I have been working every day for the last six months or so on learning to play (only ten years to go!!). I have major problems with the 3 hole bends, and I sure could use some help.
I have read a lot about bending technique, and I have no problem hitting single notes reliably and cleanly. No problem hitting the one hole draw bend dead on every time with good volume and tone. No problem hitting the two 2-hole draw bend notes every time, although I am still working on tone. I can hit all the other bent notes just fine (tone and technique excepted), but when it comes to the three-hole draw, all I can get is a wimpy pre-bend down about a 1/4 semi-tone.
I have tried all sorts of tongue positions, all sorts of airflow differences, all sorts of different attacks. I have tried hitting the bend right from the start, and I have tried hitting the straight three-hole draw and then pulling it down. Nothing seems to work.
Today I tried going to Google, and I saw that Adam had posted a YouTube video on three-hole draw bends, but as I guess you all know, his account is now gone, so no luck there. My sense of frustration is growing - I know I just need to work through this, like everything else I have done so far with the harp, but right now I am up against a brick wall. Let's face it - I ain't never gonna play the blues if I can't hit the 3d 1/2 step bend.
I would really appreciate any thoughts you have or pointers to videos that might help me break through this.
You'll get it sooner or later, keep on playing watch all the lessons you feel comfy with and if you can have a couple of face to face with a pro you'll benefit for sure, that being said i'm no expert but i still watch and practice at every opportunity. I use mostly special 20's btw.
Do you have only one harmonica? I ask because my the second harmonica I ever bought had a leaky comb and I could not control the bend on it. When I resolved the issue with the leak (I sanded down the wood comb) the problem went away. Had that been my first harmonica, I would have thought it was my technique.
It may not be a defect in the harmonica, though. The gaps may just be too wide. Again, if you had another harp, you would have a better idea.
I never knew his account was down, try this someone posted It a while back and its amazingly good. It's all his lessons with discriptions right at your finger tips.
@Steemrollin Stan and @arzajc, thanks guys. I have several harmonicas, but mostly play my MB in A. I have one really good HarveyHarp (thanks Harvey!!). It is a long story, but he recommended I put it away until I had learned to play so that when I picked it up I would appreciate it. I will get it out and give it a try, although up to this point every problem I have had has always turned out to be with my technique and had nothing to do with the harp :-(.
@jimbo-G, thanks!! I will go check this site out right now. Not being able to get to Adam's videos would be a great loss for me right now, given how much I have to learn.
I'm not sure if this will help, but give it a go. It's not something I read in a book, but I think it's more or less how I play the 3 draw bent notes. Try it on a lower harp first, say an A.
1) Play the 2 hole draw, then bend it down.
2) Now, go to do the same thing, same embouchure, same everything, but on the 3 hole. You should get a rather quacky, horrid noise. It's the noise we've all made when going to play a particular hole, but hitting the wrong one.
3) Ask yourself what just happened; answer: you formed your throat, tongue, jaw and lips in the shape your brain has learnt to make a 2 draw bend, and it didn't work, because there is a subtle difference in technique on the different reeds.
4) Now, put your harp down and pretend to play a 2 draw bend. Draw the air in, in the way that you normally would. Notice how the placement of air is near the back of your mouth, or in your throat.
5) Now, do the same thing, but focus the intake of air towards the front of your mouth; the air should feel cooler at the front of the mouth than in 4, above. That is closer to the placement of air in a 3 draw bend.
I should add as a caveat that I think this is what I do, but I'm not really sure. What I am sure of is that I, too, nearly went completely bonkers when trying to learn how to bend the 3 hole draw.
If you want to take a look, I've got a video on bending the 3 hole (the Godfather Theme) but it doesn't discuss the mechanics. Maybe it will help, maybe not.
If what I've written doesn't work, then let me know, and I'll revise my advice the next time someone asks. ---------- YouTube ditties
fwiw i do not think bending the 3 draw, on a normal harp, is any harder than most of the other notes. I do think that hitting all the draw notes accurately with good tone is one of the more difficult things..
try that good harp.. remember it does not take more force.. it seems to take less force to bend...once you get it you might want to put down the harvey harp, but with that one at least you know it is you, not the harp
you might want to make a gentle tock sound with your tongue starting at the roof of your mouth and then dropping the back of your tongue. it seems to be an easy way to start a percussive bend that works for some
I think to make the job easier it is crucial to spend some time on getting the reeds gapped right and also it is the often the only hole slots that i always emboss on an OOTB harp. Often a micro mm difference in how the reeds are gapped can deliver much easier bends. I start with the blow reed and gently close it down until with medium blow force it chokes.(plink the reed allthrough this process)Then do the same with the draw reed. Then just open them to where there is no choking,from here it is all about infintesimal adjustments to where you hit the right interaction between the reeds to deliver the bends. Not rocket science but it is finicky work,especially on the higher keys.
@ Jehosaphat: without wishing to start a row, or be confrontational, I strongly disagree with you.
I think it is misleading to advise inexperienced players that "...it is crucial to spend some time on getting the reeds gapped right... etc."
I used to post an awful lot on here under a different user name - well over a thousand posts - and, during that time, I got the distinct impression that some players saw harp-tinkering as an end, not a means in itself. That's not a crime; it's just something that some people seem to like doing.
Anyway, my point is that I've only ever had one OOTB harp that I couldn't bend the 3 draw on without an awful lot of hassle (a Hohner Bluesharp in D, I think it was). And to suggest to a relatively new player that investing time in reed gapping will solve their bending problems is just not going to help them learn the technique.
I know how easy it is for arguments to kick off on here - that's one reason I got fed up with posting - but I just think that you're wrong in this case.
@slimharpmick No problem here Slim..we all have different approaches to everything. It's just that when i was starting out i wish I had known about things like gapping and all.I probably wouldn't of ditched so many 'unplayable' harps I'd defy anyone to get the bends on some of those 80/90s harmonicas from Hohner that i had. But point taken.
I agree with the idea of trying to learn this bend that has you stuck by playing a variety of other harps, though I suggest holding Harvey's custom harp in reserve to avoid problems due to beginner technique.
If you are struggling with the 3 draw bends on several different harps it is not an issue of adjusting reeds on one harp, it is learning how to shape your mouth and throat to match the needed sounds. I have had harps that needed adjustment to play bends easier, but they all would bend anyway without adjustment, once I learned how to bend that note.
Only if there is no sound at all on a reed would I suggest you try adjustment/cleaning an obstruction. At this stage of your harp adventure while you still lack technique, I would not recommend adjusting it by yourself.
If you are already bending the 1, 2, and 4 draws, it is only a matter of practice and experimentation until you get the 3 draw bend. Be gentle, relax, breathe through the harp while you bend (don't suck real hard on the note). Switching among different keyed harps, bend the notes you can bend (1, 2,& 4?)in varying order, trying the 3 bend intermittently as you shift around on those bends you can perform. You will soon find the right internal architecture and you will begin bending the 3 draw. Then you practice to hit each note.
At HCH III there will be many people available and willing to help you with this issue or with harp adjustment, if needed.
100% agree with Mick. If you have to gap ANY harp to get a bend, then you should stop tinkering and use the time to practice.
When I say any harp, I mean it: shitty £1.99 golden cup Chinese toy harp, 80s Hohners (yes, I did play them), blues bands and Piedmonts. I've played some horribly leaky marine bands, where the 3 draw was airy, but the bends were still there.
Gapping has a place; it is to complement good technique - not to replace it. And yes, every now and again you get a harp with a leaky 3 draw and you should know what to do. The important thing is recognising that if every harp seems to have a leaky 3 draw, then actually it's you that's at fault.
Last Edited by on Apr 27, 2012 9:21 AM
You guys are great! Thank you so much for being willing to help. I dug the Harvey Harp out and started working with it, and low and behold, I was able to get all three bends out of it. They sound awful, but that is not a problem - just takes another year of practice. Once I found something that sort of worked, I went back to the MB in A. It was *much* harder to get the bends out of. In fact, all I have gotten out of it so far is the 1/2 and 1 semi-tone bends. But at least I was able to hit all three bends with the Harvey, and I know if I keep working, I can get the technique down on the MB as well.
@SlimHarpMick - dude you were right on target. I was using the same form on the three-hole as I was on the two-hole. I did exactly as you said, and as soon as I picked up the Harvey and moved the air-flow forward, all three bends just popped right out. (I went back 20 minutes later and it was just like starting over again, but that just shows I need to practice). So your technique works very well. Thank you very much!
@Jehosaphat and SlimHarpMick, 1) thank you for not starting and pursuing a flame-war. I really would not have felt good if the conversation had gone downhill because of a post I made. Well done. 2) As for the question of whether to tell a newbie about harp tuning, I think this is a very important topic. Maybe we should start another thread. Frankly, every time I have found that the harp would not do something, I have known in my heart-of-hearts that it is me, not the harp. Every time. So from the standpoint of having a newbie mentally accept that they need to do more work, I guess it is correct to stay away from harp tuning as a source of the problem. But… I think any harp player, even newbies like me, should know how their instrument works and know how to take care of it. Also, having the Harvey allowed me to figure out what was wrong with my basic technique, so in a way, Josaphat had a point. I expect if I gap and emboss my MB on the three draw, it will perform better. But maybe I am the exception. I have been working on stuff for many years, I have worked on fixing really small stuff for years, so I have the tools and magnifiers, and I am a woodworker and know how to finish wood. Perhaps it is best for newbies to not open the harp up and try adjusting it. On the other hand, what the heck – buy a junker off of ebay and have at it.
I was fortunate enough to have Harvey spend about three hours with me showing me the basics of harp tuning (thanks again Harvey!!). Without this, it would have been pretty hard to get started. But with that as a launching pad, I have already rebuilt a couple of harps. As a newbie, getting under the hood (or under the covers) allows me to better visualize what is going on when I am trying to play. But I am a real visual person – I need to see what’s going on. Tuning is not an end in itself, but I have already found that it is another aspect of this amazing instrument that has peaked my curiosity and made me happy to have picked up the instrument.
Thanks again everyone – and thanks to dougharps for the HCH pointer. I already have made my plans to attend.
@ The ATL: I'm very pleased that you've started to get the hang of the 3 hole; it can be a little bugger! Just to add a quick point - which, I expect you may have already inferred from my previous post - practice it on the lower harps until it gets to be a little more natural. Then, try it on the higher harps, say D and above. I think that most folks would agree with that.
@ Jehosaphat: I'm glad that we could differ without a forum-war. I think a lot of folks, as time goes by, are getting a bit tired of all that spite on the web. It just makes everyone involved feel shitty. Anyway, hope to talk - or even argue! - another time. ---------- YouTube ditties
@ATL..you'll go far with that attitude.,good luck. As for Forum disagreements..well it is a Forum so that is what it is.If we all agreed on everything it wouldn't be a forum it be something like Stalins committee meeting..disagree and you better pack some winter woolies,or worse. Hate to stir the pot but back in the late eighties i was taking a few lessons from Brendon Power here in NZ and in frustration i took my new 1896 in A along to him to see if he could make the bends on the 3 that i couldn't.(obviouly i didn't look like the sorta guy who had Herpes or something) Nope,so he took it apart on the spot,gapped the reeds and there they were.Thats when i first learnt about the mechanics of the Harp. But yes with the vast improvement in Harp quality over the years chances are that now it is more likely technique to a degree ,although i bought my first Manji a while back and had to do some gapping on it. Also whats the first thing people say when they get a Custom harp?Usually "it bends like butter" Learn to gap and thats what you can have or least a closer approximation of it. Good enough for Brendon ,good enough for me ;-)
Gaps are a very big part of bending especially hole 3. Hohner quality has gone up a lot the past few years so the out of the box harps are much better now. Once you get all the bends out of each draw hole its time to put them into different contexts. On a C harp: cdefgfedc def#gagf#ed ef#g#abag#f#e there are more patterns but you get the meaning. Some are harder than others.Direct bend are always tough. G blues scale in first ocatave and D blues scale in first and second octave. I suggest Beginning Country Harp by Charlie McCoy to help with your bends. If you can find a teacher take lessons it will take years off your learning curve. A teacher can give the feed back you need. Sometimes it as simple as you can't bend that note because you don't have a good seal try this and it all changes.
---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Thanks again for all the great tips. I know what I will be doing this weekend ;-).
@Diggsblues, I definitely have already discovered the difference gaps can make. I had found that on my MB A, some of the high holes, especially the 9B just would not start without hitting it hard. Then you could back off. When I was at Harvey's place, he gapped the harp and now the 9B starts vibrating with just a little pressure. Made a *huge* difference. But to SlimHarpMicks point, as a beginning player, I can say there have been plenty of times when I wanted to blame the equipment. But having played guitar for a number of years, I already knew that buzzes, dead notes and other problems were always owned by me, not the instrument. Any good guitar player can pick up a bad guitar and still make good music, and I think the same probably goes for harp players as well.
So I guess it is a combination of things. New players should know that it is remotely possible that gapping has to do with why they cannot get a particular note, but that it is *much* more likely that there is a problem with their technique.
@Lumpy, something strange is going on with Adam's account. Try this:
that is probably that one video that got taken down. There was a whole long thread about it a while ago. ---------- "Come on Brackett let's get changed"
TheATL, maybe you clicked on a link to a repost of his account? I just went down the list of his first 100 lessons and only two videos were flagged- number 1, which we knew about, and number 23.
@SlimHarpMick Just checked out your Godfather video. Thanks very much Mick. This is great. It is always better to practice a technique with an end in mind. The way you play this straight up without any bends or slurs really puts the pressure on me to clean up my technique and focus on hitting things square on the head. Great job!
@ Brad: Thanks for the kind words. In the comments section, there's a link to a pdf of the tab, should you feel inclined to tackle the piece.
One other thing that sprang to mind is this: as a prelude to nailing them head on, you might want to try practising that hole unbent, then bend it down to the bottom and back up again, portamento (as if you were sliding your finger on a violin string). I don't know whether this is something that good teachers recommend, but I find that it really helps me to focus on where the bending action in my mouth/throat is; it certainly seems to reveal where the weak spots are. ---------- YouTube ditties
