bambootune
1 post
Apr 23, 2012
2:21 PM
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Hi,
I have done a lot of 'text book' research on the following harmonicas, but would like to hear of experiences from those who have used them or even better compared them.
‘Hohner Special 20’ vs ‘Lee Oskar Major’ vs ‘Suzuki BluesMaster’ vs ‘Suzuki ProMaster’
Thank you.
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FMWoodeye
307 posts
Apr 23, 2012
2:47 PM
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I have and have had several of each except for the BluesMaster. Of the harps listed, I prefer the Special 20, even over the premium-priced Promaster. That being said, I prefer the Hohner Crossover to all. Of course, it's a very subjective question.
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Jehosaphat
229 posts
Apr 23, 2012
3:01 PM
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Well they are all good OOTB harps.
I mainly use L/Os but you have to be aware that they are equal tuned,which dosent really suit some blues playing(lack of sweet chords)
generally when this question comes up this Forum tends to gravitate towards the SP20..but as i said they are all good harmonicas.
What kind of music are you looking to play mainly?
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TheoBurke
10 posts
Apr 23, 2012
3:15 PM
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Special 20's are the most reliable of the three; tones are consistently good, they respond well; they do not last long with heavy playing, though, a draw back. But they are the standard for affordable , professional grade diatonics. Lee Oskar Major Diatonics are bright, loud and durable, and they bend easily. They do not, however, provide much color. In fact, they are rather colorless to my ear. Promasters are inconsistent--bought a key of C, which is one of the best harps i own, and then bought a b flat and a d, both of which were sluggish, too tight, not responsive. They are not my favorite harmonicas.
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SuperBee
237 posts
Apr 23, 2012
3:59 PM
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oh no...
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ej
9 posts
Apr 23, 2012
4:32 PM
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I've been playing Suzuki Promasters because the covers don't catch my mustache hairs the way Lee Oskars and Hohners do. I like the sound better than the Bluesmasters. I've put bamboo combs into some of the Promasters and I like them even better.
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rogonzab
37 posts
Apr 23, 2012
4:39 PM
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Special 20 if you want to play "Clasic Blues".
Bluesmaster if you want to play blues and other kind of music.
Harpmaster if you want to try diferents keys.
The special 20 is the standar, that is a fact.
The bluesmaster is a great great harp, and they do have a longer life than the hohner. If you are a beginer that is important.
The harpmaster is at the same level of quality than the bluesmaster, and the special 20, but much cheaper.
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bambootune
2 posts
Apr 23, 2012
4:55 PM
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Thanks, this is great feedback.
From the info I have found so far from various places, the Special 20 seems to be the preferred choice for most.
I was more inclined towards the Promaster, but there doesn't seem to be many users of it (not that it matters) - I am sure this may not be the case.
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2012 4:58 PM
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hvyj
2352 posts
Apr 23, 2012
4:54 PM
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IMHO, the Suzuki Hammond is better than all of them. And the Crossover is also very nice harp.
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tookatooka
2923 posts
Apr 23, 2012
4:57 PM
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If Suzuki made a harp the same size and tuning as the Special 20 I'd buy it everytime. Until they do I have to use the Special 20.
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gmacleod15
155 posts
Apr 23, 2012
5:45 PM
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They are all fine harps and the advice above is good.
IMO if you are a beginner that wants to play blues then I recommend the Suzuki Bluesmaster. They are long lasting and bend well and probably less expensive.
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MBH member since 2009-03-24
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groyster1
1862 posts
Apr 23, 2012
10:51 PM
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although LO are very durable harps,the Sp20s are superior sounding harps,its all about the tuning....just dont like the sound of equal temperament would rather have all my harps JI tuned or at least compromise tuned like Sp20s
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Gnarly
226 posts
Apr 23, 2012
11:18 PM
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I did some repairs on some newer Golden Melody harps and liked them a lot.
Seems like you could coax these out of their ET condition and they would satisfy--do they last?
They sure OB easy . . .
Last one I bought had drift pins holding the reed plate to the comb (it was a while ago--my earliest SP20s were the same).
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nacoran
5592 posts
Apr 23, 2012
11:46 PM
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I haven't played any Suzukis, but I've got several Lee Oskars and they are practically indestructable (unless they have a loose screw and you put them through the washer and dryer, oops...). For my playing style I prefer Equal Tuning, so they suit me, except for the mustache hair argument- it's those darn square cutouts. At least they let me know when my mustache needs some grooming. I like Sp20's too. They are more bluesy sounding. I haven't found them quite as durable, but they are nice harps. I'm slowly filling in my collection with LO's, but I'm trying to mix some SP20's in every few harps. Ideally I'd like to alternate as I go up the scale so I can always be just a half step away from having an Equal or Compromise Tuned harp. I actually really, really like the one Seydel I own. I put them on my Christmas list, but the truth is they are just enough more expensive to put them out of reach for me for the most part.
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Nate
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STME58
162 posts
Apr 23, 2012
11:52 PM
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I have all of the harps except the Special 20. They are in different keys so comparison is not great. When I pick up my Promaster in Bb it seems well sutied to playing Bach. I have gone though 3 sets of reed plate on this one. My Lee Oscar is a G and it seems like a good general harp. I don't seem to reach for it too often though. I have gone thour 2 sets of reed plates. The Bluesmaster is one of my favorites. I have one in A that I have replaced a couple of times (reedplates are not available) but the last time I blew it out I installed Promater reedplates and I really like this combo. IF my playing improves to the point where I can buy new harps instead of reed plates for old ones I will try a special 20.
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FreeWilly
191 posts
Apr 24, 2012
12:27 AM
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Advantage of Sp20 is, that if you eventually turn to the Marine Band Deluxe/Crossover, you'll have a lifetime supply of reeds for them, as they share them with Sp20.
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Andy Ley
164 posts
Apr 24, 2012
2:12 AM
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I've owned one of each of the harmonicas mentioned, and they're all good models; if you bought any one of those they would almost certainly play well, sound good and allow you to make great music.
When it's my money being spent, however, I have faith that the Suzuki harmonica will be consistently well set up OOTB & very durable (I've not killed a single one yet, and my bluesmaster was one of the first harmonicas I owned when I was blowing like the wind and wrestling draw bends to the floor with brute force). Also, Suzuki's (UK at least) customer service is very good. I once shredded the head on a screw dismantling my Bluesmaster to do some gapping. I contacted them asking if I could buy a replacement and they posted me a set free of charge.
As for Promaster vs. Bluesmaster; I love the weighty feel of the PM in my hand and my mouth. The minimal coverplate engraving and all-silver design looks gorgeous. However they cost about 50% more than the BM, and I don't think they really play or sound 50% better.
Obviously all of the above is my own opinion and experience, YMMV.
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Jim Rumbaugh
717 posts
Apr 24, 2012
5:39 AM
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I have had more than 1 of all 4 mentioned harps
I now choose the Special 20.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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HarpNinja
2355 posts
Apr 24, 2012
6:04 AM
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I've had all of them...at least sets of 5-7 of each. My first pick is the Special 20 as they have never been better OOTB. My second choice would be the Promaster.
I've never been thrilled by LO's. I did have a full set of Bluesmasters when I first started playing. Solid harps, but they felt breathier than the SP20, and when I got into overblowing, I switched to Golden Melodies as that was the in thing. At that point, I realized I don't like recessed reedplates.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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chromaticblues
1211 posts
Apr 24, 2012
6:25 AM
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Special 20!
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Andy Ley
166 posts
Apr 24, 2012
6:43 AM
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Lot of love for Honer here. I may have to give them another try.
What is their quality control like now? The reason I stopped buying was because of the high rate of wrong'uns I bought and had to take back to the shop. This was maybe 5 or 6 years ago.
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HarpNinja
2357 posts
Apr 24, 2012
8:32 AM
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Quality control on current production models has been great. If it is in a blister pack, or the new box, then it is good to go.
As previously stated, I think the longevity of a harp is very hard to calculate beyond your own personal experience.
I've been playing for 9 years and have only ever killed reeds on harps I was learning to tweak on regardless of brand...well I guess I've probably killed less than 6 reeds by playing that whole time.
In full disclosure, I probably don't play most very often either. I haven't been gigging much the last two years.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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LittleBubba
215 posts
Apr 24, 2012
10:31 AM
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Harps tuned differently have their separate purposes (duh!). Aside from that, imo, the feel of a harp makes a difference to me, given that it plays the way I want it to.
In that respect, my main harp is the SP20, 'cuz I jus' like the feel & heft of the thing.. and the comb.
I stock Lee Oskars for the tuning.
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hvyj
2357 posts
Apr 24, 2012
10:56 AM
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Yeah, the tuning (ET).
Personally, I've never understood why so many harp players want to play harps that have notes that are out of tune with the rest of the band just so they can sound more in tune with themselves when they play chords. this has never made sense to me.
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bambootune
3 posts
Apr 24, 2012
12:11 PM
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Thanks again for all your advice, it is greatly valued.
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Gnarly
227 posts
Apr 24, 2012
4:36 PM
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@hvyj It's the difference tones--if you play a dyad (two note chord), a third note pops up.
If that note is out of tune, YOU'RE out of tune.
And if you are playing amplified, it's even more obvious.
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2012 4:37 PM
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hvyj
2359 posts
Apr 24, 2012
5:22 PM
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@Gnarly: I play pure ET and i play split interval double stops all the time which is what generates the strongest difference tones and they do NOT sound out of tune and DO NOT put me out of tune.
Now, you do that on an ET harp through a bullet mic with a lot of distortion THEN you will have problems with the difference tones. But through a quality XLR mic, it's NOT close to being a problem, and there's more problems with the notes that are deliberately tuned flat than there is with difference tones. Believe me, I were out of tune, the musicians i play with would be pretty quick to let me know about it.
now, i regularly play multiple positions which makes the deliberately flat tuned notes on a compromise tuned harp even more problematic. The deliberately sharp tuned notes are no treat, either. I am much better able to play in tune with the rest of the band playing ET, even doing stuff like 1 and 2 chord Delta blues. Ever try to hit a microtonal bend accurately on a reed that's tuned flat? Good luck.
Some players say chords sound "sweeter" on compromise tuned harps but I think they sound fatter on ET harps and more "sing-songy" on most compromise tuned harps (not so much on Crossovers, though). And chords BEAT on compromise tuned harps (like an MBD) as well as on ET harps. So i don't get it when players complain that chords on ET harps beat--they do, but so do chords on compromise tuned harps. They ALL beat (except for maybe JI) so BFD.
I just don't perceive the advantage of playing an instrument with out of tune notes. But, keep in mind, I'm talking about playing with other musicians.
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2012 5:36 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
1 post
Apr 24, 2012
5:31 PM
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At one time I thought Hohner was the only harp worth owning. I quickly got tired of going through wood combs and went through my Golden Melody and Special 20 phases. As I remember I was blowing out the Special 20's faster than I could buy them. In about '84 I happened into a music store in Oxnard CA and bought my first Lee Oskar. I was sold on the volume, and quick action, but mostly it was the replaceable reed plates. I have 22 Lee Oskars in working order right now and several blown or clogged ones and some spare reeds. I have moved on to Suzuki Promasters now because they are almost as loud as the Lee Oskars and the tone & action is so sweet. I only have A, C & D in the Suzukis, but I have not noticed any of the above mentioned tuning problems though I might not. I also Have a Suzuki Tremolo SU-24 in A that has a really nice tone, but I just don't get much oportunity to use it.
Anyway, Suzuki has my vote this week. Hohner still gets my Chromatic dollar but I did once have a Koch I liked, but I got tired of hearing the blowing Koch jokes. The Suzuki chromatics are still a little out of my price range.
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2012 5:37 PM
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HarpNinja
2362 posts
Apr 24, 2012
6:08 PM
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File under FWIW...I just got an order from Hohner today. One was an A Sp20. I wouldn't hesitate to gig with it immediately.
The 3 draw bends popped, the blow bends were gig worthy, and the 4, 5, and 6 OBs were really solid. The best part? 7 overdraw was right there too!
The 8, 9, and 10 ODs were not even useable as passing notes, but the other bends were really really solid.
The 4 and 6 ods were sustainable with good tone and bendability. The 5 was ok for a passing note...a little thin for holding. The 7 OD was like the 5. Very impressive!
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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Gnarly
228 posts
Apr 24, 2012
6:35 PM
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I wouldn't expect to get overdraws from a stock harp priced under $50.
I also would not expect to play them in public 8)
@hvyj Thanks for your insight--I first tuned harps to just when a customer at Suzuki complained--I wound up tuning a set of Bluesmaster to just (at Daron's suggestion--after which he asked me to remind him never to suggest it again).
I recently went thru my stupid case of 40 harmonicas in various tunings and tried to make some of the more obvious thirds sound in tune with each other--
@Thievin'Heathen The Suzuki chroms are worth every penny, better buy one before the prices go up again.
The SCX models are a real bargain, and the Sirius line are GREAT harmonicas.
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bambootune
4 posts
Apr 25, 2012
12:51 PM
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Finally made my mind up after trying to decide between the SP20 and Promaster - just ordered the PROMASTER :)
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2012 1:09 PM
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groyster1
1863 posts
Apr 25, 2012
2:44 PM
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@bamboo
I have 1 promaster and 1 suzuki hammond which is far superior to the promaster
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Andy Ley
167 posts
Apr 26, 2012
4:28 AM
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@bambootune:
Be sure to come back and let us know how you get on with it.
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bambootune
5 posts
Apr 26, 2012
1:36 PM
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I received my Promaster today :) :)
It is very well built, feels solid in the hands and sounds wonderful when playing.
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laurent2015
135 posts
Apr 26, 2012
6:04 PM
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I own all of those specified above but bought 5 Hering Black Blues ( rather cheap harps) to try them, as a bet.
Maybe surprising, I always come back to them: strong all metal building, heavy in the hands and loudest sound compared to all others mentioned.
What's a real shame is the customer care service, but brasilian made is worth to try, unfortunately with some risks.
The Suzuki Bluesmaster are, above all others, the easiest in the mouth, I think.
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chicagopsych
2 posts
Apr 26, 2012
7:46 PM
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I have all the models you asked about and as a fellow newbie, I think there is no comparison between the Promaster and the others. Experienced players may like certain qualities of the special 20 more, but when it comes to producing consistent tone and bends from one who is still new, the Suzuki is far far easier to me. My wife always says that she thinks I'm getting better when I play the promaster : )
The Bluesmaster feels the best on my lips. My Special 20 with Turbo lids also feels good.
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SuperBee
243 posts
Apr 27, 2012
5:48 AM
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Just checking back to see how it's going. We're all in agreement then? Excellent...
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JInx
199 posts
Apr 29, 2012
8:26 AM
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@hvyi
"Personally, I've never understood why so many harp players want to play harps that have notes that are out of tune with the rest of the band just so they can sound more in tune with themselves when they play chords. this has never made sense to me."
For certain types of music, you have a point. But, a good roots or folk band will leave the 3rd to the lead player letting him/her make use of the beauty of a well tempered tuning. Many roots base guitar players make adjust the 3rd to the better sound as well.
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nacoran
5613 posts
Apr 29, 2012
11:09 AM
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" I only have A, C & D in the Suzukis, but I have not noticed any of the above mentioned tuning problems though I might not." Thievin' Heathen
Just in case you didn't know, tuning is a crazy complicated issue involving lots of math, particularly for pianos and our humble little harmonicas. Equal Tuning is mathematically perfect, in that the intervals between each note are the same. Just Tuning is mathematically perfect in that the waves produced by notes interact in certain way that is 'perfect' by a different set of criteria and the more notes you use it on the less it works for any of the notes. Compromise tries to split the difference. There are whole websites devoted to the debate over how to tune instruments. Of course the term compromise could actually apply to any tuning... they all compromise something (but that would be confusing)!
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Nate
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