Hey all, i just wanted to ask you a pretty simple but yet, confusing question:
Why should we play in second position?
I mean- if my guitarist plays in the key of G, why shouldn't i just play the harmonica in the key of G? why using the harmonica in the key of C and play in second position?
It seems like i don't understand something very crucial in all this second position thing and i will be glad to finally understand it :)
It depends on whether you want to bend notes or not. And it also depends on what chord progressions you want to play. ---------- Andrew. ----------------------------------------- The only good cat is a stir-fried cat. (ALF)
"When you play 2nd position or cross harp, you are playing your "C"harp in the key of "G." The reason we play 2nd position is because now we can play harp with the accent on the draw notes, the notes that really wail. When you play cross harp, there are certain notes that won't make a mistake. In my long and varied harmonica career, I have heard them called "Safe Notes", "Harmonizing Notes", "Common Tones", "Target Notes", "Pedal Points." What you call them doesn't matter. Knowing where they are does."
These are the most directly applicable to the question at hand. However, the method of Meat and Potatoes is to build slowly, one idea at a time that would not make sense without the previous ideas. There are lots of direct references to this question throughout the 60 videos. There will be many more. But the indirect references are leading to a greater understanding of the question. I recommend starting at video number 1 and knowing that the full answer to this question will not show up until a much later video than my current last.
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2011 6:01 AM
This simplest way to answer this question is to try them both out. Lots of harp *is* played in first position: Jimmy Reed stuff, for example, or folky stuff like Dylan or Neil Young. Wolf played in first sometimes. First is good for playing blues up on the top end.
Getting comfortable on first on second (and beyond) makes you a better harp player and lets you choose which position you want for a particular song at a particular time.
for me the draw notes in playing 2nd position- also called cross harp- are very soulful notes that allow a deeper and more heart felt expression. it's been said that a harmonica is the closest instrument to the human voice, and for me bending notes helps make this true.
the minor G notes are found in the draws of a C harp. blues is a minor kind of music. but it goes farther. i have played 2nd position in a lot of genres of music simply because i can put more feeling into a harp part that way. once you find your way to bending draw notes and try 2nd it will become clear to you! ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
Doesn't it also depend upon what type of music the guitar player is playing? If he is playing "Home Home on the Range", other "Camp Fire" music or other folk tunes then first position is the way to go - is it not?
I play in the Praise Team band at my church and as much as I like playing the blues in second position, Contemporary Christian Music sounds better to me in first position. ---------- ">
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2011 12:17 PM
I'm not much of a theory guy, but I would think it's all about scales and types of music. Different types or "feel" of music require different moods or sounds. There are scales that address much of this and choosing the right notes requires also choosing the right scale. A guitar player playing happy tunes or "happy birthday" for example, may choose a straight up major scale. On the other hand one playing certain rock tunes with a blues base or playing blues would choose a pentatonic scale or a blues scale. Harp players happen to have a good and easy to get to blues scale in second position that doesn't have a lot of crazy bends.
On the diatonic harp many notes are not there so bends are needed or different positions to be able to find those notes or scales. Second position happens to have that bluesy sound. The blue notes.
@Florida-Trader.....right on. I play "Cowboy's Lament" and bugle calls in first position. Blues, rock and bluesy gospel in second for the most part. The Star Spangled Banner lies nicely in first position on a low-tuned harp, but I more often play it in second position to avoid "squeakiness" that is a detriment to the song, to my ear, anyway. Sometimes in blues or jazz I WANT some squeakiness. In the end, it's nice to have a variety of tools with which to work.
Rules are made to be broken but the general idea in a blues is to play the 'blue' notes ie the Flat third (or the quarter tone third) the flat fifth and the flat seventh. The third is an easy bend on the 3 hole draw the flat fifth is an easy bend on the 4 draw and the flat seventh is already there on draw 5. Because these (and the tonic note) are all draw notes you can literally 'wail' on them for that bluesy sound.
do country players like charlie mccoy play cross harp?sure sounds like it to me-to accompany guitarists it seems that second or third position work best even if you are not playing blues
Well a lot of answers that all says the same. If you want to play blues like its been played by the greats you need to play second position. Its the easiest way to play it for a beginner to get that blues feeling with bent notes. Soon, some of the more advanced members on this site will start trading post saying third, fifth or seventh position is a much better way to play blues. BUT second pos gets that bluesy recognisable sound.
OR you can play first pos blues like Jimmy Reed and Deford Baily (and others) and bend those blow bends that really bluesy too. But I take a guess that your not quite there yet?
Are you a fresh beginner? First instrument? Not solid in music theory? Don't know the intervals in the blues scale? Can't name which note you get from which hole on a c (or any) harp, natural bent or overdrawn?
If you have answered yes on two or more of those questions I recommend that you start watching Michael Rubins Meat and Potatoes from number one. I have. Do them parallel with what you watching/reading to help you with technique, like bends and stuff. It will really help you down the way.
There are several reasons why 2nd position lends itself to blues playing, several have already been mentioned here. The biggest one IMHO is what Jehosaphat mentioned about the "blue" notes.
The "blue third" as Adam often refers to it is possibly the most "bluesy" of all the notes. It is the 3draw bent to somewhere between the major and minor 3rd. This not is note available without bending, it is not one of the standard 12 notes we use in most western music and as so, cannot be accessed using a standard draw or blow note – or even a piano for that matter. This note is not available in 1st position playing as the major 3rd falls on a blow note (2blow) which cannot be bent down.
The note layout in 2nd position lends itself to blues playing for other reasons. For example the chords on the 123draw and 123blow give you the Root chord and the 4th chord respectively. This is very useful for rhythmic playing etc.
Again things like warbles and double stops also fall nicely in 2nd position.
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2011 5:14 AM
I guess i should have said, it is not available in the lower or middle octave without overblowing. It is indeed available in the upper octave on the 8blow bend.
Apologies for any confusion.
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2011 9:30 AM
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Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2011 12:17 PM