MrVerylongusername
1616 posts
Mar 17, 2011
8:21 AM
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One for harmonica historians...
I've always understood that 'Richter' simply referred to blow notes on the top reedplate, and draw notes on the bottom with two reeds to one air channel.
Thus Richter, by that definition, is simply a description of reed placement - as are the Knittlinger and Viennese system - and a richter tuned harp could be a minor key, solo tuned even a Powerbender or Melody Maker.
But the term Richter is used to describe actual note layout. Is that just an example of semantic drift - get enough people to use a word in a new way and thus change its meaning?
If so, did 'standard' note layout ever have another name? (or a name at all?)
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chromaticblues
709 posts
Mar 17, 2011
1:34 PM
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No that was a German guys name that invented what we call the diatonic harmonica. So the power bender is solo tuned are not richter tuned harp. The melody maker and harmonic minor harps are variations of the richter tuning! Solo tuned harp is the layout for the chromatic.
Before the Richter harps there wasn't a standard. There were alot of German clock makers different versions of harps. Some are long gone, but if you buy Steve Bakers Harp hand book. He has a section in there that covers most of what your asking about. I bought over 20 years ago and thought it was the best harmonica related book by far!
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MrVerylongusername
1621 posts
Mar 17, 2011
4:22 PM
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from Pat Missin's site...
"So what about the so-called "Richter tuning". Actually, when we use the term "Richter System", strictly speaking we are describing the physical construction of the instrument, rather than the arrangement of notes. The Richter System harmonica has a comb sandwiched between two reedplates, the upper one with the blow reeds and the lower one with the draw reeds. Each chamber in the comb leads to a pair of reeds, one blow and one draw, with a single reed being sounded for each note of the scale. "
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
588 posts
Mar 17, 2011
4:36 PM
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Yes. Good point, verylong. The definition has changed and the original definition has become archaic. I suspect this has something to do with pretty much all diatonics being of Richter construction now. With this in mind, the original definition became useless as there were really no other constructions to differentiate it from, so the name applied to the one existing variable, note placement.
Language is a living thing. We dont use the original meaning of Richter anymore, just like we don't call indoor bathrooms "Garderobes" anymore.
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"There are only two things money can't buy - true love and homegrown tomatoes." - Lewis Grizzard
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MrVerylongusername
1622 posts
Mar 17, 2011
4:47 PM
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Yes that's what I thought.
I've just finished reading the whole of that Pat MIssin article (I should have known to go there first):
http://www.patmissin.com/ffaq/q37.html
very interesting - raises as many new questions as it answers!
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chromaticblues
712 posts
Mar 17, 2011
6:06 PM
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Mr. longname
I just read it and it says the same thing I said. Just in 5000 words!
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nacoran
3900 posts
Mar 17, 2011
6:54 PM
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So if Richter once meant the basic sandwich design does that mean there were other designs in the harmonica family? (I want to try turning the reeds 90 degrees.)
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Nate
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MrVerylongusername
1623 posts
Mar 17, 2011
7:22 PM
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It says.. roughly speaking... that
noone knows with any certainty who Richter was. There were at least 4 different, probably unrelated, Richters discussed - Josef, Anton, Johan and Ludwig.
Noone can say with any certainty what he is supposed to have invented: The two thing that bear his name both seem to predate the date that Richter harmonicas were first mentioned
The conclusion being that neither of the two things that bear his name are likely to be solely accredited to him - whoever he was.
Like I said - more questions than answers.
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MrVerylongusername
1624 posts
Mar 17, 2011
7:27 PM
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Nate - there are other designs, still common - Knittlinger and Viennese, but these are the systems used in chromatics and tremolos etc...
I think your idea has been done too. Technically speaking with blow and draw in the same hole it is Richter system, even if the sandwich reedplate construction differs.
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nacoran
3903 posts
Mar 17, 2011
8:25 PM
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My idea is that each reed could work with the reeds on either side of it. I suspect you'd need to isolate the air flow, maybe with finger holes on the back. I've thought of using accordion reeds to test it, but even used broken accordions are pricey. The idea is that with a helper reed pitched both above and below the pitch each reed could do more. It's more of a thought experiment than anything though. It could be really thin too!
How about a fretless (just one big giant hole on the front!) :)
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Nate
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
589 posts
Mar 17, 2011
9:22 PM
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Nacoran, yes. One that comes to mind are diatonics with only one reedplate, blow and draw. 10 reeds
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"There are only two things money can't buy - true love and homegrown tomatoes." - Lewis Grizzard
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chromaticblues
714 posts
Mar 18, 2011
8:44 AM
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It doesn't say that he was the first one to build a sandiwich style harp. I remember reading something about 20 years ago that stated they were other people do ing similiar things at the time, but these never went into production. They were just clock makers tyring to make money. The reason the diatonic that we call the richter tuning has endured the test of time was because of the note layout. The construction of the instrument was not his gruond breaking invention, but how he arranged the notes within it.
Granted I don't know any of this. I'm recalling what I thought to be a fact. I was unaware of Pat Missin's confusing account of what happened! There must be some people in Germany that have stories a little more cohesive than that.
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BlueDoc
37 posts
Mar 18, 2011
8:39 PM
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@nacoran--
Pat Missin's site has a picture of a harmonica with the reeds turned 90 degrees, though maybe not in the way you were thinking about:
http://patmissin.com/gallery/gallery02.html
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BlueDoc
38 posts
Mar 20, 2011
10:56 AM
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Here's another harmonica from Pat Missin's collection that has its reeds turned 90 degrees from what we're used to...
http://patmissin.com/gallery/gallery10.html
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2011 10:58 AM
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
590 posts
Mar 20, 2011
4:39 PM
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Fact is we know very, very little about the origin of the harmonica. Most of the "history" that is well known about that period is stuff made up for modern marketing. We only have circumstantial evidence, nothing is known as a fact here.
There is this legend at Seydel that the Richter harmonicas in Haidau was actually a Seydel product, at least at some point way back. The old folks at Seydel never called that construction RIchter, they called it "Haider." I took all that with the same grain of salt that I take most tales I hear, until I saw this harmonica that was dug at a Civil War camp in Virginia. I date it around 1921, because it says "made in Germany"(bonus points to anybody who can tell me why that dates it). For me it was a smoking gun, it validated the Seydel/Richter story and that if any one of the several Richters who made harmonicas did, it was that one. I also found an example of that same harmonica being exhibited in AUstralia in 1879. Does that mean Seydel had taken RIchter over by then? Maybe.
HEre is the harmonica. It has Seydel and A. Richter on the same harmonica.
elkriverharmonicas.smfforfree3.com/index.php/topic,382.0.html
Would somebody please be kind enough to post the above as a link? I can't figure out how to.
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"There are only two things money can't buy - true love and homegrown tomatoes." - Lewis Grizzard
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2011 4:57 PM
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