groyster1
1192 posts
Jul 21, 2011
10:39 AM
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amen!jason is an inspiration to many of us and brings more to the table that can be asked of him
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Kyzer Sosa
991 posts
Jul 21, 2011
11:37 AM
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if everyone threw in the towel any time a forum member said something that didnt jive with the OP, there'd be no one here to post anything. One person whos posted 12 times runs jason off with two sentences? Jason comes here to drop a few helpful? lines, peddle his belongings, and then bails as soon as someone has a difference of opinion on his post? or was it that theres nothing else to sell/gain from posting here?
something doesnt jive...
Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
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MrVerylongusername
1770 posts
Jul 21, 2011
11:52 AM
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He's just taking a break. We all do that. Perhaps the two issues aren't connected? Maybe he just has other stuff to do... like getting hitched for instance?
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Diggsblues
907 posts
Jul 21, 2011
11:59 AM
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An accusation of an ethics violation is a serious
charge. This isn't I think your tone sucks.
This is an attack on someone's reputation.
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Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind
How you doin'
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Honkin On Bobo
695 posts
Jul 21, 2011
12:25 PM
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I love Jason's playing and respect him as an artist, and I'll admit that he's got more to offer here than the majority of posters (hell, I even loved his essay on the rigors of trying to break into the professional ranks).
Having said all that, the guy critiquing him had a valid point. If your endorsement announcement includes a statement that while acting as an endorser for company X, you really enjoyed/loved/played company Y's harps; it only natural to question the sincerity of the current endorsement. The guy could have been more diplomatic in the way he communicated the message, but I got what he was saying. And he wasn't the only one to raise that question in the thread.
I've always taken the celebrity endorsement with a grain of salt, anyway. Usually, the people proclaiming "I use _____ because it's the same _____ that (fill in the name of celebrity here) uses"...are the people looking for some shortcut to being better at whatever they're trying to do.
Maybe after you become accomplished it changes, I don't know, but I know that for me sounding better right now is 99.99% a me problem and not a what harp I'm playing problem.
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apskarp
514 posts
Jul 21, 2011
12:56 PM
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Never tried a Suzuki, although I used to have a Suzuki motorcycle for a few years.. Going to get my first Seydel soon though..
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Youtube
Hoodoo Sauna
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dukeofwail
25 posts
Jul 21, 2011
1:00 PM
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Some interesting conditional morality expressed in this thread.
I like that a list member can confront CONTENT, and I hope the opportunity continues to function here.
(Ever read "The Lottery"?)
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Robert Hale
Learn Harmonica via Webcam
Low Rates, High Results
Gilbert AZ (Phoenix)
http://www.dukeofwail.com
DUKEofWAIL YouTube
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2011 1:02 PM
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Seven.Oh.Three.
119 posts
Jul 21, 2011
1:00 PM
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I must have missed something....... Has anybody on this forum read Jason's contract with hohner? No? So why would you think you can comment on it? But, like I said, I must have missed something.
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snakes
645 posts
Jul 21, 2011
1:07 PM
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Congratulations on the endorsement Jason! I am the proud owner of a good 25 to 30 Suzuki harps. It took me awhile to figure out that I liked the Fire Breath best. I use Manji's as my backup. Still need to try the Hammond though. I've tried several of the diatonics and I really like my SCX-64 as well, but can't lay claim to owning a chromatic long enough to be able to gig with it yet. My experience with the customer service is excellent, although I've only had to send one harp to get tweaked. They did the work for free and shipped it back at no charge for return shipping.
Thanks for being an inspiration to us.
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snakes in Seattle
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REM
84 posts
Jul 21, 2011
4:19 PM
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" If your endorsement announcement includes a statement that while acting as an endorser for company X, you really enjoyed/loved/played company Y's harps; it only natural to question the sincerity of the current endorsement."
I disagree. If someone were an endorser for Company X company and they started telling people that Company X makes the greatest harps in the world, and no other company makes harps that are even worth playing, and I would never play any other complanys harps under any circumstance because they are all so inferior to Company X's harps. Now that is something I would find pretty disingenuious. And I think most other people would as well, because there are simply lots of great harps made by different companys. And Jason was simply acknowledging that fact.
I don't even understand why anyone is having a problem with what Jason said. Do you honestly think that somewhere in Jason's endorsement contract it said that as part of his endorsement he must dislike every other brand of harmonica? As part of the endorsement he simply had to promote hohner harmonicas, and Jason did that very well. He played hohner harmonica at his shows and he reccommended them to people. His personal opinions about another company's product were irrelevent to his endorsement. Just because Jason's a fan of hohner harmonicas does that mean he can't also like suzuki harmonicas equally? When Jason was endorsed by hohner he wasn't out promoting suzuki, so I really don't see what the problem is. Now that his hohner endorsement is long over, Jason is giving his opinion on Suzuki harmonicas. Does this mean that he was decieving people by his past endoresment of hohner? Of course not. Just because someone likes suzuki harps, doesn't mean they don't like hohner harps equally as much.
Here's another example: Boris recently accepted an endorsement deal with Seydel Harmonicas. Before he told us he'd spent a long time debating over which company he should take an endorsement deal from. Boris had been a fan of the Golden Melody for a long time, but he's also likes the steel reeds of the 1847. Finally he decided on Seydel. Does this mean that as part of his endorsement he has to stop liking the Golden melody and start believing that hohner Golden Melodys are bad harps? Of course not, his endorsement just requires that he promotes Seydel harmonicas, what he thinks of another companys product is irrelevent. If Boris's seydel endorsement eventually ends and then several years down the line after the end of his emdorsement he says he's a fan of the 1847, but he's also always liked the hohner golden melody(which most of us already know, because he's said just that), would you also have a problem with that? Because that's no different than what Jason said.
I really don't understand why any one here has any problem. I guess there are a few people who just like to point fingers and judge people.
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2011 4:26 PM
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Gnarly
69 posts
Jul 21, 2011
4:53 PM
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It's just like me working for Suzuki, when they call on the phone about Suzuki harps, I talk about our product line. If they ask me what I like, I talk about our product line. When they ask me what I play, I tell them the truth.
Jason has, if anything, erred on the side of truth telling, which, as we all know, can be a dangerous business.
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MrVerylongusername
1777 posts
Jul 21, 2011
4:58 PM
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What about Junior Wells, who, as I understand it, endorsed Lee Oskars as a protest vote against Hohner shocking 80s quality control?
honest? ethical?
your thoughts gentlemen...
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timeistight
105 posts
Jul 21, 2011
5:00 PM
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"I guess there are a few people who just like to point fingers and judge people."
Bullseye! Give that man a kewpee doll.
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2011 5:01 PM
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Shredder
291 posts
Jul 21, 2011
5:14 PM
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I've had an "A" Suzuki Manji for 5 months now. Quite a nice harp, played great out of the box has a good feel in hand, very responsive and reasonably priced for the quality. The tuning is a little diffrent but I use it on a regular basis in certain songs when Gigging. One more thing, it seems to cut thru the mix better than my S/p 20' and G/M. I thinkit is brighter and allows for the cut.
Jason, piss on the negative comments, heck 99% of us think very highly of you. Hell I drove all the way to HCH this year just to tell you in person thanks for the 3rd position video you posted, I understood what you were telling me and now regularly play 3rd on stage.
Keep the information coming,
Mike
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groyster1
1194 posts
Jul 21, 2011
5:16 PM
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@verylong
did not know that about jrwells but did hear lee oskar gave him harps for free and he was buried with them but Im quite sure jr could make any harp sound pretty good
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Cristal Lecter
75 posts
Jul 21, 2011
5:22 PM
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Just few things here:
1) Endorsements are a part of a 2 way deal between a company and an individual. As ANY deal there's a contract, and yes most of the time it includes (of course) the promotion of the brand you've the contract with...Does it says exclusively the brand? Does it says that you don't have to play other brand of harmonica in public? This is NOT your business, the contract can change from one company to another, and as long as you don't have the term of the contract THERE'S NO POINT of judging Jason or any other players who have the opportunity to get endorsements because of their talent and hard work. In clear this is not your business as long as you're not implied.
2) the position of one artist regarding his/her behaviour regarding his/her loyalty to a brand is once again not black and white and not your business....As you know I've had 3 endorsements with brands of harmonica and microphone . Do you think because I've joined the Suzuki family (the Manji M20 is for me the BEST harmonica for my type of playing) that I despise Seydel, my former endorsement??? NO Seydel are great instrument (I've not removed my videos where I play Seydel for that reason) and the people who work in this company have been professional and kind with me. BUT Suzuki was what I was waiting for and Waichiro and Manii Suzuki have been the best of people and understanding. I've a 3rd endorsement with Audix Microphones and the Audix CEO NEVER said to me that it was wrong to use other microphones (which I did and continue to, with the fantastic microphones form Blowsmeaway.com, Greg's work is outstanding)....
My conclusion is that you guys who're judgemental about some of us who have endorsements, I simply say: you don't get it!!...Instead of pouring your venom on forums, go back to square one and work your backside off on your instrument and may be one day you'll be able to appreciate fully what the situation is.
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Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2011 5:30 PM
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Honkin On Bobo
698 posts
Jul 21, 2011
5:24 PM
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Hey, I admire Jason's playing, his heart his art and all the rest. I just thought that John95683 had a valid point, however acerbic the tone of the message was.
And yes, in some endorsement contracts, it's explicitly stated that the endorser will not use, wear, display etc. the competitors product.
I have no idea what his deal with hohner was, it's none of my business, so i have no opinion on the ethical question. I do read the forum though and the credibility issue was the first thing that popped into my head when he started the whole clandestine "suzuki while I was repping sombody else" talk.
It's obvious that he was talking off the cuff on this forum. but if i were the suzuki marketing/promotion department i'd advise him to stay away from that and just promote the benefits of suzuki harps.
2 cents from an old venture capitalist.
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eharp
1373 posts
Jul 21, 2011
6:34 PM
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i'd hardly call it "pouring your venom."
the point was fair and jason could have addressed it or not. his choice.
the problem is people then twist the thread. if no one had called john on his post, THERE WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE!!
i hope jason doesnt stay away too long, but i wouldnt put the blame on john if jason does stay off the forum.
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Rubes
363 posts
Jul 21, 2011
7:00 PM
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Congrats Jason! You are one of the best & i hope you guys do great things!
My kit is a mixed bag, but my four Suzukis are amongst the best.
Good words Christal, lets all get along.......:~}
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HarpNinja
1522 posts
Jul 21, 2011
7:24 PM
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The endorsement comment was made out of ignorance. As a Hohner endorser,I know that it is perfectly legit to play other brands of harmonica. There are agreements about when it is ok and not ok to do so, but Jason was in no way causing an issue by using another brand.
Also, as far as I know, Hohner endorsers aren't paid to be endorsers. There are kick backs and discounts, and maybe an exception or two, but generally speaking, you aren't given money as part of the deal. Nor do you promise not to ever play other brands...you are just agreeing to not endorse them.
Hohner is like the Nike of harmonica. They could do a lot less for me, but they treat me wonderfully and are very easy to communicate with...and I am pretty much a nobody. I am extremely grateful to have a relationship with them and don't for a second take it for granted.
Having dealt with Suzuki and Seydel reps face to face, I can't say enough of how great they are too, and knowing some of their endorsers, it would appear they have similar deals.
Regarding the B-Rad comments, when taken in the correct context and understanding a large part of the story, it was probably wise to move on from that too.
IMO, if anything could be called into question regarding the OP, it would be the sincerity of it all. I am not saying that Jason doesn't mean what he is saying, or that that is my belief, but rather, judging him by previous comments, it would be at least debatable. I would argue that, as someone knowing him personally, that Jason is extremely passionate about many things, and like many Italians I know, not to keen on forgiving and forgetting. ;)
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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Ant138
1030 posts
Jul 21, 2011
11:30 PM
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Does anyone know what type of kickbacks other endorsers of musical instruments get. I here rock stars get free guitars or signature models or unlimited free guitars strings but do they really??
I mean Adams a Hohner endorser and he gets a % discount off Marine Bands.
Surely if you look what Adam has done single handedly for harmonica, Hohner or the Marineband in general, thats got to be worth 30 free marinebands a year not just a discount.
I know Fender and Gibson guitars can cost thousands but a few FREE Marinbands a year to a guy who has revolutionised learning the harmonica is not too much to ask??
If this is the case and these artist like Adam,Mike,Jason and Cristal just get a discount then surely they have the right to play other harp brands if they want to.
I mean it doesnt exactly sound like these Harmonica companys are lavishing them in harp gifts.
Surely a company like Hohner have more chance of getting a young kid to part with £40 for a harp than say Gibson does of getting the same kid to part with £1500 for a signature guitar???
I really thought an endorsment would at least mean free harps!!
Maybe im being ignorant and these harp companys are not as big as i thought they were:o)
http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2011 11:31 PM
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Todd Parrott
574 posts
Jul 22, 2011
12:01 AM
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As a Hohner endorsee, they told me that they certainly weren't saying that I can't own another brand of harp or even play it. They said there is no real policing of that sort of thing, however, they do require that you exclusively play Hohner harmonicas publicly. This is fine for me, because I've always played Golden Melodies long before I was an endorsee. They also don't want to see you wearing a competitor's t-shirt at SPAH, or appearing on another harp company's web site, etc. For example, when I signed with Hohner, I had to come off of the Harrison Harmonicas site.
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apskarp
515 posts
Jul 22, 2011
2:43 AM
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I suspect John works for Hohner and was angry because Jason downplayed Hohners while endorsing other brand. It's not cool to downplay other brands - it would be sufficient just to endorse the one's you want..
I suspect that without the downplaying there wouldn't have been any negative comments. But I guess it was Jason's way of legitimize the act of changing the endorsed brands. But hey, let's get real - these things are always done for money and other benefits. Everybody knows it, be it guitars, harps, drums, slalom skies etc.
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Youtube
Hoodoo Sauna
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jim
932 posts
Jul 22, 2011
3:29 AM
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The problem here is... even if they supply you with instruments, you still have to customise them.
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Free Harp Learning Center
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harpwrench
506 posts
Jul 22, 2011
4:53 AM
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Not if they supply customized instruments....
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didjcripey
113 posts
Jul 22, 2011
4:55 AM
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@ Jim:You do if you're a harp customiser.
More than a few great players use whatever, out of the box. Just saying!
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 4:56 AM
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Konstantin
6 posts
Jul 22, 2011
9:55 AM
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@ Jim: Well, that's right. It's really time-expensive and not my favourite thing to do.
Konstantin
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groyster1
1196 posts
Jul 22, 2011
11:05 AM
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@harpNinja
thanks for the positive thread-you heard it on the blues harp forum also from todd another endorser you can play suzukis LOs whatever you want-that should be the end of it
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SuzukiDaron
1 post
Jul 22, 2011
11:28 AM
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Allow me to say that we here at Suzuki Music USA are absolutely thrilled to have Jason on board as the newest member of the Suzuki family!
Jason is one of the most talented and innovative harmonica players on the planet, and we expect that this relationship will greatly benefit both the player and manufacturer alike. We simply could not be happier about it.
Welcome aboard Jason! See you (and all the rest of you harpers) at SPAH!
Last Edited by on Jul 22, 2011 2:54 PM
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nacoran
4348 posts
Jul 22, 2011
12:52 PM
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Do you think Jared gets this much flack if he wants to cheat on his diet one day and have a Whopper instead of a sub from Subway?
Here is how I'd look at it if I was a harmonica manufacturer. I'd want my endorsers to show of my harps... towards that end I'd give them a good deal on harps. I'd also want them to play other harps from time to time and to honestly tell me what they liked about them (so I could see if I could improve my harps) and, from a public relations point of view I'd want them to be honest with the public too. It's like the Matrix... the robots made a world where everything was too perfect, nobody believed it. If someone says something that doesn't look like they've done any critical thinking to come to their decision no one takes it seriously. I'd want my endorsers to be honest, after all, they like my harps enough that they want a discount on my harps instead of another brand.
I'd also point out, since John seems to have missed it, that for several of those years he's accusing Jason of being unfaithful he's accusing him of being unfaithful to a harp that was in R&D, not actually available for him to play, and, more generally, that when you make an endorsement you are endorsing the current product line, not making a warranty that another company will never come out with something you like better, or even that there won't be occasions when a specific model won't be quite what you need. You'd be selling out your music if you didn't play what you felt was the best harp for what you were doing.
And sometimes you just want a Whopper.
Okay, all this rant has accomplished is now I'm hungry... :)
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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Gnarly
70 posts
Jul 22, 2011
2:18 PM
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And while we are at it, let's welcome Daron back to Suzuki!
I, sadly, will be seeing nobody at SPAH--maybe next year 8(
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SuzukiDaron
2 posts
Jul 22, 2011
2:55 PM
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Thanks, Gary......I wish you were still working with us here.
....and Dagnabbit, why do I suddenly want a Whopper so badly right now?!?
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-Daron Stinton
SUZUKI MUSIC USA
Got a question about a Suzuki Harp?
Call (800) 854-1594, or e-mail harmonicas@suzukicorp.com
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Todd Parrott
578 posts
Jul 22, 2011
7:51 PM
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When I mentioned Suzuki being more than friendly and professional.... well, Daron's one of those guys. He's always very cool to chat with at SPAH and other conventions. Nice to see him here on the forum.
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mandowhacker
65 posts
Jul 22, 2011
8:45 PM
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Jason...........Cheryl called this afternoon and said your package arrive in good shape. Thanks.
This is gonna be the longest trip from Seattle to Atlanta---ever.
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
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Sarge
64 posts
Jul 22, 2011
9:12 PM
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Hey Jason, I hope you're able to stop by the bean blossom blues fest.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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