Long time lurker, first time poster. I've been playing harp for a year, but have been taking it seriously for about 6 months now. I'm thinking about buying a (somewhat) serious harp rig. I'm planning on buying a blues jr. because it would do a decent job doubling with guitar and harp. I don't gig or anything, I just play guitar and harp casually with friends. I bought a green bullet a little while ago, but I really want something closer to professional quality. I really have no idea where to start. Do I need to go to a builder? Their sites confuse me quite honestly. Do I have to buy something vintage? I saw Andy J Forest recently and thought his tone was amazing. He had a really cool, smaller Bluexlab mic. Anyone else own one of these? I realize this is a loaded question, but honestly any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
My favorite amplified tones are Paul Butterfield, Junior Wells, and Andy J Forest in a live setting if that makes any difference. Thanks!!
I've tried Andy's mic-I liked it a lot. Of course, you'll hear it ad nauseum in response to your post that 'the tone comes from you'-well, that's true. Andy has great tone. I've heard him thru many mics, and the Bluexlab sounds a little different than Shure elements or Astatic ceramics, etc., but it's biggest advantage is it's size. If you're in New Orleans or catch him elsewhere on tour, ask him-he's a super nice and very interesting guy to talk to. Andy attends our club meetings from time to time as well.
If you like Butterfield, he played thru Shure Unidyne 545 mics mostly, which is the predecessor of the SM57, used by soundmen everywhere to mic instruments and amps.
Junior Wells? The blues history buffs will correct me if I'm wrong, but all the footage or pics I have ever seen have Junior playing thru vocal mics, right into the p.a.
A lot of the famous players will sound recognizeably like themselves regardless of the equipment they play through.
There are reputable mic builders and refurbishers that are members on this forum-Greg Heumann and RHarley are two-that do quality work.
Sometimes vintage isn't all it seems to be, as the elements can be shot, wiring bad, etc. Go with a reputable mic reseller/builder for guaranteed good results. Ron Sunshine on Ebay(Deluxe somethingorother is his handle)is another, also TechnoBird. ---------- Todd L. Greene
Crescent City Harmonica Club
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2011 2:52 PM
Also, you'll want to try some of these mics out whenever you can to see how they feel in your hand. Plus, good cupping technique to get that amplified tone you seek will take a lot of work. Another thing:a mic that sounds great thru one amp, might sound lackluster thru a different amp.
I know this doesn't make your selection process any easier, but that's the brass tacks! ---------- Todd L. Greene
I've only been playing since Christmas, and don't have lots of time to practice. When I got my tax return I splurged on an amp and mic and have been buying harps every week or two. Nothing wrong with that, but I really hardly ever touch the electric stuff yet. I knew I didn't HAVE to get it but I figured if I didn't do it then, I wouldn't get that stuff for quite a while, and I don't regret it.
Bottom line is if you have the money AND you know what you want, of course it's good to be able to practice amped. I do keep an eye on ebay for cheap mikes and such. I suppose it's like any other hobby, you will spend some money and make mistakes until you figure out what you like, what works for you, and what you consider is good gear for YOUR money. Just don't spend a real fortune on any one thing until you really know that's what you want. You said you play guitar also so you've probably been through this "gear thing" when you're new to something so just think back to that.
---------- It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
To get Paul Butterfield and Jr. Wells type of tone, a PA style mic like a Shure 545 is perfect. I happen to like Greg Heumann's 545 Ultimate (Blows Me Away Productions). I really like the Butterfield/Wells style quite a bit myself. A 545 and a Fender amp work very well together.
Personally, i think Green Bullets sound like crap, but I'm sure there are a whole lot of others who will disagree with me about this. I also think Green Bullets have a slower response than a quality PA style mic.
A Blues Jr. is a high gain amp which requires tube swaps to be usable for harp. Tube swaps may diminish its tone when used for guitar. And the BJ only has 1 input jack.
The Princeton Reverb Reissue requires no tube swaps, has 2 input jacks and IMHO is not as shrill sounding when used for harp. The reverb is also superior on the PRRI. Personally, I prefer the tone of the PRRI over the BJ for harp and it's not as prone to feed back. I also happen to prefer 10" speakers for harp. The PRRI has a 10. The BJ has a 12. I sold my BJ to get a PRRI when they came out. No regrets.
I'm in a similar boat. Been playing seriously for about a year now. Just ordered a Shure 545 from Amazon and I'm borrowing an amp from a friend until I can order my VHT Special 6, probably in two weeks or so. You could always upgrade the Shures if you send them to Greg Heumann. Check out blowsmeaway.com. He also has a PDF guide to everything you need to know about amplifying a harmonica. Good luck. ---------- "A harmonica is not just a souped up kazoo" -Mo Rocca
Last Edited by on Jun 01, 2011 4:59 PM
i thought greg heumann would chime in here! not that the guys who have already posted don't make great points. greg is a go-to guy, very knowledgeable about mics- what kind does what and why, he's also a harp player, and he does some of the best work on building and modding existing mics.
i don't know if you sing as well as play, but maybe a good first mic would be a bone stock sm57 or a 545. either of these mics are good vocal mics aside from their unidirectional feature which makes them work horses for micing amps and doing vocal duties as well. both also will plug into any p.a. and sound good for harp. from clean and clear to a more compressed bark, this class of mic can do a wide range of things for you sound-wise. whatever mic you decide on, it should be impedance friendly to whatever amp you choose ie, high or low z depending on the amp. blues junior is a decent amp esp with a bit of delay between mic and amp to fatten it up a bit. an sm57 or 545 can be run to a tube amp with a matching transformer as well. greg does some nice mods to that class of mic- i'm still scheming on how to get one done myself! the green bullet is not a bad mic its own self. i got very lucky and came across a serious dm element that i installed in my bullet shell years ago and it's one of 3 mics i use often, the other 2 being a crystal powered custom bullet and a e-v m43u modded by greg to high z and with a volume pot added. the e-v is what i generally use most since it has the volume pot and a big sound in a fairly small package. it's about the diameter of the ball end of an sm58.
Thanks for all the great replies, guys! Honestly, I always pictured buying some type of bullet mic just because it has the cool factor, but I will seriously look into the Shure vocal mics because tone is what matters in the end.
I realize I'm not going to automatically sound like Paul Butterfield or anything like that. I just listed those tones as a reference point for what I'm into. I love pretty much every tone I've ever heard from Butterfield. As far as Junior Wells goes, I've never been a huge fan of his tone in general until I picked up the Hoodoo Man Blues album, which I think has a fantastic sound. I should also add that I really love Alan Wilson's tone on the Hooker and Heat album.
I understand what people are saying about not buying anything yet, but the Green Bullet I have just doesn't sound that great, the chord into the mic feels really fragile, it weighs a ton, and overall just doesn't inspire me to practice at all. I play all the time acoustically, but the Green Bullet just doesn't make electric playing that fun for me personally.
I know the importance of trying stuff out first. I spent months and months doing research before I bought my high end guitars. I guess my question is, how can I try out different harp mics? I don't really know any other harp players. How did you guys try stuff out before you made any big purchases?
Buy a jt30 at musicians friend when they're on sale for $50, and get an old CM element put in it. You can get the conversion gasket online, and an element off of ebay. The guy at fat dog amps was offering the service for your mic for $69, and I'm sure if you sent him a jt30 and the proper gasket, he'd be glad to fit a CM element in there for you. I don't blame you for not liking your green bullet. I felt the sound wasn't that bad, but it was so damn big, heavy, and smooth(slippy), that I was glad to let it go.
@Sedandelivery:"Honestly, I always pictured buying some type of bullet mic just because it has the cool factor,"
DO NOT buy piece of gear because it's what a harp player is supposed to use. Have a REASON to pick particular gear based on what it contributes to HOW YOU WANT TO SOUND. i cannot get my sound out of most bullet mics and i cannot perform up to my capabilities using one. This may or may not be true for others, but that's the way it is for me. Personally, i don't comprehend the love affair so many harp players have with bullet mics, which, as you point out, are usually not very high quality mics to begin with. You want a mic that you are comfortable using and which responds well to your style of play and gives you the tone you are after.
I've been playing harp live in public for over 30 years. A couple of things I've learned from my live performance experiences are: 1) for as long as I've been playing, i should play better than i do, and 2) most of the conventional wisdom and popular folklore about what equipment works well for amplified harp playing is just flat out impractical on stage with other amplified instruments in a real world live performance setting.
Get an XLR cord and an IMT and go to a music store with your harps and try out different mics through an amp or PA they have in the store and find out what sounds good to you. Most music stores will let you do this.
The point is to find a mic that responds well to YOUR style of playing and that gives you the tone YOU are after. Don't pick a mic because of its supposed cool factor or because some other harp player (or salesman) thinks that is what a harmonica player should use. Get a mic that helps you achieve YOUR sound and don't worry about it if no other harp player in the world uses that same type of mic so long as it's right for you.
That being said the Shure 545 and SM 57 are high quality, rugged, harp friendly mics that are worth checking out for starters if only as a reference point. XLR mics that are "directional" and have cardioid pickup patterns usually will have proximity effect which can work very well for amplified harp playing when properly cupped.
Btw, some harp players say certain bass drum mics sound good for harp. i have no personal experience with these, but while you're at the music store, you should be able to try one.
As far as amps are concerned, Butterfield often used a Fender Super Reverb which has 10" speakers. IMHO 10s respond nicely to a cupped mic and are tighter and have more punch for harp than 12s. Also, I think 10s don't get as shrill for harp as 12s sometimes do, but opinions may vary about this.
Good luck and have fun!
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2011 12:59 PM
Thanks again for the responses! I feel like everything is slowly becoming clearer. Thanks to you guys, now I'm daydreaming about an Ultimate Series 545 with a Bulletizer haha. But I'm just getting carried away with that. For now, I realized that my friend has an SM-57, so I'll definitely run that through my amp at home and see how I like the overall sound and feel of it.
I do have a question though, and I have searched around for the answer but I'm still a little unclear. If I want to plug an SM57 into my Fender Champ tube amp, I would need a low impedance XLR cable and an impedance matching transformer, correct? What about a 545? Those can switch between lo and hi impedance right? Would I need a high impedance XLR cable and that's it? Would I need two different XLRs? Would I still need the IMT? Sorry, still a little confused.
Okay, to plug a 57 into a Champ you need an XLR cord and an IMT.
A 545's internal wiring can be reconfigured from low impedance to high impedance. If you buy a new 545 it will come wired for low impedance and you use the same IMT as you do for the SM57. Personally, i prefer this set up. My performing mic is a low impedance 545 Ultimate. i love it and i gig a lot so I actually have two of them (one as a spare). Highly recommended.
If you have your 545 rewired for high impedance, it will be a little higher output and a little dirtier. You won't need an IMT. You will need a suitably wired XLR cord with a quarter inch jack on the end that goes into the amp. I have a high impedance 545 which i had Greg modify for use with a standard guitar cord so i don't have to mess with what kind of XLR cord to use.
i prefer an IMT that has a short piece of cable between the connectors. These are sometimes referred to as a "rat tail" IMT. Peavey makes a good one, but there are others that work just as well.
FYI, a Bulletizer makes gripping a 545 or SM57 like gripping a bullet. Personally, i don't like it, but some players like it a lot since the 57s and 545s don't have a "head" to put your hands around.
Btw, you may have feedback issues with your Champ. One of the reasons I like my 545 Ultimate so much is the integral volume control allows you to reduce the output of the mic which means you can turn the amp up to its "sweet spot" without feeding back. In general, using the #2 input of an amp that has two input jacks will help control feedback, too.
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2011 3:52 PM
2) The Ultimate mics, the Bulletizer mentioned above - I make those.
3) I have written a primer called "All About Harmonica Mics, and then some" which discusses mic selection, amps, tone, etc. You might find it helpful - and if not, well, free advice is worth at least what you paid for it. You can download the PDF from here.
Allow me to add something: IMHO, the single most important piece of gear after the harmonica itself is a good quality harp friendly mic. Let me use my 545 Ultimate and i can get decent tone out of any equipment: my amp, the PA, your amp, Greg's amp, whatever. Ok, so I've been playing long enough to have decent technique and that's part of it. But as far as i am concerned it's never too soon to get a good quality mic, especially if you know what sort of tone you are after.
A few years back I was in the same boat as you. My first rig was a new Green Bullet (GB) and a Blues Jr. Practiced for a year or so and thought that this rig was ok but I wanted more of a “Chicago Sound”. I swapped tubes and bought a vintage GB and this improved things some. I still wanted more so I swaped out the speaker for a “vintage like” speaker from Weber. Again, this improved my sound but still not in my opinion the real Chicago sound. Now about a month ago I was at a party with a band and the harp player (30 year player) is using a BJ and new GB. His rig was stock with a Kinder anti-feedback peddle only. His sound was Chicago blues!! I had my rig their and played also. I had nice compliments on my sound but it was not quite the same amped sounded of the more experienced player. As many have said before it is mostly the player. My advice is to just get something ...use the suggestions here on the forum and practice for a year. It takes time to get good amped tone. Here is an example of what I get out of my rig ...so judge my advice accordingly. Understand also this is just a jam session with some friends who had only played this song a couple of times. We are weekend warriors.
Thanks again for all the advice! This is pretty much exactly the kind of discussion I was looking for. I know you can find similar info with the forum search and all that, but it's really nice to get some personal attention, and I really appreciate it!
I know it will take a lot of practice to get good tone with any rig and I'm prepared for that, but as I guitar player I know what buying a real Gibson Les Paul did for my playing and how inspiring a professional quality instrument is to play. Right now I love playing acoustically, but playing amped is more of a chore than anything else, and I don't like the sound I get when playing out with friends. Now that I have a better understanding about what goes into choosing a mic, I am definitely going to experiment as much as possible. I'm really looking forward to trying some of those Shure mics to see how they feel and sound.
