wade schuman
3 posts
Dec 13, 2011
4:05 PM
|
Hey folks, I have a question... is there a way to mod a "custom" Vibrolux Reverb-Amp for harp? the problem is that I use it for BOTH guitar and harp. The bright channel is great for guitar (I use an old lute guitar with a De Armand pickup) but the regular channel has that awful high end that really sounds dreadful for harp. The thing is, I like a cleaner sound then most harp players. I use an EV10 with a Sansom Wireless through the EH HOG Octave peddle... this sounds fine with the octave peddle, very organ like and nice, I just somehow need to cut the high end of this one channel so that the direct harmonica clean sound is not so piercing...
any thoughts? thanks in advance!
best
~wade of Hazmat Modine
|
Cristal Lecter
201 posts
Dec 13, 2011
4:28 PM
|
Wade,
You should contact Greg Heumann from Blowsmeway.com, if there's someone who can fix your issue this is him
|
tmf714
919 posts
Dec 13, 2011
4:29 PM
|
Welcome here Wade!!
Heres a few posts from harp-l-
Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to really fatten up the Vibrolux
Reissue. It's one of those reissues that really isn't close to the real
thing, it's more of a cosmetic reissue. I have a real 65 blackface
Vibrolux and have had some guitar buddies who have owned the RI and there
are quite a few differences all which aren't for the better. First, the RI
operates at much higher voltages and this attributes to the "thin" or "cold"
sound. It also uses a solid state rectifier and even worse, it's a board
mounted one, it can't be easily replaced with a tube rectifier without
extensive modification. Being of printed circuit board construction, it's
not the easiest amp to modify. Tube swaps may help a bit. As far as
pre-amp tubes, try 12AY7's or
5751's in both the first gain stage and reverb recovery positions. If
feedback is an issue try a 12AU7 instead in the reverb recovery position.
For power tubes you really have two choices: 6L6GC type (large bottle) or a
6L6WGB/5881 type (small bottle). The GC type has more headroom and better
bass response the WGB type is a bit more midrangy and will break up and
compress a little easier. In my Vibrolux I prefer the GC type, but like I
said earlier the real 65 is much different beast and I think a WGB maybe a
better choice in your situation. In my silverface Super I prefer the WGB
type of tube, likely due to the better bass response of the 4x10 cab and the
higher operating voltages of the silverface transformer.
Not to burst your bubble, but if you like the sound and design of the
Vibrolux you maybe better off selling the reissue and looking for a decent
used vintage Vibrolux Reverb. A real blackface will run around $1500 but
I've seen decent silvers running around $600-$700. Figure on a bit more to
service it or modify it for harp. Depending on what needed to be done, I'd
charge from around $100-$200 for a service, mod, and cap job if necessary.
You could conceivably mod the RI Vibrolux with a point to point board, and a
tube rectifier simulator such as the Weber Copper Cap or THD, but you're
talking quite a bit of work here. The silvers are much more like the
vintage blackfaces than the reissues are, point to point wiring and tube
rectifier. The real
difference between the BF and SF Vibrolux is the much higher operating
voltages coming off of the power transformer on the SF. During the CBS
silverface era, I think Fender to save costs used the same tranny as in the
Super/Pro/Bandmaster amps. During the pre-CBS blackface years they used a
different transformer on the Vibrolux Reverb that ran at much lower
voltages. One of the reasons the BF Vibrolux is so valued. In fact the
plate voltages on a BF Vibrolux is low enough that they can be easily
modified to run on 6V6 tubes, a cool mod to use on a BF Vibrolux. There are
some other differences between the BF and SF, the bias supply and phase
inverter circuit but these are pretty easy mods.
Regards,
Don D.
And from dirty south blues harp forum-
I'm not sure about the Bassman, but on my Vibroverb, V1 is the preamp tube for the normal channel only and V2 is for the Bright channel only.
I sub V1 for a 12AY7 and play harp through the normal channel. V2 is a 12AX7, and the guitar goes through the Bright channel totally unaffected.
Try it.
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2011 4:35 PM
|
wade schuman
4 posts
Dec 13, 2011
4:53 PM
|
Woof! that is a LOT of info! thanks so much!
l actually did try a lot of BF SF real Vintage Vibrolux amps of both ilk and none of them rocked my boat either... This thing actually sounds pretty good, and I like that it's an amp I don't have to worry about..it's just that high end part on that one channel I want to remove. I like a cleaner sound then most harp players... But it's just too piercing...
To make it simple, what would be the number ONE Mod you would suggest for just this issue?
As far as OTHER amps I am up for any amp that works for both instruments!
For years I used a Gibson 185 made in 1940, great for harp but not for guitar with this band...I have a real 59 Bassman that Joe Filisko lent me and it works great, but I just can't carry it up those damn steps anymore...I am no spring chicken...I am a creaky middle aged chicken, so I need something that is not too heavy and can work for guitar and harp and that is loud enough for an eight piece band with a horn section... something that sounds good with the HOG (which means a lot of low end and clean) and that is not too too ugly...
Finally having two separate channels is important so I am not screwing around with fiddly knobs in the dark and can switch back and forth between instruments pretty quickly...
Any thoughts?
I am not particularly brand/style/vintage loyal, I just need the right thing for the job(s)...
and thanks again!
|
jimr
30 posts
Dec 13, 2011
5:41 PM
|
The two channels share the a lot of the circuit so the potential to change just one channel is limited. I'd try placing a cap in parallel with the normal channel V1a plate resistor R4. Try a .0022 mfd cap, also perhaps a .01 mfd if still bright, or a .001 mfd cap if not enough highs. Would also consider changing cap c18 to .05 mfd. This will increase the low end of both channels but this could be dealt with using the tone controls of the bright channel. I'd also try a 12AY7 in the V1 position.
Best-
Jim R
|
bharper
125 posts
Dec 13, 2011
7:40 PM
|
I've not had good luck getting harp tone from a Fender VRRI amp. A better dual-purpose amp would be a Fender Deluxe Reverb. Dan Treanor uses a Deluxe Reverb that has one channel modified for harp. It sounds quite good.
|
5F6H
1040 posts
Dec 14, 2011
2:51 AM
|
The Custom Vibrolux Reverb is not a "reissue of" any previous Fender. It's Bruce Zinky design/evolution of the old Vibrolux/Brown Super/Vibroverb circuits.
It lacks a "Negative Feedback Loop" Which all other 6L6 Tolex Fenders have (a tech can fit one fairly easily). This accounts for its relatively tight, punchy sound...some can find this a bit brittle. On the plus side, this does help it to cut with a band, of all the 2x10 Fenders this is probably the loudest amp they made. It will leave a Deluxe Reverb for dead for harp.
+1 on Jim's cap accross the plate resistor mod, +1 also for subbing out the V1 tube (farthest right looking at the back of the amp), 12AY7 & 5751 have been discussed (5751 could also/either go in V6, next to the power tubes, they are quite "soft" & warm sounding compared to 12AX7) but JJ's ECC823 might also be worth a try in V1? This is a "reversed" 12DW7 with the high gain triode on the input (the JJ ECC832 is a regular 12DW7 which may be too loose sounding). Changes at V1 won't affect the other channel, changes at V6 affect both channels.
If I was going to play harp & guitar through the same amp, I'd go for a 2 channel, each channel with own tone stack, 2x10" as there are more characteristics that lend themseves to getting the best from both instruments.
I'm not that keen on the fact that 2x10" can be hard to hear from the backline on stage, so either always have it on a crate/chair or stand in on one end (power transformer/pilot light to the floor).
----------
www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2011 2:53 AM
|
NiteCrawler .
147 posts
Dec 14, 2011
5:50 AM
|
Have you tried using any type of an eq pedal on that channel,perhaps a Lone Wolf Tone plus or an older 10 band MXR eq. Without going through any major mods perhaps this option might solve your problem.I know that these units will give you the option of knocking some of the high frequencys on that particular channel. Maybe someone you know has something like this so you can experiment before spending your $$ on one.Just a thought as they have worked for me on certain applications.
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2011 5:52 AM
|
tjtaylor
8 posts
Dec 14, 2011
9:51 AM
|
Wade, I would suggest a brown vibroverb reissue, they don't make them anymore but you still can find them around used. You may have to change the speakers because the two that originally came in them are awful. If you do that you can get a really nice, not too dirty harp sound in the normal channel, and a great guitar sound in the reverb side. It also has a very nice vibrato,almost as good as the original brown amps. By the way I love your playing, you would probably sound great through a shoe box. good luck, Tim
|
dougharps
133 posts
Dec 14, 2011
12:12 PM
|
NiteCrawler took the words out of my mouth. It sounds as though you already have the amp and like it for guitar. You just want to cut some highs.
You use a cleaner tone, so you may not need the LW Tone Plus. A clean EQ pedal would seem to be the simplest solution. Try it before and after the HOG to see which works best.
If you just want to experiment before investing in a good EQ pedal, the Danelectro Fish 'n Chips is a cheap and not bad 7 band EQ. You can buy a better one later if it works and you want something higher end.
----------
Doug S.
|
Greg Heumann
1375 posts
Dec 15, 2011
9:11 AM
|
Hi, Wade
Long time - hope all is well. Caught the "The Tide" video on Youtube Love it!
Me too - the EQ pedal was the first thing I thought off. That way you isolate to only the harp mic. But using the same amp for harp and guitar will always be a compromise.
----------
/Greg
|
wade schuman
5 posts
Dec 16, 2011
11:29 AM
|
Hey Greg! Hey everyone!
Thanks for all your suggestions and help...
I have turned my house upside down looking for the EQ that I have...
So far no luck it's hidden in the mountains of junk I have..But I will try and digest all the info above and it the EQ doesn't work will try some of your suggestions... your guys are wonderful and this is a great resource! thanks again!
~wade
|
