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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > contemporary (smooth) jazz for blues harp
contemporary (smooth) jazz for blues harp
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kudzurunner
2572 posts
Jul 03, 2011
6:48 PM
If you know the history of blues harmonica, you know that Little Walter loved the "hip pop" of his time, which was Louis Jordan and his Tympany Five.

Inspired by his example--listening to the music of his time--I've lately developed a fascination with pop-jazz trumpet. When I was just graduating from college, this sort of music was represented by Chuck Mangione's "Feel So Good" and Spyro Gyra's "Morning Song." These days it's represented by Chris Botti's "Why Not" and Rick Braun's "Green Tomatoes."

That latter tune is one I've been woodshedding for the last little while. It's in the key of F and falls naturally into cross harp on a Bb harp. The bridge is a modulation to funky C, so you play third position on the same harp.

If you're interested in the tune, pick it up on iTunes. Here's a live version. Lots of meat here for an inquiring blues harmonica mind interested in connecting with the present day, as opposed to a retro moment:

Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2011 6:49 PM
kudzurunner
2573 posts
Jul 03, 2011
6:56 PM
If we're able to get past labels and actually listen, then it should be obvious that what's going here is very close to the spirit of the blues. It's riff-heavy, heavily syncopated, improvised music. It draws from Muddy Waters and Willie Dixon (the stop time riff of "Hoochie Coochie Man") and the entire melody is purely in the pentatonic blues scale, with appropriate inflections. It's heavy--as in serious, substantial, with popping bottom end--rather than light, but it's not cerebral. I know that some folk here make a point of saying "I hate jazz," but this is just good-time funk that happens to be posing as "contemporary jazz," something appropriate for SmoothChicago.com.

America is a big, complex place, and our music reflects that.
kudzurunner
2574 posts
Jul 03, 2011
7:02 PM
Rod Piazza, bless his heart, worked the pop vein very effectively, covering a tune that hit the Hot 100 not once but twice--first for Bobby Day in 1958, then, for the Jackson Five in 1972, mixing it into "Little Bitty Pretty One" by Thurston Harris (1957):





Last Edited by on Jul 03, 2011 7:06 PM
JohnnieHarp
103 posts
Jul 03, 2011
10:27 PM
Agree re: smooth jazz trumpet. Sax too.
joeleebush
272 posts
Jul 04, 2011
5:31 AM
Lots of room for some solid harp work on that "tomatoes" tune. I did the Bflat diatonic work and then decided to take a chromatic 270 in D, hold the button in and work in 3rd against those F lines. Grace notes can abound doing this with the in/out of the button.
I am thinking that opening the mouthpiece and reversing the slide would make it easier...(Rick Estrin told me that Big Walter did some of that on a 64) Mine sounded pretty good too...especially the low octaves.
I bet someone who plays strong first with the chromatic could take an F and wail like hell on this.
That thing makes 'em wanta dance.
If someone can't dance to that song he/she must have a cement block tied to one foot.
Joe Lee approves...with a resounding YESSSSS.
timeistight
84 posts
Jul 04, 2011
8:23 AM
Genre names are funny things, eh? This could have come off some Blue Note album from the sixties, except then we'd call it "Soul Jazz".
Greg Heumann
1167 posts
Jul 04, 2011
9:06 AM
Totally agree - great groove. There are lots of these "jazz standards" that come up for harp. Comin' Home, Cissy Strut, Chicken Shack, Song for my Father, Watermelon Man, Put it where you want it, .... lots more (and most of the ones above are I-IV-V-based - very easy to do on harp.)


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beltone
52 posts
Jul 04, 2011
7:04 PM
Right on Greg! One master of Jazz blues on the harp today is Fred Yonnet http://www.fredyonnet.com/. Killer player and very nice guy.

The other that I love what he does with minor Jazz/Blues is Jimi Lee. He nails the minor blues in a jazz style.

Learned several good ones from Adam and his online help including Chicken Shack and Water Mellon Man.

Great stuff all the way around!
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-- BTMF --
The Iceman
8 posts
Jul 05, 2011
5:42 AM
The innovator in music that helped create smooth jazz as well as ambient was Miles Davis. He always went back to his blues roots. Trumpet solos from the Kind of Blue recordings and the soundtrack "Ascent to the Scaffold" offer much to be gained through study and transposing.
tmf714
707 posts
Jul 05, 2011
7:06 AM
@ Iceman-Davis may have led the way as far as "Cool Jazz",but I would leave smooth jazz to Pat Metheny and George Benson-Davis was too cool for "Smooth Jazz"-
PT
95 posts
Jul 05, 2011
7:29 AM
With today's plentiful choices in obtaining all the notes on diatonic (Over blows, half valving, alt tuning ect...) I am surprised more players are not branching out to cover a lot of great material that is highly accessible. I for one could never go backwards again to limited notes in the scale.
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"Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
kudzurunner
2577 posts
Jul 05, 2011
8:38 AM
I think what Iceman is saying is that the people who created "smooth jazz"--with Chris Botti being a good example--have spent a lot of time soaking up the cool aesthetic pioneered by Miles. Chet Baker and The Crusaders may turn out to be just as important to the evolution of smooth jazz.

Pat Metheny and George Benson are both master musicians. Benson, who had a background in soul jazz and R&B vocals, had enough artistic integrity in the late 1970s to find a way of putting all his musical influences together into "This Masquerade," which was a huge hit: scatting along with his guitar after singing the song. To that extent he helped bring deep blues energies into the heart of contemporary pop. Delta slide guitar was designed to mimic blues vocal lines and some Delta guitarists--Robert Johnson, for example--sang or hummed along with their slide lines.
walterharp
643 posts
Jul 05, 2011
10:15 AM
There is some movement forward, but I am curious what is to be gained by listing to this as opposed to Crusaders, who I would put above the lite jazz guys you mentioned, and have a better sense of funk and jazz timings.
The Rick Braun clip sounds a good bit like the saturday night live band often does when fronted by a hot horn player
kudzurunner
2579 posts
Jul 05, 2011
2:02 PM
I certainly didn't mean to suggest that everything that The Crusaders played was in the direction of smooth jazz! Far from it. And you picked the perfect video clip to demonstrate that. By the same token, in other moods they exemplify the California-cool side of R&B. Smooth jazz has picked up on that--which is why smooth jazz stations play their songs. Here's the sort of thing I'm talking about, although other songs might exemplify my point even more effectively:



Actually, here's a better clip:

Last Edited by on Jul 05, 2011 2:04 PM
kudzurunner
2580 posts
Jul 05, 2011
2:08 PM
Just for the heck of it, I googled the phrases "smooth jazz" and "the crusaders." Lotsa stuff comes up.

http://tunein.com/radio/The-Crusaders-m448173/
chromaticblues
907 posts
Jul 05, 2011
5:28 PM
Man Green tomatoes is GREAT song for harp! Its easy and it has a nice bouncy feel. It's like taking Jazz Funk and Blues and putting them altogether. Thank You for posting that! I was unaware of that song and now can't stop playing it!
@Iceman I jammed with a kid I use to work with a couple times he was playing a little bit of All Blues from Miles Kind Of Blues and there is a harp song in there also. If I remember right there were three parts. The first one I played in 2nd and one of the other parts 3rd fit, but the other part he was playing chords not the melody and when I got home to listen to it I couldn't put it together.
Listening to this has inspired me to try again!
tmf714
709 posts
Jul 05, 2011
6:55 PM
walterharp
644 posts
Jul 06, 2011
6:19 AM
I am still not clear what new the first video brings to the table. The bands in the 70's, while influenced by miles, did bring something new to that table, the funk feel. Sort of hinted at by some of Miles' electric stuff late, but the fusion bands really took that and ran with it.

Off topic, I saw Crusaders in 1978 in Portland, and it was the weirdest light job. The spotlight was always on Carlton even when Felder was wailing on a solo in the center of the stage with no spot. Carlton walked over to Felder, pointed to the spotlight guy, and pointed to Felder, and then walked back to his side of the stage. The spotlight followed him. Couldn't figure out if it was a guitar-worship, a race thing, or a bit of both...but damn that band was good.. especially when felder cranked on his rack of effects, seems like some of the stuff he was doing could work with harp (effects wise)
kudzurunner
2581 posts
Jul 06, 2011
9:19 AM
@walterharp: "I am still not clear what new the first video brings to the table." I've been saying the same thing about the umpteenth cover of "Juke," "Easy," and "Help Me"! That's why I posted the video: a song featuring jazzy R&B horns, eminently playable on harp, that doesn't come from the same old (overplayed) Chicago/West Coast playbook. Just 'cause you and I are hip to the Crusaders and all that good, juicy music doesn't mean that everybody else on the forum is.

(For the record, my musical sensibilities were honed in a college band named Spiral, after the title of a Crusaders song and album; we were a sextet--the same configuration as the Crusaders--and Larry Carlton was one of my chief inspirations on guitar. You and I love the same music, clearly. You're going to have to work awfully hard to make it seem as though we disagree in any measurable way here. Let me rephrase that: I'm SO GLAD that you and are are posting videos of The Crusaders!)

What my first video of Rick Braun brings new to the table, in other words, isn't the music itself, but merely a song that no blues harp player, as far as I know, is covering. That in itself makes it new, and worth sharing. I certainly wasn't suggesting that the music itself was brave and new--although a harp player who translates it into his language may indeed find himself veering off the beaten path. It's just feel-good funk. It inspires me; I was sharing that feeling, and the track, in the hope that it might inspire others. I'm glad it has!

For the record, here's my college band, 25 years down the line, playing a Crusaders song called "My Mama Told Me So"



Our band took its name from the following song, played live by the guys who wrote it. Yes, I played lead on this song, and it was a bitch. I'll post video:

Last Edited by on Jul 06, 2011 9:31 AM
walterharp
646 posts
Jul 06, 2011
3:00 PM
hey adam, i was not being critical of you, just getting clarification, good point about that video being accessible for harp. listening to the crusaders some of the licks that joe sample plays might be the most accessible for harp (ok, not the chords...but his solo phrasing is really something i admire).

back then i was a crappy flute player (ian anderson seemed cool), but somehow this guy who played keith jarrett-like piano improve and i were on the same wavelength and did, what seemed to me at the time, some ok shows.
chromaticblues
909 posts
Jul 07, 2011
4:55 PM
I just tried this song with a Golden Melody Bb that I just installed a wooden comb on and this is from someone that only plays blues harps and tunings. It was perfect! Man I really like the Golden Melody with the wooden comb!


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