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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Isaac, how's the Zoom G3?
Isaac, how's the Zoom G3?
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joshnat
180 posts
Jan 16, 2012
10:19 AM
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I ordered one today. I think you're the only one using it so far! I hope to replace my Pocket Pod and DI box with this for travel and jams...
Do you think the modeling is good enough for recording? The band is recording now, and bleed through is always a challenge.
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isaacullah
1736 posts
Jan 16, 2012
12:25 PM
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I know I've kept saying that I'm going to write a review, but every time I think I've fooled around with it enough to provide a thorough review, I find something new that it does! But I guess I can do a quick run down of the things I've discovered about it so far...
1) Amp Modeling. My RP155 had a great Bassman amp model, and I was initially a little dissapointed with the G3 because its Bassman amp model isn't quite as good as the RP155's is. However, I discovered that the Bassman amp model on the G3 ISN'T the one to use for harp. The amp sim to use on the G3 is its Fender Twin Reverb model. That model blows away any amplified sound I was ever able to get on the RP155 in the year and a half I owned it. The RP's best tones were to be found in it's Bassman and Champ models, but these just weren't as gutsy and rich as the Fender Twin Reverb model in the G3. And yes, I've compared all of them to the real thing (I've got a guitarist friend with a SERIOUS case of G.A.S, and owns pretty much all of the real deal amps you could imagine). Though neither the RP nor the G3 perfectly replicated the sound of the real thing, the Twin Reverb model of the G3 was the single amp model from either unit that sounded closest to the real thing. However, the RP's Bassman model sounded closer to the real deal than did the G3's Bassman model. I must say that I haven't fully explore all the amp models the G3 has to offer (but I definitely did so with the RP), so there may be more good sounds to be had here. However, the sound I found with the twin reverb model is so good that I've kinda just stopped there for now...
2) Reverbs. I use A LOT of reverbs in my patches. The RP units have excellent reverbs, and that is one of their very strong suites. I'd say that as a whole collection, the reverbs on the RP are better than those on the G3. However, the G3 has more reverbs, and it has one in particular that is the best modeled reverb I've ever heard: the HD reverb model. Just for that one effect alone, it's a great buy.
3) Delays. No question here at all, The G3 has a HUGE selection of EXCELLENT delays. I've really only experimented with a few of them (the more traditional ones), but there is a ridiculous amount of variety here. Stereo, ping pong, reverse, modulated, pitch, multi tap, etc. One of the things about the G3 I LOVE is that the reverbs, delays, and modulation effects can ALL sync to the current tempo if you've tapped one out. This INCLUDES using the looper and/or the drum machine in manual tap mode. That means that they will all sound "in time" with the current tempo when looping or playing with the drum machine, or if you've just set the tempo by tapping.
4) Pitch effect. The pitch effects on the G3 are about 300% better than those on the RP units. They track better, sound richer, and offer more variety. For example, there is an octave effect that gives you BOTH 1 AND 2 octaves down (as well as clean throughput). My RP could only give you 1 OR 2 down. These are great for looping basslines, however, it also has a synth bass effect too, that I think gives much more ballsy bassline effects, and I've found that I really use that one a lot.
5) Modulation effects. There is a ridiculous amount of these to choose from, and they all sound great. I LOVE the sequence filter! I also love the auto-wha, and the Z-Organ. That last one really does a GREAT organ sound, with good Doppler (leslie) and great octave sounds. I've dialled in a good chorus sound too, but there are a huge number to choose from, so this is one area that I'm totally still experimenting with.
6) Drum machine. This is awesome! The G3's drum machine is infinitely more useful and usable than that in the RP. Mainly because it has dedicated buttons, and is EASY TO ACCESS. Not only that, but it CAN BE USED WITH THE LOOPER, which CANNOT be done with the RP155. Not only that, but the looper quantises to the drum machine, which means that loops will always be in time with the bars of the drum machine. You can start and stop the drum machine independently of the looper too, which is great for live performance. Finally, the drum sounds are good, and there is a sufficiently wide library of drum patterns to find something that fits with what you want to play.
7) The Looper. Okay, so this is the heart of the matter for me. The G3's looper is excellent, and beats the looper in the RP155, hands down. I also think it is much easier to use than the dedicated single-button loopers like the Jamman solo or the BOSS RC2 because it has two button functionality. Thus, there are a dedicated stop and play buttons that work with a simple press (rather than a press and hold). It has a good loop length (40 seconds), so you can definitely develop a whole 12 bar loop if you want, and there are a variety of ways that it can stop the loop: stop dead, stop at the end of the loop, or fade out. I love the fade out option. One of the things I also like about it is that you can choose to enable an undo/redo function, at the expense of some looping time (cuts it in half to 20 seconds, which IMO is still plenty of time). This means that you can use it like it has TWO loops. i.e., first: loop a beat, and a bassline. Then overdub a little melody. Then you can "undo" the melody, and play a solo. Then at the end, you can "redo" the melody, and it's back! The only problem with this is that the undo/redo function requires holding the "play" button down for 1 second, making it kinda hard to do in time to the beat. Hopefully, they'll make this assignable to the external extension pedal in a future firmware update. So basically, the looper is extremely functional, and does NOT feel like "just an add on", like the one in the RP155 does. It does not have all the functionality of a fully dedicated multi-button looper like the boomerang or the RC50, but it does have many of the functions of the middle range loopers like the RC20 and the jamman stereo.
8) Usability. There is simply NO contest here. The G3 is about 1000% more user friendly than are the RP units. It gives you the best of both worlds: The ability to save preset patches, but also the fact that all the effects/models in the patches are individually and instantly editable via dedicated knobs. Setting up the effects is EXACTLY like doing it on a real pedal. Every thing you do is automatically saved by the G3, so there is no need to "save" after diddling the dials. Moving and renaming presets is also dead easy, and the fact that you can give the presets real names (eg. you can write "Bassman with Reverb") is a HUGE help for changing patches on the fly, since you don't have to remember any code-names or the number of the patch. There is a software interface, but I haven't used it because it's so easy to set the unit up manually. On the contrary, I almost never tried to manually fool with my RP155, because the interface sucked so much.
Finally, the thing is powered by 4 AA batteries (I use NiMh rechargeables), and lasts for hours. You can also plug it in with the included adapter, and it draws power from your computer when attached via USB. USB integration is plug and play, and thus makes it super easy to record to your computer using whatever software you like. Additionally, the headphone output is good and plenty loud, and there is an option to do balanced out straight to the mixing board. I tested this out with a friends PA, and it works like a charm. There are also quite a few output modes for connecting to different types of amp inputs, and I've fooled around with these enough to know that it helps a great deal. Basically these are digital impedance matching transformers for different applications.
I paid about $175 US, using several coupons on Cyber Monday at the Guitar Center website. I don't think that there is currently a better buy out there for either a multieffects pedal, and amp modeler, or a simple looper. But to get ALL THREE for that price is simply amazing. I'm totally and completely happy with this purchase, and will be selling off all my other gear.
I am now using a Behringer XM8500 mic (which I also love), the G3, and a 20 watt battery-powered clean combo PA or the Pyp PB1 stealth battery amp. Some sound samples of this set up can be heard in the 5 latest videos of me busking last week on my youtube channel (link in my signature below), but am planning on making some real demonstration videos in the near future. I'll be happy to take requests for demonstrating specific features of the G3 or any other part of my rig.
I hope that this review is useful for you!
Cheers,
Isaac
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== I S A A C ==
View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
Last Edited by on Jan 16, 2012 1:45 PM
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tookatooka
2643 posts
Jan 16, 2012
1:17 PM
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Excellent detailed and informative review there Isaac.
I wasn't even aware of the Zoom G3 but now I've read your description and experiences with it, I want one.
Wish all reviews were as well thought out as that.
While I'm here Isaac have you seen this guy on YT with his elctro-busking? http://youtu.be/EU8UpmxZi9s Weird or what?
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Last Edited by on Jan 16, 2012 1:23 PM
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isaacullah
1737 posts
Jan 16, 2012
1:57 PM
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Thanks Tooka! Wow, that guy has a battery operated analog modular synth! Looks like it might be one of those synth kits from the "Music from outer space" site! Very cool!
@joshnat: I just realized that I hadn't directly answered your specific question! My answer would be a resounding YES. This unit will be great for studio work. While its models don't EXACTLY replicate the sound of the particular amplifier they attempt to model, IMO, the amplified tones produced are definitely AS GOOD of an amplified tone as you could ever hope for. IMO, it's better to think of the amp models not as reconstructions of classic tones, but as new unique sounds that were developed perhaps with particular classic characteristic tones in mind. Thus, the tone produced may not be that of a particular amplifier, but it is true amplified tone, and not some digital-ish sounding reproduction. While someone listening to your album may not be able to distinguish WHICH particular amp you were using (the amp model you chose), there is no way that they would know that you were not using a real amp.
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== I S A A C ==
View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
Last Edited by on Jan 16, 2012 1:59 PM
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joshnat
181 posts
Jan 16, 2012
2:02 PM
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Thanks, Isaac! I really like the Champ sims on the RP and the Tweed Deluxe on the Pocket POD. Have you tried the Tremolux on the G3 yet? It sounds promising. Regarding the Twin sim, are you able to drive it into distortion without losing the richness of the tone? A real Twin has always seemed to me to be the ultimate clean amp, perfect for Jazz, but to get a bit of crunch you really have to drive it. Hopefully that can be done reasonably on the G3.
Let me know if you get a chance to try the Tremolux!
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isaacullah
1738 posts
Jan 16, 2012
2:08 PM
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@joshnat: I haven't tried the tremolux yet, but you've peaked my curiosity, so I'll definitely give it a go next time I get a chance... The cool thing about amp modelers, is that, just like distortion pedals, you have full control over the signal level leaving them. That is, you can drive the whole amp sim into crazy distorted tones, but attenuate the output so you don't get huge volume levels or huge feedback troubles. You just have to make sure you balance all the levels properly. So yeah, you can get an amazing amplified tone out of the twin reverb model at volumes you can handle, and so which you could never achieve with the real thing... It's one of the perks of these kinds of modeling pedals! :)
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== I S A A C ==
View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
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mr_so&so
489 posts
Jan 17, 2012
9:49 AM
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Thanks for the review Isaac. I've had my eye on one of these for a while, but hadn't hear of anyone using it for harp until now. I'll have to see if I can find a deal here in Canada.
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joshnat
182 posts
Jan 17, 2012
10:08 AM
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Don't know about Canada, but I got mine at Musician's Friend with a 10% off coupon, free shipping and no sales tax.
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HarpNinja
2081 posts
Jan 17, 2012
4:48 PM
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Can you set up the three patches with totally different parameters and toggle?
Like one for a good beatbox sound (clean w/ reverb), one for harmonica (dirty w/ delay), and one for bass?
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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isaacullah
1740 posts
Jan 18, 2012
9:50 AM
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Thanks guys, glad you've found it useful!
@harpninja: Sure! Patches in the G3 are any combo of three fx (including the amp sims). You can toggle through patches with some dedicated pushbuttons (or enter into a patch-shifting mode with the footswitches), and can shift to a new patch instantly. But unlike the RP units, you can independantly turn on/off each of the 3 fx in each patch. The unit remembers which of the fx were on or off too, so whatever you left it like, that's the way it stays next time you shift back to that patch.
btw, the dedicated patch-shifting pushbuttons work while in looper mode, so if you've organized your patches correctly, you don't even have to shift out of looper mode to switch patches. If you want to mess with parameters, and turn on/off individual effects, you do have to leave looper mode, however. But that's really easy to do.
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== I S A A C ==
View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
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HarpNinja
2083 posts
Jan 18, 2012
9:55 AM
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I am torn between the G3 and a POD HD. The POD HD has a lot of extra options and could be used as a recording interface, which would be sweet.
I know the G3 can do a lot of that stuff too, but the POD stuff is so highly recommended! Too much to think about!
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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KeithE
192 posts
Jan 18, 2012
9:56 AM
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>But unlike the RP units, you can independantly turn on/off each of the 3 fx in each patch
Issac - I've never used this (I should get back into it), but from the RP355 manual:
"The RP355 includes a very convenient Stompbox Footswitch mode, where the Up, Down, and
Amp A-B footswitches function as on/off switches for the Distortion, Chorus/FX and Delay effects.
To enable Stompbox Footswitch mode, follow these steps:
From the preset display, press the UP and AMP A-B footswitches simultaneously. The display will
read STOMP briefly indicating Stompbox footswitch mode has been enabled. The DOWN, UP,
and AMP A-B footswitches will now turn Distortion, Chorus/FX, and Delay effects respectively
on and off in the current preset. Note: While Stompbox footswitch mode is active, you cannot
navigate through the RP355’s presets, nor can you change the Amp A/B channels in the current
preset.
To exit Stompbox footswitch mode and return to Preset footswitch mode, press the UP and
AMP A-B footswitches simultaneously again. The display will read PRESET briefly indicating
Preset footswitch mode is now active again."
If I didn't already have an RP355 I would look into the G3 based on your writeup.
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HarpNinja
2084 posts
Jan 18, 2012
10:47 AM
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I've heard there are some warble and latency issues with the pitch shifting effects. That latency piece killed using the POG stuff for bass lines. Even with correctly timed loops, the bass lines would sound out of time.
This may be harder to pick up if you are continually adding overdubs to one loop (like with the G3 looper), but I use almost entirely independent loops (different lengths of time, but multiples of a slave loop).
Have you had any issues with that?
FWIW, the pitch shifting on the Line 6 stuff doesn't have latency issues. Neither does a Boss OC-2 or Danelectro Chili Dog.
I really like that all these units let you record via USB. Well, I think I do. I've tried many times to record from my rig to computer, but I always have problems with the bass creating a sort of high pitched artifact. I wonder if these units are better suited for that?
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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isaacullah
1741 posts
Jan 18, 2012
11:01 AM
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@HarpNinja: Tough choice! I've never used any of the POD pedals, but they certainly do come highly regarded... I CAN say that the USB interface of the G3 is very nice. You have very good control over the mix, and it integrates well with DAW software (I use Linux, so I've been using Ardour, Jokosher, and Audacity). Additionally, the G3 has a balanced XLR out which can be used in combo with the stereo TRS outputs for easy integration to analog mixers/recording interfaces. With the XLR out, you can flip a switch for clean throughput or post effects output.
@KeithE: That's quite interesting! I actually didn't know that at all... I have a 155, which can't do that... Personally, I think that that is a really vital option to have in order to make these multifx pedals fully useful for live performance, or at least they kind of live performance that I do...
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== I S A A C ==
View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
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HarpNinja
2085 posts
Jan 18, 2012
11:27 AM
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On the POD HD500 you can pan patches and use stereo outs. So you could have your beatboxing and lead parts centered, but pan some of the bass and rhythm stuff.
The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on the HD500 now is the size. The smaller HD400 and HD300 don't have the stereo effects like that. The G3 looks very interesting, and could do everything else I am thinking of other than the panning.
I need to think through the effort it will take to use a rig like this when I use a house PA, but as I only use 2-3 channels now, it seems like a pretty easy move to go stereo FOH.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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KeithE
193 posts
Jan 18, 2012
11:27 AM
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Issac - another thing that I haven't tried is to plug an RP into an iPad/iPhone running GarageBand and see if that works. There's a Digitech page describing this:
Connecting RP to iPad
It would make more sense if the RP could run on batteries.
They say iPad, but I'm wondering if there's any chance of an iPhone support this now that GarageBand runs on it?
Do you think that the Zoom also support this? Maybe it comes for "free" if the device uses a standard audio usb class?
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isaacullah
1742 posts
Jan 18, 2012
12:45 PM
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@KeithE: That's a very interesting question! I don't own an I-phone or an I-pad (or any smart phone or tablet), so I can't check that for you, but since the G3 just "works" with my computer (I use linux), I assume that it is a driver-less usb audio card. Or at least it complies with the standards fro usb audio transfer. Thus, it might "just work" with a tablet or smart phone... But like I said, I can't confirm it... But yes, the battery power for the G3 is one of it's BIG advantages over the RP's. A battery powered G3, and some cool apps for an i-phone would make a SWEET portable rig!
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== I S A A C ==
View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
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Libertad
19 posts
Jan 18, 2012
1:44 PM
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I have just received a G3 today. My first impressions are very positive. Out of the box it is very intuitive to use. I have a fair bit of experience with other effects and synths some with user interfaces that were a complete pain in the neck to use. Within a few seconds of powering up the G3 I was flicking through the patches. Some of the delays and reverbs are definately keepers out of the box. I am feeding into a Tube amp so I haven't spent much time with amp simulations I plan to try this at the weekend, with a neutral keyboard amp.
I have previously tried a pocket pod with the Harmonica, which has been fun, but this takes things to a new level. I sold a Line 6 DL4 loop pedal to pay for the G3. The looper on the G3 is so much better and has a longer Loop time! I actually made a profit on the deal!
As I find out more I will report back. Martin
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oldwailer
1829 posts
Jan 18, 2012
5:08 PM
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That's a great review, Isaac. I have been looking at these things for a while now.
Is it possible to use something like the G3 with two or even 3 inputs--like maybe put a guitar and a vocal/harp mic into a little mixer--then into the G3--then into a PA or portable amp?
It would be really cool to be able to lay down a nice Peavey Vintage guitar track with a drum track going into the looper--then loop a really nasty harp comp over that--then maybe come in with the vocal on top of the whole mess--but I'd want to do that in real time, while performing.
And I'd also need to have this rig be very portable to go out onto the street--set-up and take down as fast as possible with minimal screwing around with a throng of cables and all that shit.
If this is a stupid question, that's because I haven't really wrapped my head around the looping idea yet--I think the rig I really want either doesn't exist or it's way too much money. . .
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Oldwailer's Web Site
Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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isaacullah
1744 posts
Jan 18, 2012
7:30 PM
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Ray: Yeah, you could most certainly do that. You would definitely need an external mixer because there is only one input (1/4"). I use a little two channel passive mixer I built myself. The best way to ensure good sound is to make a patch (or two) tailored to your guitar tone, use those to lay down the base loop, then switch to a patch you've set up for harp tone, and solo over it (or layer an overdub or two on the loop). These kind of pedals are certainly a lean and flexible option for us street performers! Beats lugging a dedicated guitar amp AND a dedicated harp amp PLUS any fx pedals you'd want to use!
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== I S A A C ==
View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
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oldwailer
1830 posts
Jan 21, 2012
6:23 PM
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Thanks, Isaac--I've been out of power and Internet connection for a few days--so I'm just now catching up with things.
I think my ideal rig is pretty well settled--the G3 and a Crate TX 15 amp--with a little Behringer mixer I already have. I still want to try out the amp at a GC first--it seems like I used one a couple of years ago and didn't like it--but I don't remember why. This stuff should all fit nicely into a box on wheels--strap the guitar to my back and I'm off!
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Oldwailer's Web Site
Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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