanted to add, i played this for almost three years before the recording- it evolved - I've enjoyed it in G,low F,E and D. Glad everyone is finding a a way to make this song theirs - Dan
@Zazodica: I've continued to work on this song, this style, and on other of Dan's songs. I'm making progress, and I think I've gotten much better at it than the versions I posted here. Have I mastered it? Not in the least. This is some seriously tricky stuff here, and it's ALL in the subtleties... I'll be working on this for a while to come still... ----------
