Before I get beaten about the torso and head with socks full of Ivory soap bars, I know I can probably dig a bit for the info, but I lack the time to look and then decide if the info i found is even useful...Here goes-
I am playing a gig as a hired gun this weekend at a big festival about 5-6 hours from home(Shreveport, LA), and I'm borrowing another player's Bassman. Once we arrive, I probably won't have any time to experiment with settings. Can one of you Bassman owners steer me in the direction of some good settings to get me in the ballpark and save the trial and error? I like it bassy, overdriven and punchy(in summary:BALLSY), if that helps, and I'll be able to utilize it at pretty loud voulme, since it's an outdoor giant stage. Supposedly, feedback with this one isn't an issue, and I use a mic that causes very little feedback(EV631B). Thanks in advance!
---------- Todd
Last Edited by on May 26, 2011 10:55 AM
Bass on 7, Middle on 3, Treble off, Presence on 6, Bright Channel (2) Volume on 6, Normal Channel ((1) Volume on 3-5. Mic into input 1 of Normal Channel. That should get you in the ball park. Then just fine tune to taste.
Last Edited by on May 26, 2011 10:59 AM
Try this for a William Clark type sound. This is very loud and cuts well.
Presence full up Bass 5 Middle 3 to 9. Set as high as possible before feedback Treble off Plug in normal channel. Turn vol 1 as required. You might only get to two! Vol 2 up to 8 ---------- The Pentatonics Myspace Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
Nah, i don't think it's modded. I am also going to carry a handful of preamp tubes-12ay, 12au and 12at, but i'm taking the guy's word that it isn't a feedback mosnter, plus I doubt I will even have time to mess with tubes.. ---------- Todd
Yes-like on the Super Sonny,Cruncher,etc. It's a more "brown" sound,if you can dig that. Plus it gives you more volume capabilities and adjustments,making the Volume Bright and Normal interactive.
I would start with Kingley's recommendations. Depending on speakers in the amp, I would also dial in some Treble. That is my own personal taste. ---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
Some good food for thought and honestly more options than I'll have time to experiment with, but thanks everyone-any option will save me time.
This past weekend at the Friday night Rooster's jam prior to HCH, I had the pleasure of playing thru DeakHarp's Bassman and in my opinion it sounds EXACTLY how a Bassman should sound for harp. I dug up an old thread that describes his tubing, but not his settings. That amp sounded AWESOME-very responsive to cupping effects and it it downright rocks when tight-cupped, very sensitive to changes in dynamics, etc. The best sounding amp I heard this past weekend, hands down.
"Here is what i run in my 59 RI from left to righ 5U4 RCA . 5881 Tunsol 12AX7 GE 12Au7 GE 12Au7 GE ... All tubes are NOS .. Except for the 5881 ... i can get the gain in both channels up to 6 with a pacth cord to jump the channels ..Treb on 3 Bass on 12 Mid on 3.5 Presence 3.5 ... I varry the Mid/Pres a little higher if i need to cut more ... also the Treble i might jack up to 4 sometimes ...if i want to Cut real good ....the pacth wire jumping the channels are in channel 1 high imput .. criss crossed to channel 2 in the Bright .. I plug my Mic in channel 1 Normal ..."
I know...too many options! Haha...I will be getting in a van with the amp already loaded early Saturday morning, driving 5-6 hours to Shreveport and arriving at the fairgrounds, with probably little or no time to mess with the amp, then playing a 2-hour gig with guys I have yet to meet, based strictly on recommendations from a guy who has played with them in the past but can't make the gig. T
The settings above will still be an educated guess versus me just starting at 1 and trying different inputs. ---------- Todd
Last Edited by on May 26, 2011 12:41 PM
Todd, I agree with you that Deak's amp/mic combo was my favorite to hear or to play through all weekend... and about my favorite amp of any I have ever played through, including my own amps.
i'd go w/ 7Limit. 1 and 1/2 volume to start. i'm guessing open air. if so, bass,mid,and treb will have some play and be more forgiving. especially the mids where your crunch comes from.
since the bass will have lots of play, be careful not to over do it and get mud. ----------
MP doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Thanks guys-that gives me plenty to go with, and I'm certain I can dial something in such as the above suggestions quickly and be satisfied ith it...I gotta point out that Beltone(see post above) is the owner of said amp, and obviously didn't like the 'put holes in the speakers' idea, although it gave me a good laugh.
Yes, MP, it's going to be a big outdoor festival(Mudbug Madness in Shreveport, LA)with at least three stages-hence my borrowing a big amp to push air and sound as good as I can. I owned a RI about 12 years ago, and somewhat regret selling it. That was long before I knew anything about tube subs or even how to set it-I had no harmonica peers at the time.
Doug-I think that would probably be the consensus if we took a poll! That Super Cruncher was sort of a muddy mess, but it wasn't mine to jack with the settings. Remember in Rooster's? Turns out a tube had fallen out. But, even when he had it fixed at Foxfire, it plaed in comparison to Deak's amp. ---------- Todd
Last Edited by on May 27, 2011 4:56 AM
Where you set the treble will depend on preamp tube compliment, mic used & tone desired.
Todd, you already said that you preferred the Clarke/West Coast type tone...for this I'd keep the treble low/off. I tend to use either treble, or mid...the mid tone has better punch, more grind, notes are tighter, less compressed, better nore separation on fast licks & runs. Winding up the treble tends to give a tone with better fidelity/clarity, but usually more compressed...doesn't always carry with a loud band so well. These are really the two basic voices that the bassman has "middy tone" & "mid scooped" (tolex Fenders are usually more scooped in the mids irrespective of how the mid pot is set...the 5F6A tends to always have some middy rasp).
Mid doesn't really do what the knob says in the truest sense, it really has more of an effect on dynamics, tightening the sound as you wind it up, the higher you turn it, the more it deactivates, or overides the bass & treble controls.
Bass treble & mid all influence each other, so running all of them up high means that they start to negate each other.
These observations relate to the 59 RI circuit, with a typical hi-Z mic, with a reasonable range in frequency response.
My starting point is usually presence full up, treble off, bright vol 6-12, mid 4-6, then enough bass to fill out the sound without muddying everything up (if you play fast choppy lines you might find that you need less than if playing long, singing phrases, as additional bass can make the sound blurry, & adversely affect note separation)...might be from 5-12, normal vol - whatever the knob ends up pointing at before feedback or raggedy tone sets in, could be anywhere from 2-5 depending on mic & amp/bias/plate voltage in question.
If you have to make holes in your speakers to get a decent tone, something is very wrong...no matter how much respect & admiration I might have for the late, great Cesar Diaz.
Last Edited by on May 27, 2011 7:10 AM
And no, I won't be drilling any holes in the speakers!!! Haha, I thought that was a joke, but I can't say I have ever tried it...nor will I! ---------- Todd
Now I have a real '59 Bassman and I use all NOS tubes of the numbers they call for and the first preamp tube ina real Bassman is a 12AY7/6072, and the Bassman RI's use 12AX7/7025, and that can cause feedback quicker and make the amp more trebly.
Based on using a JT30 mic with a MC151 crystal or MC127 ceramic, this is where my settings aree (remember, tho, a real Bassman uses audio taper pots and reissues use linear pots and so with linear pots, you have to be on the numbers to do anything with it, and the volume setting will probably have to be a notch or two higher. I'm always plugged into the #1 input in the normal channel.
VOLUME --- Normal channel --- 2 TO 2-1/2 to 3 VOLUME --- Bright channel --- 6 TREBLE --- Totally turned off MIDDLE --- 3 no higher than 4 BASS --- 6 or 7 and absolutely no higher (on real Bassmans, there are many different useable settings between the numbers and reissues don't allow for that) PRESENCE --- 8
Another thing to remember is that these settings may not work with certain mics. If you use a GB mic, you may need to turn the bass up a bit more and with some ball/stick mikes, the treble may need to be higher.
BTW, this amp has NEVER been modified in any way at all. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Here is the original response from Mason on an article written by Adam Gussow for Blues Access magazine-
That "rabid-dog" sound
I was happy to read Adam Gussow's "Journeyman's Road" column (BLUES ACCESS #29). In it, he compliments me on the tone that emits from my amplifier, describing it as a "re-issue Fender Bassman that barked, woofed and cawed like a rabid dog with a shrieking raven caught in its' throat. We'd never heard anything like it."
I had cut the speakers radically, putting three-inch-long slices at the 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock positions. I am highly in favor of "scientifically" cutting speaker cones for the sake of the amp sound. This gives the amp a raw, warm distortion.
However, the tone Adam and others admired comes from inside of me, with a little help from my equipment set-up and a life full of the blues.
Blues lovers from around the world sorely miss the Dan Lynch Blues Bar. Thanks to Adam Gussow for his writings, expletives and all.
Mason Casey New York, New York
Last Edited by on May 27, 2011 8:15 AM
Well, I definitely won't try slicing my buddy's speakers up, but it's interesting that someone actually does this. It sounds like it would cause catastropic failure and just make the cone totally separate from the magnet. Might be an interesting experiment to try on a cheapie speaker one day though:make a recording with speaker intact, then slit it, and do it again. ---------- Todd
It has no effect on speaker longevity. Mason cut my speakers in my Bassman RI back around 1997-I used those speakers gigging and jamming for 10 years-quite a few guitar players used it as well-all with very positive results and comments. I still have those speakers-I kept them and sold the Bassman with newer RI Jensen speakers. The cuts are only a few inches long,from the middle of the speaker paper,never coming near the few inches of the outer rib or the center near the cone itself.
Before the invention of fuzz boxes. The Kinks, Link Wray, Jimi Hendrix are all supposed to have cut or stuck holes through speakers to get them to distort.
@tmf714 What effect did cutting the speakers have ? Do you still use them ?
Cutting slits/holes in speakers is always frowned upon by most... I say it makes an amp sound Kick Ass. The late great Bob Shatkin suggested it to me many years ago,in front of Dan Lynch Blue Bar NYC, and it still is a cutting edge idea( no pun intended) Those opposed to the radical idea may be surprised to find out,it's an ol' Little Walter secret(Jimi Hendrix and Link Ray can't be wrong either)
*Thanks tmf714 for posting passage from Adam's book*
Most importantly BALLSY tone comes from inside YOU man
It's the same principle all the guitar greats from the 70's used-it gets the speaker to distort easily. I sold the Bassman to but one of Rod Piazza's personal 4x10 HarpKing amps-I may try installing those Blue Frame Alnicos just to see how it sounds!
mcblues wrote: "Those opposed to the radical idea may be surprised to find out,it's an ol' Little Walter secret"
Hi Mason, just curious, what's the provenance regarding this link to being a LW secret?
Any opposition I have to the idea stems mainly from the speakers collectively being the most expensive part of a Bassman amp (especially blue Emis, which are no longer available new - but I guess if you have speakers you don't like the sound of & aren't bothered about recouping at resale, it's worth a try), plus as 7Limit says, a good sounding bassman under drive can often be fat & thick & at the edge of good intelligibility with properly functioning speakers...but hey, if it sounds good, it is good, as long as the full consequences are appreciated. I know of other guys who have suggested loosening off speaker nuts, a little, to soften the sound. Again, not something I'd be quick to recommend, but easily returned to stock if required.
So, the gig came and went this past weekend, and it went quite well. The amp is a RI LTD, and the white lettering on the chrome is almost completely worn off, so the amp now has stickers that say B, M, T, B, B, etc. below the respective knobs. I had no time to try anything prior to setting up onstage when the other band was offloading, so I set them knobs more or less like Deak had said. I had a jumper to put in too. I forgot to grab my 12ay tube before we made the 5-hour trek to the gig, so I'm assuming it was all stock 12 ax's. I let the amp warm up on standby, then turned it on. I opened the mic volume and it was loud(aided by the fact that a soundman already had the amp mic'd into the HUGE PA system, with two monstrous bass floor cabs and towers. I put it back on standby and put the jumper in, then tried it again. without fooling with settings, it was on the threshold of feedback, so I yanked it, and mildly adjusted the two volumes a bit, as I was by far the loudest on that huge stage. It wasn't quite reaching the breakup as quickly as I would have liked, but it sounded great. Perhaps a bit more mids would have done it for me, but hey, it sounded GOOD as it was. I worked in a little treble, like maybe up to 2, and it was perfect to my ears EQ-wise. No feedback issues whatsoever, unless I wanted it! This band consisted of a guitarist on a Tele, playing mostly clean, a bassist with an acoustic bass, and a washboard player(who stunk, but that's another story), so I had to dial back my playing volume to not annhilate them. It sounded good together. We got many compliments and invites to more events up that way. I received several compliments alone on my playing and tone. We got payed 2 Benjamins each for two hours of music, had beer and ice water brought to us at our beck and call, and overall had a blast. Thanks to all for your input and suggestions.
P.s.-and I made sure I texted the owner of the amp saying how skeptical I was of cutting all the speakers, but that it sounded awesome once I did it... ---------- Todd
Last Edited by on May 31, 2011 11:27 AM
For those of you who may be interested, those Eminence made blue alnico magnet speakers used on the early Bassman reissues, the early 4-10 Blues DeVilles, and early Pro Juniors are available from Angela Instruments at this link below:
http://angela.com/speakers.aspx
The ones issued under the Eminence brand name (same speaker) is the Eminence Legend 102.
Those speakers sound much closer to a real P10R than the P10R reissues being presently used on the newer Bassman RI's, BDV ri's and Super Reverb ri's (the original SR's NEVER had P10R Jensens in them ever). ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I would advise you to ring Angela instruments rather than use the web based shopping cart, if interested - a pal of mine tried buying a set of Blue Emis from them, they charged his card, than e-mailed to say they didn't have any, only the boxes, which had ceramic speakers, not alnicos in them. They refunded him, of course, but just because they show on the website does not mean that they are in stock, especially not in any numbers. They haven't been made by Eminence for some years now.
The black Emi 102 are still available as far as I know...35W each with a capton voice coil former, rather than paper for the blue 25W model. They are a little darker. less lively than the blues but still good speakers, John Kinder used them in his Harpking amps.
