rbeetsme
425 posts
Sep 22, 2011
7:42 PM
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I can't find any information on these harps from the Hohner website. I am playing more minor tunes and prefer to play 2nd position. I know I can play 3rd position in a regular diatonic, and do, but I'd like to play 2nd. Example, I can play Minor Swing (Am) on a G harp in 3rd position or on my Lee Oskar Am harp (actually Dm) in 2nd position. I prefer to play 2nd but hate the LO. I think I want a Hohner MB harmonic minor in Dm to play the Am tune, but I can't find any info anywhere. LO lists their minors in cross position (thus the labelled Am is actually a Dm) but I've been told Hohner doesn't. I think the Natural Minor is a different animal yet. Does anyone know of a good source of information for this? My preference for harps lately has been the MB and Suzuki Promaster. Suzuki doesn't make a PM in minor. Not sure I like the tone of the Seydel stainless reeds so I'm looking at Hohner. Any help? Next, who sells MB in minor keys? The only vendor I can find online who list the MB minor is Harpdepot and those guys are notoriously unreliable so I won't even try there.
Last Edited by on Sep 22, 2011 7:45 PM
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nacoran
4660 posts
Sep 22, 2011
8:00 PM
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All I've got is a L.O. natural minor.
Remember though, Seydel has harps without steel reeds to. I like my Blues Favorite, but it's a low tuned harp so it's like comparing apples to pears (not quite as different as oranges). I know with their configurator feature you can see which holes are which notes.
Guitar Center has this description of minor tuned Sp20s.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Hohner-560-Special-20-Harmonica-Natural-Minor-Tuning-584356-i1502682.gc
edit: This post on Pat Missin's site seems to indicate that Hohner labels their minor harps the 'normal' way, not the way Lee Oskar does.
http://www.patmissin.com/tunings/tun6.html
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Nate
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Last Edited by on Sep 22, 2011 9:05 PM
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WinslowYerxa
60 posts
Sep 22, 2011
10:04 PM
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The harmonic minor is labeled in first position for both Lee Oskar and Hohner.
So an A harmonic minor would have a blow chord of A minor (A-C-E, etc.), while the G notes would be al G# and the F notes would all be F-natural. The draw chord would be an E7 chord with a flat 9 (the F-natural).
The guitar center blurb for the Marine Band Natural Minor quotes Steve Baker's harp Handbook: "The Harp Handbook, the Marine Band harmonica in Natural Minor tuning means that "all the 3rds in the blow and draw chords...are tuned a semitone lower than the Richter system, so that both blow and draw chords are minor...."
The blurb then goes on to state that "Natural minors are designed to be played in cross harp (draw), not straight harp (blow) style."
So a Hohner A natural minor, like a Lee oskar, would be like a D harp where both the D blow chord and A draw chord would be minor.
Last Edited by on Sep 22, 2011 10:09 PM
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nacoran
4662 posts
Sep 22, 2011
11:11 PM
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Lee Oskar's natural minors are labeled all over the place. Mine says 'N' on the left front, Fm on the right front, 1st Bbm(d.) on the left end and 2nd Fm(N) on the right end.
I understand why they did it that way, and if you have the harp in your hand it all makes sense, but it sure makes it hard for dyslexics to keep straight with how other brands do it.
So the take-away is Lee Oskar labels some of their minor harps (the harmonic ones) the normal 1st position way and the natural minors in 2nd position, and puts 1st and 2nd position on the different ends of the harps. It reminds me of a cartoon I saw recently that went something to the effect of-
Day 1-
Faced with 15 competing internet standards Carl decides to develop a universal internet standard.
Day 2-
There are 16 competing internet standards.
:)
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Nate
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Rick Shanks
111 posts
Sep 23, 2011
5:24 AM
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Regardless of your prefered brand, take a good look around at www.leeoskar.com - There is comprehensive info available there about(his} minor tunings. The notation layouts alone are a great resource and (once the key labelling differences are understood) the note layout charts apply to other brands equally well.
Basically Lee designed and introduced the Natural Minor to be played in second position so richter diatonic players who were comfortable in cross harp on a Major Diatonic could pick up a Nat. Minor and play their familiar cross harp licks over many minor chord progressions and sound good.
The Harmonic Minor tuning has been around a lot longer and has always been labelled in the first position key. Usually played in first pos. too as far as I'm aware.
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KiwiRick
http://www.richardshanksart.com
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MP
1841 posts
Sep 23, 2011
3:03 PM
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rbeets me,
at rockinronsmusic4less he has MB 1896s in about three natural minor keys.
also Special 20s in eleven natural minor keys.
as mentioned above, hohner lists keys in first pos.
you can't go wrong with rockinrons.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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orphan
73 posts
Sep 23, 2011
3:25 PM
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MP, if I understand you right, that means if I want to play in Am natural I would order a SP20 D natural minor to play in 2nd Pos? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question after all explanations given above.
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MP
1842 posts
Sep 23, 2011
3:57 PM
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not a dumb question at all. a Hohner D natural minor will give you A natural minor in sec pos. an A natural minor will give you E natural minor in sec pos.
just select as if they were major key harps and you are thinking in terms of sec pos.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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orphan
74 posts
Sep 23, 2011
4:34 PM
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Thanks MP. I have had LO natural minors for along time. I like the set up but they are so leaky compared to SP20s and GMs. I tried embossing the plates but couldn't get the brass to move. The SP20s sound like my best option. My gigging harps are all SP20s and I can tweak them with more success than I had with the LOs.
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WinslowYerxa
62 posts
Sep 23, 2011
11:38 PM
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Oops, I got it wrong.
Hohner natural minors are indeed labeled in the first position key. They give you the natural minor in the second position key just as the LO do.
So to play in A natural minor, you'd buy:
-- Hohner in D (natural minor). (If you play it in D you'll get a Dorian scale).
-- Lee Oskar in A.
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2011 9:45 AM
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mercedesrules
105 posts
Sep 24, 2011
8:23 AM
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....."Hohner Natural Minor harmonicas are labelled in the standard key - so if you are playing a song in A minor, you will need a Hohner harmonica in D minor."
Sheehans
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orphan
76 posts
Sep 24, 2011
10:19 AM
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@MP, WinslowYerxa, mercedesrules
It doesn't seem that Winslow is saying what you said, or am I just not understanding?
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MP
1843 posts
Sep 24, 2011
12:45 PM
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we are all saying the same thing. except for the minor:)mistake in winslows first post
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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orphan
77 posts
Sep 24, 2011
3:49 PM
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My thanks to each and all for this "minor issue". Must contact Rockin Ron's and order a tin sandwich to go!
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