toxic_tone
161 posts
Jun 07, 2011
12:52 PM
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how do i apply triads to my playing? i know how to figuer out what a triad is its the 1st 3rd and perfct 5th. but how do i use this knowlege to my advantage i am a bit confused
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timeistight
58 posts
Jun 07, 2011
1:57 PM
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The simplest way to apply them is to play the triad for each chord in a progression. For example, for a simple blues in C, you play the C, F and G triads at the appropriate bars.
To get a bit more complicated, you can look at many chords as being composed of multiple triads. For example, a C6 contains a C major triad and an A minor triad. A G9 contains a G major triad, a B diminished triad and a D minor triad.
You can also Google "triad pairs" for some more exotic triad uses.
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toxic_tone
162 posts
Jun 07, 2011
2:10 PM
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i dont know why its so confusing to me. ok so i know how to play the changes in blues. and i can improv very good with blues.
C F G do each of these notes have thier own triad? lets say a guitar player says to me the chords are F Am g
just for example. do each of those notes have a triad or is it only the scale type that have triads. also how bout diff modes like mixolydian or ionian do those have triads as well. help me to understand please.
for those who know this. how did you start learning them and what excersises did u use to get familiar with them?
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2011 2:14 PM
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timeistight
59 posts
Jun 07, 2011
2:39 PM
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The C, F and G of a simple blues in C are triads. The notes C, F and G are the root notes of the C, F and G triads.
All triads are chords (but not all chords are triads). The three chords your guitar player is telling you are all triads: F means F major (spelled F, A, C); Am means A minor (spelled A, C, E); G means G major (spelled G, B, D).
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toxic_tone
165 posts
Jun 07, 2011
2:46 PM
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OOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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toxic_tone
166 posts
Jun 07, 2011
2:49 PM
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so each of these triads are like a small scale? can i play any scale that starts or ends with the triads?
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timeistight
60 posts
Jun 07, 2011
3:00 PM
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No, they aren't scales; they're chords. They are built *from* scales.
You can build triads (and other chords) on each note of any diatonic scale by simply stacking thirds.
Let's take C mixolydian for example. The notes in the scale are C, D, E, F, G, A and Bb. We can build a triad on each note: C major (C, E, G), D minor (D, F, A), E diminished (E, G, Bb), F major (F, A, C), G minor (G, Bb, D) A minor (A, C, E) and Bb major (Bb, D, F).
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2011 3:02 PM
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hvyj
1428 posts
Jun 07, 2011
3:15 PM
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To oversimplify, playing every other note of the scale gives you triads, which are thirds. if you stack them up (play them at the same time), they produce a chord. if you play notes of a chord (or triad) one at a time, it's called an arpeggio.
All chords are not triads but all triads are chords. triads are the simplest form of chords. If you play TWO notes at the same time time it's called a "double stop."
Last Edited by on Jun 07, 2011 3:18 PM
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toxic_tone
167 posts
Jun 07, 2011
3:29 PM
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so how can i apply this to improv?
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timeistight
61 posts
Jun 07, 2011
3:34 PM
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By making sure you know how each note you play relates to the chord you're playing it over.
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toxic_tone
168 posts
Jun 07, 2011
3:44 PM
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can i use these triads to make fast runs or diff licks?
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timeistight
62 posts
Jun 07, 2011
3:49 PM
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Fast runs: sure. What are "diff licks"?
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toxic_tone
170 posts
Jun 07, 2011
4:03 PM
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diffrent licks .
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hvyj
1429 posts
Jun 07, 2011
6:00 PM
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Yeah. Throw in a chord tone here and there besides or in addition to scale tones and your playing becomes more sophisticated. Then you can start to use extension tones (chord tones above the 7th) which makes things even more interesting. Nice way to move beyond the SOS.
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nacoran
4179 posts
Jun 07, 2011
6:13 PM
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I wasn't really sure what you meant by triads, but if they are a 3 note chord, what you would do is make riffs using those three notes while that band was on that chord, so, for instance, while the band was playing a I chord in the key of C you would improvise using the C, E, and G's on your harp, so instead of chugging on a I chord you could play something like
C3-C3-E3 C3-E3-G3 C3-E3-G3 C3-E3-G3 E3-G3-C4 G3-E3-C3
C3-C3-E3 (although that might run longer than the four bars before they switch keys and people might ask you who died. Actually, I think that riff works better as a first position in Bb instead of C.)
Anyway, to stay with the C example, when the band switches to a IV chord you'd count up to the fourth note of the scale C, D, E, F (the key of C has no sharps or flats, that's one of the reasons people like to teach theory with it.) So, F would be the root of your triad. To figure out the F triad you'd count up, starting on the F, by thirds, so F (not G) A (not B) C. So while they are playing the IV chord you can improvise a riff using F, A and C. I suspect you are already doing this a lot by ear, but knowing the why will help you communicate with the other people in the band much more easily.
If you memorize what holes on the harp (including the different bends) go with which chords/triads, then you can just ask the guitar player for the key and the chord progression and start playing. (There are all sorts of chord progressions- 12 bar is one, but there are others. If you look on YouTube for Axis of Awesome there is a video where they show 36 major pop hits that all use the same (non-blues) chord progression. There are actually way more than that. Most pop songs use the same progression, so if you learn that on top of 12 bar you can play all sorts of songs just knowing the key and counting the bars.
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Nate
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toxic_tone
171 posts
Jun 07, 2011
6:28 PM
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ok i want you as my teacher Nate! wow i see so clearly!!
lmao perfect thought before bed. ill be up all night. wow thanks man. you rock!.
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nacoran
4183 posts
Jun 07, 2011
10:57 PM
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I'm glad it made sense toxic. It may be the monkey theory though. I bang out enough posts so that sooner or later one of them is bound to look like Shakespeare. :)
If you want to visualize it I think the most useful thing anyone can do to learn theory is to sit down in front of a piano, or even just draw one on a piece of paper although a real one, or even just one of the ones on a computer that you can click with your mouse works better.
The key of C, with no flats or sharps, is all white keys, starting on C. Each note on a piano (the next key over, whether it's white or black) is a half step. If you can find the C on a piano and learn to draw the keyboard (or have one handy to play) you can see all sorts of patterns.
A major key is the same pattern of playing half and whole steps no matter what note you start on. If you were stuck on a deserted island with only a piano and the knowledge that major keys have the same pattern you could sit down and figure out all of the keys by counting the pattern for a C scale and then just moving it over one note and starting the same pattern again. If you spend a couple hours just staring at the way the notes are laid out and figure out a couple chords so you see how they work it really starts to make visual sense.
After a couple hours on the piano you get a eureka moment and a lot of the other stuff starts to make sense. Unfortunately, in my musical career I took two weeks of piano lessons at school and developed carpel tunnel. Then I dropped out and when I went back I didn't do music. 15+ years later I picked up a harmonica and all that theory that I didn't understand before sort of made sense. If someone had just handed me a harmonica way back then and my wrists had held out for a couple more weeks it might have clicked and I'd be way farther along than I am now.
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Nate
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toxic_tone
172 posts
Jun 08, 2011
4:49 AM
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yea i have been playing piano for a little while. i do that where i draw a piano because that is the only way i can visulize it. i have a good understanding about scales. i just wasnt sure how to apply the triads to my playing. right now im trying to remember what notes are on each of my harmonicas. i can overblow on the 4 5 6 the 5 6 easier then the 4. and i can bend all the bends easly. so now i just need to remember all the notes on a specific harmonica.
i think that i can play all this stuff just by ear with out thinking about it. however i want to be able to play any song by just having the guitar player tell me which chords he is playing. im kinda limited to the blues scale. the rest i just learned from what sounds good to my ear. i wish i would of learned this stuff first before i started playing. o well.... practice practice practice
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hvyj
1430 posts
Jun 08, 2011
6:25 AM
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"right now im trying to remember what notes are on each of my harmonicas"
Go to the Suzuki World Class Harmonicas site. Click on enter. Then there will be a banner at the top. Click on notation charts and they have diagrams for the notes available on all 12 keys of Richter tuned diatonic harmonicas. very useful and helpful as a reference.
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toxic_tone
173 posts
Jun 08, 2011
6:41 AM
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thanks man i use www.overblow.com and click on scale n chord finder. it does the same i think. ill check Suzuki worlk class, here in a sec. thanks hvjy.
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nacoran
4184 posts
Jun 08, 2011
9:05 AM
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I discovering that thinking about the holes in terms of the chords they are part of and the chord number instead of focusing on the name of the note helps. Of course, it changes if you change position, but knowing what chord number you are playing helps you later down the road. Chord progressions are important for writing songs and getting familiar with the terms for them help when you start using them to plot out a song. Certain chords progress well to other chords.
My grandfather used to tell a joke about a father and son living together. Both of them played piano. One night they had a big argument and the son stormed out. He didn't return until after his father had gone to bed. He stormed over to the piano and played a loud IV chord followed by a loud V chord, and then stormed off to bed and waited. Sure enough, after few minutes he heard his father tiptoeing down the stairs and playing the I chord.
The IV V progression leaves music sounding unresolved until you hit the I. The vii can play nicely to the I too. The step I'm on, I guess, is learning which chords lead well to which other chords. I can do it by ear a lot, but I want to sit down and learn more options.
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Nate
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toxic_tone
174 posts
Jun 08, 2011
10:13 AM
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thats cool too i want to learn that as well. so a vii chord can play well with iv and v chords? so im guessing that the vii chord would have its own triads that make up the vii chord correct?
if so can i use this on any blues song?
also lets say im going to play a 12bar blues in G which would be G C D. when im in the G chourd i could play any scale in G? or only a blues scale in G. and could i do the same to C and D ?
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nacoran
4186 posts
Jun 08, 2011
10:27 AM
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There is a pretty good explanation of what progressions sound good on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression
If I'm remembering my theory correct we were often told to play chords using 4 notes, doubling one note, so you might play C3 E3 G3 C4. (There were other options, and combinations, like G2 C2 C3 E3. The triads were the basic unit you used to make chords, then there were all sorts of inversions.
You could play any of the notes in the triad, but not the whole scale, for instance, if you play G A D over a a G chord it will sound really dissonant, which most of the time, isn't what you want.
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Nate
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