On another post titled "Pre MS Hohner Pro Harp" started by wheezer the thread went off on a tangent about getting cover plates powder coated. The powder coat idea is not getting a lot of play because probably nobody would think to look there so I thought I would start a separate thread on the subject.
Here's the gist. Several people (including me) have expressed an interest in getting cover plates powder coated. The reasons range from: 1. looks 2. creating a color coded key system 3. possible affects on the tone of the harp
I'm not interested in debating the why part. I'm interested in talking about the how part. As some of you know, I build replacement combs. I can make a comb out of a piece of wood or a sheet of acrylic, but powder coating a cover plate requires the actual plate. I have looked into powder coating and it is something you can do-it-yourself using nothing more than the powder coat powder and a toaster oven. Personally, I would rather have it done by someone who knows what they are doing. The cost of having something professionally powder coated is pretty reasonable - if you have enough cover plates to work with and spread the cost out over 100 or so plates. I have been accumulating harps and can easily contribute 30-40 cover plates (15-20 harps) to the project. If anyone else is interested I would be happy to coordinate the project. You would have to ship the cover plates to me and then I would have them coated and shipped back to you. My first estimate would be something in the $5-6 per plate range + your shipping costs (which would probably be less than $2.00 if you only do a couple of harps and not more than $5.00 since you can stuff a bunch of them into a small flat rate priority mail box for $5.00).
I've done this before and there are some issues you might want to keep in mind. First and foremost the cover plates are going to need to be bead blasted in order to get the powder to stick well to them. In all of my experiments every place where there was a bend in the cover plates the powder would thin out and leave a spot where you could see the metal beneath. So bead blasting the cover plates should help to alleviate this since the roughed up surface will give the powder something to bond to, or rather grab a hold of on those areas. If you're going to want to coat the inside and outside of the coverplates you'll have to hold them vertically while coating and during baking, which again increases the chance that you're going to have thin spots in the coating as it cures because gravity is going to try and pull it away from those areas when it's in a liquid or molten state.
I don't say any of that to discourage you, just to let you know of a few issues that you might run into when doing this.
Thanks for the tips Chris. Someone mentioned that you used to offer this service but no longer do so. I would welcome any information you would like to share. The issues you raise are the exact reasons why I would prefer to have it professionally done. They have the tools; they have the experience; they've already made all the mistakes. The powder coat guys I have spoken with talked to me about etching the plates to make sure the powder adheres. I'm not sure it's is done with bead blasting, sand blasting or chemically. But like I said, I'll let the professionals handle that.
I used to powdercoat mic shells, but I never offered cover plates. I finally quit doing powder coating as a service because it can be a pain in the backside. Now I only use it on my neck rack parts, and other personal projects.
@ florida-trader,. May I suggest you take maybe A C G harps apart ,.have the cover plates powder coated an see if the tone changes once done ?
When they talk about etching the plates to make sure the powder adheres,.more than likely they are talking about a chemical bath,.as the Big 3 puts all cars an trucks through a chemical bath to make sure the paint adheres. ---------- Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
One thing I can count on is getting great input and feedback from you guys. And I mean that with all sincerity. I will definitely discuss the method of preparation with the powder coat guy and report back to you his preferences and why.
Color is one of the options that needs to be discussed. I am hopeful that I can give you a few choices so you can have multiple colors - whatever your reason.
Big Daddy. The $5.00 is a guestimate and that would be per cover plate. I can see that I need to have a sit down with the powder coat guy and get some more specific information. I will endeavor to do so ASAP and report back before the thread goes stale.
Florida-T, your #2 Idea was what I been telling alot of people about color coding harps. Tools, electrical wire, Guitar strings, and lots of things are color coded. I figured Hohner would've been the first, but nobody I've seen, color codes harmonica's. Especially since combs are in any color you want now.
Rockerduck, of course the next question is what code do you use? I always get lazy and leave my harps in the box lowest to highest, but when I'm trying to key a song having them arranged by circle of fifths is much more useful. I think it would be nice if you could go into a harp shop and pick a model, pick a comb, a plate set and some covers, all separately, and walk out the door with a harp that looks just like you want it. Obviously you'd have to pick parts that fit together, but those could all be kept in the same part of the display case. If they could do etching that would be even better. Harps with nails would be harder, since once the reeds and the comb are together you need a lot more stock to be able to mix and match. Of course I'm not sure I live in a town big enough to support a shop like that, but in big cities I bet you could make your shop really stand out.
Have any of you comb makers gone to local music shops and seen if they want to stock combs? (Or custom covers?)
I was thinking that major brand makers of harmonica's would've already standardized a color code. For instance, most sell whole sets in a case. Go buy a set of nut drivers and they are color coded. Yellow is always 5/16ths. Blue is 3/8ths. I know everybody has picked up the wrong harmonica before and even played it upside down. Can't they make an easy heads or tails. Rough texture and smooth texture. If the smooth side is always up, a blind man would never play it upside down.
OK Gentlemen, I’ve done my research and am here to report my findings. I will apologize up front because this is going to be a long post, but I am trying to give complete information and answer all your questions.
I had an in-depth conversation with the commercial metalworking and powder coat company I will use assuming this project gets off the ground. I will start by telling you that I am very encouraged.
First let’s solve the riddle about prepping the cover plates. The cover plates will go through an eight step process as follows: 1. Degreasing 2. Cleaning with a solvent/detergent 3. Liquid etching with a citrus based acid 4. Degreasing 5. Clean Water Rinse using reverse osmosis purified water 6. Baking. The baking will get rid of any liquid that has seeped into the pores and will also highlight any impurities that might be present on the surface of the cover plates 7. Spray Coating. After cooling they will spray coated with the powder. 8. Baking.
A couple of notes: If there is surface rust, it would be best to remove it prior to putting it through the above preparation. Rust can be removed via steel wood, sand paper or even with WD40 as the degreasing steps will remove any residual oils left behind. Also, when the powder coat is subjected to heat, it melts and will run into any crevices so the issue of whether or not all the nooks and crannies inside to cover plates should be moot.
So on to the next subject – how to price this out. This is not a precise science. Why? Because the way these guys work is they have a minimum charge to run a batch. Let’s say for example it is $100. That means if I give him 2 cover plates to powder coat, it is $100 (or $50 per plate). If I give him 50 cover plates to do it is still $100 (or $2.00 per plate). Obviously, it makes sense to do as many parts as possible in the same batch to lower the cost per part. That said, the disadvantage is that every part in a given batch has to be the same color and I know that one of the primary reasons some of you guys are interested in this is to color code your harps. Plus, having all the cover plates the same color would be boring. But there is a work around for that too. My contact is willing to work with me to do smaller batches in consideration for the volume of business I would give him plus he would also be willing to run a few pieces at a time whenever he is doing a batch for another customer. For example, let’s say he is painting some motorcycle parts candy apple red. He can put some cover plates through the prep process right along with the motorcycle parts and do them at the same time. This would give us access to a wider varieties of color without drastically increasing the cost. Is this too much information?
At any rate, I will tell you right now that I will commit to doing a batch on my own if nobody else is interested. I can easily provide 40-50 cover plates. Then I can list them on eBay like I do with combs and price them accordingly. I can charge one price if you just want to buy the cover plates and another price if you want to trade in your cover plates in exchange for powder coated plates - like trading in soda bottles. Anyone who wants to piggyback on this endeavor is welcome to do so. It is a safe bet that you will get it done cheaper that way than if you buy them off an eBay listing.
I am comfortable with a $5.00 per plate ($10 per harp) price (+ shipping). I think I can get it done and have it be worth my time and effort to coordinate this project. If you think I’ll be getting rich off a $5.00 cover plate and $14.95 combs, think again. This is more a labor of love than anything else. Everyone on this forum, in their own way, contributes to the greater good of the harmonica community and I think most will agree that it’s a beautiful thing we have going here. This is my way of doing my part.
So here is the call to action. If you are interested, email me directly at harpcombs@yahoo.com. Tell me how many combs you want to have done. I will be assembling the information and will communicate directly with you about the color options and where to ship the cover plates.
I’m sure more questions will pop up and I will address them as we go.
@Stevelegh,."All I can see from powder coat is 'tone killer'". My point in above post: "@ florida-trader,. May I suggest you take maybe A C G harps apart ,.have the cover plates powder coated an see if the tone changes once done ?"
There has to be a reason Brand Name Harp Companies & even the Cheap Harp Companies don't powdercoat there cover plates,. Stainless steel & Chrome Plated cover plates cost more to make I would think ,..the Companies would save thousands by stamping out cheap steel cover plates & powder-coating them ,.. I would think the coating would deaden the tone ? ---------- Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
Last Edited by on Jul 28, 2011 1:31 PM
I like to restore vintage motorcycles. I've had many things powder coated over the years. What I do is call up (or drop by)a local powder coating company and see who there main clients are, and what they get powder coated. The last place I used to powder coat does a lot of John Deer parts in a "John Deer Black". This color worked out great for some wheels, spokes, nipples and handlebars I needed done. I found out what day of the week they do the John Deer stuff, strung up my parts, brought them in the day before, and they ran them with the John Deer parts. Doing this way can save you quite a bit of money. I got everythimg mentioned above done for $40. It would be easy to string up cover plates and they are small so you could probably get a bunch of them done for next to nothing. You can also try to find a local DIY media blasting company where you can go in and rent a booth to blast your cover plates. ----------
If you play Special 20's and want to color code your "weapons", just pick up a few different color plastic harmonicas from Hohner (they are cheap), and swap out the combs. You do have to drill one hole in the middle of the front to make them completely compatible tho.
I buy different sets of harmonicas and put them together. A- Lee O G- Hohner Pro harp C- Hohner Crossover D- Golden Melody E- Suzuki Manji F- Herring Black Of course I have several Spl.20' and LO's, and others. I kinda like the tone of the Pro Harp's. The Crossover is the top price one and its Great O.O.T.B.. In fact,I play all my harps out of the box. Some are just better.
Different harps for each key. Just wondered why no color coding has been done.
