HarpNinja
1536 posts
Jul 27, 2011
9:04 AM
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New production Marine Bands now have sealed combs. They still have nails.
You can get them in popular keys direct from Hohner immediately and they do not cost more than before. I picked up an A and Bb for myself today.
I did get my first two Thunderbirds last week...LLF and LF. They are AMAZING harps OOTB. I didn't need to do any gapping, although, they are not really intended to overblow. I haven't even opened them up, in fact.
I know you can order a few keys direct from Hohner right now. I think they are $180 MSRP (or whatever that is) and have a street price - what you actually pay - around $125. I get a discount, so didn't ask the actual price.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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JInx
19 posts
Jul 27, 2011
9:51 AM
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you got a link for that?
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arzajac
592 posts
Jul 27, 2011
9:54 AM
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It would be interesting to know how airtight the new MBs with the sealed combs are.
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HarpNinja
1539 posts
Jul 27, 2011
11:05 AM
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http://hohnerusa.com/upload/links/l_00000798_HOHNER_Harmonicas_2011.pdf
I confirmed via email the following:
"The only change to the construction of the Marine Band is the sealed comb."
I then called them directly and confirmed the order of two SEALED 1896 Marine Bands.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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Blowyourbrassoff
27 posts
Jul 27, 2011
1:51 PM
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just an fyi, sealing a comb doesn't really make the harp more airtight, what's important is how flat the comb is.
Chris
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Miles Dewar
1028 posts
Jul 27, 2011
4:45 PM
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$125 for a Stock Marine Band!!!!
.....or is that for a few harps?
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Seven.Oh.Three.
122 posts
Jul 27, 2011
4:58 PM
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$125 is for the thunderbird....... Still a bit steep IMHO. But it is what it is.
7.o.3.
****** I should add that ive never paid one. Ever. Hell I've never even seen one in person. My "bit too steep" comment has nothing to do with how it plays or anything.....*******
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2011 5:01 PM
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HarpNinja
1540 posts
Jul 27, 2011
8:42 PM
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If you see my OP, I stated that the MB's with sealed combs do not cost more than those without.
I have to TBirds and they are both amazing. I only don't have more because I am trying to cut back on harp spending, lol. My intend was to do a LLF video today, but I can't turn down my computer mic to not distort. I will try and figure it out ASAP.
I was told that the new MB's with sealed combs are built to tighter tolerances and more consistent in how they play. They have a little more presence as a result.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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JInx
20 posts
Jul 27, 2011
8:44 PM
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I don't see no "available now" links here. This forum is so full of hype, it's really a turn off...if you ask me.
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nacoran
4392 posts
Jul 27, 2011
9:32 PM
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JInx, patience. :) I checked the Hohner site but they didn't have a link. Rockin' Rons mentions them and promises to post more news as soon as it becomes available. You could probably send an email straight to Hohner.
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Nate
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HarpNinja
1541 posts
Jul 28, 2011
5:26 AM
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CALL HOHNER DIRECTLY AS DESCRIBED IN MY ORIGINAL POST!
Two people try to jump right in with bad attitudes and both statements are clarified in my original post. My follow-up had a link to the pdf that describes the change to the combs. I even listed the page number.
THEY DO NOT COST MORE THAN PREVIOUS MARINE BAND 1896's.
YOU CAN GET THEM BY CALLING HOHNER DIRECTLY AND ASKING FOR THEM.
Phone: 804-591-3745
Email: harmonica@hohnerusa.com
Haters gonna hate. You know what I hate about this site? People who don't read or do any critical thinking before posting.
You won't see any "available now" links from Hohner. They aren't making a new model but rather tweaking an old one. They are phasing in a new comb over time. Only recent new production harps are going to have these combs. They aren't going to pull and burn the thousands of MB's out there while they make this change. That would be rather silly from a business standpoint.
***You know how I learned this and got my Thunderbirds with no wait time? I actually took the time to call and email the company. Granted, I am an endorser and have direct contact with Hohner, but I end up calling the same phone number everyone else does. In fact, when I ordered the MB's, my regular contact wasn't in and I talked to somebody that had no idea who I was. It wasn't until after I confirmed the order that I stated I was an endorser, etc. I too was skeptical about the availabilty of sealed MBs and the TBirds, so rather than blow smoke on the forum, I became a problem solver and went right to the horse's mouth.
I admit that the TBirds were purchased with some help from HR, but since ordering and posting, I know anyone can now get them as they have them at Hohner. When I asked about the MBs, it was totally no big deal. In fact, when I spoke to the service department, I was told that all their new MBs were sealed and are intermixed with the other 1896 harps. They knew which ones were sealed based on when they were shipped to them in VA. Any odd ball keys are still unsealed as they are only getting the sealed MB's as they replenish stock.
Therefore, one could safely assume that MOST music stores will have unsealed harps until they sell their stock and order more from Hohner. That being said, why wait for that when you can call the company and get them direct? I order harps on a pretty much weekly basis. I have gotten MBs with date codes from as far back as 2006-08 from retailers as well as Hohner this year. Until they are widely available, which is almost never compared to other music gear, the best way to get "new" stuff is to be proactive.
Finally, regarding the TBirds, I talked to three different people at Hohner about getting some the second they had them. Every time I asked, I was told the best way to get a hold of the hard to get stuff is to contact the service department frequently. I did. The thing is, although the shipping time isn't what it is with Rockin' Ron, every time I've ordered anything from Hohner, they have been awesome about communicating with me and following through. I see no reason to no go through them directly when possible.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Jul 28, 2011 6:35 AM
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joshnat
155 posts
Jul 28, 2011
7:19 AM
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Hey Mike, there have been rumors about changes to MBDX's as well. Any news on those, other than fully sealed combs?
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HarpNinja
1543 posts
Jul 28, 2011
7:24 AM
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No clue. I normally don't read the catalogue, but after seeing a post about the MB here, I just went right to that page. I can look into it, though. I am not sure that is something you'd get info on by just calling.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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joshnat
156 posts
Jul 28, 2011
7:36 AM
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This is what the catalog says about the MBDX:
•New improved cover design gives greater volume and stability while preventing reed rattle.
•Assembled with three reed plate screws and four cover screws to maximize airtightness and facilitate maintenance.
•New reed profiles ensure longer reed life and reduce breakage.
•The entire pearwood comb is triple-laquered, dramatically minimizing swelling and ensuring greater volume and faster response.
•Channel openings and reed plate edges rounded off for greater playing comfort.
•Sturdy neoprene zipper case allows moisture to evaporate while keeping
dust out. Practical elasticated loop permits case to be worn on belt.
•All parts available as spares
I get the covers (probably more like Crossover, maybe just like regular MB opened, which is what MBDX has been since the beginning), the sealed comb and the new zipper case. The rest seems like the same as before, but I'm intrigued by the "new reeed profiles," and whether they're really new for this year, or if they're new since the last time they updated them a few years ago. Steve Baker usually knows this stuff, but I don't think he's on this forum.
My first Hohner harps were MBDX's and I loved them, but I've replaced many of them with SP20's just because they're as cheap as MB's but easier to maintain with screws instead of nails. But I do love the MBDX still.
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HarpNinja
1544 posts
Jul 28, 2011
7:43 AM
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I just looked that up too...SWEET!
I've heard, but I haven't tried them yet, that the reed profiles are "better" on the MB too. My understanding is they have worked to ensure better arcs and gaps. There is also the feeling that the new combs make the harps play better.
I have evidence that some other tweaks to how they treat the reeds would lead to increased life, but no definitive evidence of that. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that they are doing this.
I'll see what I can dig up and share on the forum. I think an 8-10% price increase, which starts this next month, is worth if for fully sealed combs and better reed profiles. It doesn't really hurt my as a small business as there is still plenty to do to make a better overblow or custom harp. I also like that I can use more stock parts and take less time to do certain things...which means I don't have to raise prices along with Hohner.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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joshnat
157 posts
Jul 28, 2011
7:52 AM
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That's great news, if true! Catalog copy is often difficult to separate reality from hype (I used to write it for Ibanez). I guess the real question is if they "new" reed profiles are really "new" or just "newish" (funny they don't look newish...joke), same as the profiles they updated, I think, 3-4 years ago. Then the other question would be whether the whole handmade line will get the same profile. It would be silly if they didn't, but clearly Hohner is using the MB as the innovation platform, rather than the SP20 or GM, or even the MS series.
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HarpNinja
1545 posts
Jul 28, 2011
8:00 AM
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I am just speculating, but I bet they start using the same profiles as the Crossover. I think between the impact of the sealed comb and tighter tolerances in general, that is enough to "hype".
Take it all with a grain of salt as any company is going to make things sound super impressive even if it isn't as cool as it sounds, but fully sealed combs and more consitency in gapping is a big deal.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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nacoran
4395 posts
Jul 28, 2011
12:05 PM
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2 people?
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Nate
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barbequebob
1700 posts
Jul 29, 2011
7:05 AM
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For the MB, finally they're on the right track, but two things I'd like them to do are get rid of those nails and use screws instead, and have the cover plates made more along the lines the way they were prior to 1980, or better yet, prior to WWII, because in either case, they're far more wide open than they are now, and when they began closing the back of the covers more, they lost a lot of volume and projection. As a traditional blues player, I'd also like to see them go back to tuning it to either 7LJI or 19LJI, and when they were tuning them that way, their tuning was far more consistent from harp to harp than when they went to the compromise tunings.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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groyster1
1226 posts
Jul 29, 2011
11:05 PM
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@barbque
I agree with what you say more than anybody on this forum-why dont they stop putting the effen nails on marine bands and there are some of us who much prefer JI tuned harps-I really wish you had the choice when you purchase a harp
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garry
82 posts
Jul 30, 2011
5:44 PM
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does anyone know why they still use nails? is it a tradition thing? a cost saving thing? seems ridiculous to me, though i expect that the majority of harp players may never open 'em up, in which case it makes no difference.
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HarpNinja
1551 posts
Jul 30, 2011
8:31 PM
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Why wouldn't you buy a Marine Band Deluxe or Crossover instead? You have four options off the traditional design with two different tunings (I realize they aren't 19 or 7...thankfully not 7, but it is a trend all around that you don't get either OOTB).
Obviously this is a cost thing. If you want a harp with screws and different comb/covers, you have to pay the extra overheard.
MB 1896
MB Special 20
MB Deluxe
MB Crossover
Lots of options.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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Stevelegh
259 posts
Jul 31, 2011
12:51 AM
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No hating on Hohner, but they don't have the greatest ears and never had done, but that said, I think Mike made a huge point with regard to the new MB's sealed comb. They are a monster of an operation and can't just retool at the drop of a hat and dump all existing stock. They've probably got a bank of parts and back orders lasting a year or so, which they need to have to meet demand. It's all good news in my book, just a pity that life is like this sometimes.
I think they're getting better at listening and having the new medium of forums like this are a great sounding board for them.
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garry
83 posts
Jul 31, 2011
4:20 PM
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@HarpNinja: but other harps in the same price range, from special 20's to suzuki/seydel/etc all manage to use screws.
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HarmonicaMick
263 posts
Jul 31, 2011
6:24 PM
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@ HarpNinja: I can't say I agree with you about screws adding to the cost, at least not to the extent that Hohner hikes up the price of their MB models that have them. At the risk of sounding sarcastic, we're talking about harps, not space shuttles.
To me, it seems obvious that Hohner have traded on the deserved reputation of the the 1896 model and used it as an excuse to market far more expensive models that circumvent the problems inherent in the 1896, but not completely.
The 2005 Deluxe model only partially addressed the problems, but omitted to fully seal the comb. I mean, how hard could it have been to fully seal it? Again, we're not talking space shuttles here.
Then, in 2010 - or was it 2009? - we get the Crossover, which has a fully sealed comb, but a tuning that may well get up the noses of traditional players.
Then we come almost full circle, with the the 1896 getting a fully sealed comb, but, alas, no screws. I've not doubt that Hohner are fully aware of the extent to which many players just want a fully serviceable, fully maintainable 1896 MB.
However, if they were to introduce screws then, to many players, they would have negated the need for their much more costly MB models.
It's just marketing and maximisation of profit. Pure and simple. I don't blame them for that, but I do see through it. It's in everything we buy from washing powder - whites have been getting whiter since I was a child. How white can white get? - to bottled water, claiming to have a better taste - water is inherently tasteless!
No, this isn't about cost. It's about constantly re-branding the MB so as to make money. When they put screws in the 1896, I might stop exclusively using Special 20s, which will probably outlast me, and buy a few.
By the way, I know you're a Hohner endorser, but if I didn't, I still say exactly the same things.
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HarpNinja
1555 posts
Aug 01, 2011
9:01 AM
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@HarmonicaMick
I don't disagree with you.
The 1896 is probably the most popular "pro" level harp in the world, so if you're making a ton of coin off of it, than why change it? The amount of people wanting it to be different is probably less than those who do. I bet the majority of people buying harps don't get whey something else would be better. I also bet Hohner has bigger fish to fry outside of their harmonica development.
I do let them off the hook a bit as I don't think too many companies were making harps with wood combs and completely sealing them until this last generation of harps. I think some of it is a health and safety concern, although I can't fault a business for trying to make a buck unless they are totally doing it wrong from that start (see other companies related to harp).
I would bet, thought that the overwhelming majority of harp players don't expect a fully serviceable and fully maintainable harp. They use them until they are so flat that they are unuseable or until they break a reed - which usually doesn't take that long to happen.
If it were that marketable at that price to the point of being worth added costs - because the combs at least take more money - than they'd do it. I am even thinking of how many pros BRAG about using STOCK 1896's with all their flaws...even AG has made comments towards customs and better quality MBs not being the answer.
Let's face it, the person hardcore enough to tinker with a harp is far and few between when considering the harmonica is the most popular instrument in the world. The amount of serious players is almost nothing. The amount of serious players who want to mod and maintain harps is even smaller.
Someone like myself is a very, very small drop in the harmonica bucket and up against a culture that has been based on nails and unsealed combs (and throw away harps) for years.
Personally, I've never been a huge 1896 fan and will gladly play more to get a Crossover. I know they aren't cheap, but I'd play SP20's at the very least...and I played harp with various brands for 8 years before getting a "deal" on anything.
FWIW, if I were not using Hohner, the harps I would buy would still all cost more than a 1896. Only one model I like uses wood combs. The other are plastic.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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HarmonicaMick
264 posts
Aug 01, 2011
9:32 AM
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@ HarpNinja: you may be right that most people don't want a fully serviceable/maintainable MB. However, that's not the impression I get from using this forum off and on for the last 2 or 3 years, at least when it comes to harp-obsessed hardcore suckers and blowers, as opposed to folks that just like to tinker a little.
Still, reading your post, I must admit that I'm still not really swayed. I still don't think that it would have been all that difficult for Hohner to adjust their production line so that they could incorporate screws into the 1896 without charging bonkers money for it. Of course, that is just conjecture.
As a player who hates tinkering with their harps, that, and the formerly unsealed combs, is what has always put me off playing them. When I first bought a Deluxe, I was massively pissed off when I paid the extra and the damn thing still swelled up after a week's playing. I don't know if you remember my thread 'Pure Rage at Hohner' which was a rant on the subject.
When the Crossover came out with the new fancy comb, I thought, "Yippee," until, that is, I thought about the cost of a whole set, 12 of which would cost more than my Korg digital piano.
Then we get the 1896 with a sealed comb - at last! - but no screws.
As much as our views differ, I expect you still see where my scepticism is coming from.
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groyster1
1233 posts
Aug 01, 2011
9:34 AM
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IMHO wood combs do nothing to improve the tone of a harp-I recently replaced an SP20 plastic comb with a dymanwood walnut comb and it did nothing but make the harp more attractive-for those of you who insist the wood combs improve the sound of a harp I will not dispute your observation and opinion but I have my opinion also
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HarmonicaMick
265 posts
Aug 01, 2011
10:19 AM
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@ groyster1: I like it when we disagree, provided that it doesn't get all unnecessary.
About that Spl20 with the wood comb, any chance of seeing a piccy or a link? The reason I ask is because I'm curious about how the maker gets round the intricacies of the mouth piece, and I'd like to see what they're like 'cos I play 20s. Thanks.
It's OK, I found these:
http://www.myspace.com/desimonecustomharp/photos/10268154#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A10268142%7D
It is a very pretty looking thing.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Aug 01, 2011 10:56 AM
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groyster1
1236 posts
Aug 01, 2011
5:37 PM
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@HarmonicaMick
no matter how much I explore other harps,I always come back to sp20s and will never try to change the comb of one again but there are many in this forum who try different cover plates-that very much interests me
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HarmonicaMick
266 posts
Aug 01, 2011
6:02 PM
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Yeah, I've spent about a zillion quid trying different harps, but still come back to the 20: great tone, durable, easy to maintain, and good bang for the buck. I love the sound of the MB, but am utterly dismayed about all the stuff I've banged on about above. To me, a standard MB is like a disposable razor blade: you buy it knowing full well that you're gonna have to throw it away after a while, unless, that is, you like doing all that tekky stuff, which I don't.
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groyster1
1238 posts
Aug 01, 2011
8:11 PM
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right on harmonicanick
I have 4 customized sp20s and the only harp that is superior is a a customized crossoverBTW rockinron has replacement reedplates for SP20s
Last Edited by on Aug 02, 2011 11:16 AM
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