MP
1480 posts
Mar 10, 2011
7:51 PM
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i understand hohner has a new model almost in production stage; i suppose they often do from the stuff todd parrott gets gifted- and it's called the Thunderbird.
i hear it has screws(thank god!) and a bamboo comb ala Crossovers. it's an MB type and.....get this, it only will come in low keys- like low low keys, double low this and that. i believe the covers are deeper too, so none of that plank! plank! stuff.
anyone hear this apocrypha of which i speak?
thanks----------
MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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nacoran
3879 posts
Mar 10, 2011
8:40 PM
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Hohner Thunderbird
The link is half in German and half in English, so I used Google to translate the rest.
A new dimension of the low notes! The Marine Band Thunderbird combines
Developments of the global market leader with an innovative Hohner
Cover design, inspired by the work of the most important
Harmonica customizers worldwide, Joe Filisko.
This model defines the standard for the diatonic harmonica
Low-and Superlow-keys again. The Thunderbird offers unprecedented
Volume and response in the low register and termination of
deep reeds is eliminated.
Break new ground with the meanest, fattest low-down sound around!
Product specifications
· Unique conical lower cover form prevents reed rattle
· Improved cover design eliminates sharp edges
· Special new reed profiles enable fast, consistent response even at low pitch
· Triple laquered water resistant laminated bamboo comb (patented) ensures
greater volume and faster response.
· Bevelled channel openings, rounded outer corners and de-burred reed plate
edges ensure greater playing comfort
· Practical soft case with zipper closure keeps dust out but lets air in
· Full constructional compatibility with Marine Band Deluxe and Crossover
models
· Tested and recommended by leading international players.
Establishing contact
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Nate
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Last Edited by on Mar 10, 2011 8:44 PM
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Sausagescoffer
33 posts
Mar 10, 2011
9:33 PM
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It looks like a Crossover with Low plates to me. I suppose it has to be if it's "fully compatible" with the Xover and MBD!
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MP
1481 posts
Mar 10, 2011
9:37 PM
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thanks nac!
ich spreche kein deutsch auf allen, so the translation was helpful.
filiskos' pic is on the box. an endorsement doesn't come better reccomended.----------
MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Todd Parrott
395 posts
Mar 11, 2011
12:03 AM
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Yes, I have one in low C. It's actually a prototype and I LOVE this harmonica. The bottom plate is deeper on the low end to eliminate reed rattle. I played a double low F as well, and liked it way better than the Seydels. The LLF Seydel I owned had valves, but the Hohner did not, and was much more responsive. I don't have much use for double low F, so I picked a low C. I use it for my work with with Mark Miller and the Blind Willie McTell gigs we do. One of the songs was recorded using a low C (Buddy Greene was the harp player on the album, but his low C was a custom from Filisko).
I suppose this is not top secret any longer since it's something you can google. I found this link also:
http://www.hohner.eu/index.php5?2271a454
MP - I'm not sure how you knew that I had a low C, as I haven't shared that information with anyone as I recall, because I was not at liberty to do so. No big deal at this point though - no worries. (I am stating this here for Hohner's sake.)
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Stevelegh
81 posts
Mar 11, 2011
1:28 AM
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MP, I wouldn't take much stock in the fact that Joe Filisko's endorsed it.
Did you see the Crossover vid with Howard Levy and Joe Filisko? They both basically endorsed it as a great out the box harmonica, which to my mind isn't an endorsment at all. It's just saying 'whilst this harp is better than the usual stuff, it still isn't meeting market demand'.
If you want it to do everything that's demanded of modern harp techniques, you've still got to get under the hood or buy it via a customiser who's done the work for you.
Crossover / Thunderbird / Manji / 1847 quality should be as standard and if that means a hike in prices, then so be it.
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MP
1483 posts
Mar 11, 2011
2:44 AM
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hey todd,
i had no idea you had a t-bird low C. i just know that at least once you mentioned getting hohner prototypes. it was really just an off the cuff aside. really, i would have never guessed,never made such a supposition about you owning a bird. it's just a strange coincidence.
i heard about the bird from a friend whom played at a party and met a hohner rep whom was also playing.
kinda ot, but my friend said the rep didn't know third position-what's the world comming to!?. but, he had a buncha harps to show off.
hi steve! so...there is no santa claus? say it and so joe! (filisko)
right now i'm under the hood of an MB that only had 6 nails on the bottom plate rather than the normal 7. r. sleigh says these are not worth customizing in his marine band field spotters guide. i remain undetered, but i see what he means. i won't try another of this era. too much work. stiff as all get go,unfriendly alloy, and bad riveting.
i'm going to my happy place now. guten nacht.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2011 2:48 AM
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Stevelegh
82 posts
Mar 11, 2011
3:06 AM
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Sorry MP, I sounded negative.
What I meant was that whilst these endorsements look to all intents and purposes like they're giving the product a great review, they're really careful about what they say.
I won't mention who, but someone told me to listen really closely to the wording on that Crossover vid on YouTube. Actually, HL and JS don't say anything good about the instrument. They say it almost works at a level demanded by many harp players, which is like hearing a review from Ferrari about a BMW 3 series being compared to a Ford Focus. Yes, of course it's infinitely better, but I didn't hear Howard say he's going to throw his Filisko harps, or Joe say he's shutting his workshop.
They got paid to speak very carefully about an OK product, and that's fine, but they just told us that the product is less sh!t that the other sh!t that's out there.
If Hohner want to put out something really good people will buy it.
On the Thunderbird harps, it sounds to me that that they failed on the Crossover and decided to create a range of low and low low harps out of the parts as they know that people don't expect to overblow in these keys.
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HarpNinja
1194 posts
Mar 11, 2011
5:22 AM
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I just got a bunch of harps right from Hohner yesterday including Crossovers in C, D, and Bb. They all could OB on 1, 4, 5, and 6 and overdraw on 7. Optimal? No. Totally giggable for the majority of OB players? 1000% Yes.
You can make a Crossover a pro instrument in an hour (other than retuning). IMO, it is fantastic out of the box and I am anxious for the T-Bird to come out. I've been holding off on getting a couple of low keyed harps in anticipation for this (finally a Low C that will fit in my gig case!).
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/24/11
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belfast_harper
229 posts
Mar 11, 2011
6:05 AM
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Is their any special attention given to the harps that are sent to the Hohner endorsers? I am asking because I remember reading a something about someone who used to work in the Hohner factory on harps for the endorsers.
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Miles Dewar
765 posts
Mar 11, 2011
7:30 AM
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Seems like they come out with new harps as much as it snows over here.
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barbequebob
1595 posts
Mar 11, 2011
7:57 AM
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Since there are many more companies competing, plus the rise if harp customizers, Hohner hs had to step up its game. The biggest competition in the US for them is still Lee Oskar, but all the other companies are little by little, gaining market share in the US. They still have an 80% market share here, but in other countries, it's a different ball game.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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AlexPaclin
37 posts
Mar 11, 2011
8:16 AM
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Finally! After 5 years Seydel did it!
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HarpNinja
1195 posts
Mar 11, 2011
8:25 AM
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I never specify which harps are for me vs customers, so I doubt I get tweaked harps...it'd be a lot of work to do batches o ten or so.
Crossover sales must be good. At least in my conversations with Hohner that is the vibe I get. I don't see any reason to complain.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/24/11
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Todd Parrott
396 posts
Mar 11, 2011
9:14 AM
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Yes, Alex, Seydel did it! After over 150 years of being in business, they finally became a viable competitor a few years ago! ;)
@belfast_harper - I don't get any special tweaking on my harps I buy from Hohner, but I'm sure that some long-time or high profile endorsers probably do. I played out-of-the-box Golden Melodies for years, but got into customs for overblow and overdraw needs. So, with Joe Spiers in my corner, I don't really need anyone at Hohner to tweak anything. The stock Crossover I have plays and overblows great.
And the Thunderbird is going to be really awesome, though there are many Hohner haters that will try and trash-talk it I'm sure. That always happens for some reason. But I'm thankful for Hohner because without them the harmonica certainly wouldn't be as popular as it is today, and many of us would probably not even be harmonica players today if not for them.
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groyster1
906 posts
Mar 11, 2011
9:33 AM
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@Todd
I agree about what you say about hohners but feel that suzukis and the harp customizers have made hohner take stock in what the players want in their harps
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Todd Parrott
398 posts
Mar 11, 2011
9:42 AM
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Yes, I have to agree with you on that, groyster1. And I have a lot of respect for Suzuki. They are really nice folks and are fun to talk with at SPAH.
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harpdude61
771 posts
Mar 11, 2011
10:22 AM
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Todd...still waiting on the GM Deluxe? I have found that I am so accustomed to a Golden Melody that I cannot play a shorter, squared off harp....especially with my deep embrochure. The corners of a MB are sharp to the inside of my jaw.
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Todd Parrott
399 posts
Mar 11, 2011
10:36 AM
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I am hoping for something along those lines, as the Golden Melody needs an upgrade - a new comb at the very least.
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MP
1485 posts
Mar 11, 2011
11:31 AM
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i have 2 first run crossovers and i was blown away by how good they are so i concur w/ ninja.
no problem todd.
i didn't think you were being negative. as far as the vid w/ HL and JF i have a short attention span and so didn't listen closely.
but, when joe says he is proud to endorse the product,and levy asks, "are they all like this?" i took note.
i already owned the harps,made my own accessment, and discovered the vid later; so it didn't have any bearing on my being pleased how well the 6 ob jumps up and back like a champ.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2011 11:34 AM
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bigd
306 posts
Mar 11, 2011
12:46 PM
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I am looking forward to these - Especially with Todd endorsing as I find him honest and grounded. I really would love to try a low C for horn lines!! As a lifelong Golden Melody player I too find it hard to transcend my structural habits. I actually own a low F Golden Melody that was briefly made by Hohner - It sure has had to see a lot of customizers to become a work horse though. d
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HarpNinja
1197 posts
Mar 11, 2011
12:55 PM
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I predict a revamped GM in the next year or two and would be shocked not to at least see a Low F along with it. I am just as excited for that as the Thunderbird...
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/24/11
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nacoran
3880 posts
Mar 11, 2011
2:15 PM
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Does anyone know what the lowest note on any harmonica (including bass harmonicas) is? Everyone seems to use a different system to describe it. Some companies say Low, or low low, others give the octave numbers, other say baritone... is there a harmonica out there with something lower than a LLF? How about other free reeds?
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Nate
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MP
1489 posts
Mar 11, 2011
6:55 PM
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i don't know if i'd like a harp w/ notes that low nac.
i don't play a lot of tibetan prayer/chant music.
i'd like a t-bird low F# though. i need a new regular F# too. it finally lost it's robust timbre since it's older than dirt.
no matter steve. you know, i've played sub standard instruments since lyndon baines johnson was president.
as a result, i'm easily pleased.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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AlexPaclin
38 posts
Mar 12, 2011
4:34 AM
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Todd, ok you convinced me, Hohner is good=)
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Todd Parrott
400 posts
Mar 12, 2011
9:18 PM
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Any low keys in the Golden Melodies would require deeper covers on the bottom, as they are terrible for reed rattle, which is probably why they discontinued them. I have several Golden Melodies in low Eb, E, F, & F#, and I have the reed rattle issue, but if you play them right you can avoid this.
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MP
1496 posts
Mar 12, 2011
9:32 PM
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hey todd, i noticed that any GM, Bb and down to G (we are talking normal range here)-requires that you be very precise on the lower 2 reed slots-
actually, a friend of mine couldn't keep his Ab GM one draw from hitting the bottom cover; and he's a soft player. i made a dimple in the plate for him with the ball end of a glass cutter and a hammer. it is neatly done but looks like an infected carbuncle. he likes it.
i prefer more definition; that's the only way i can put it.
for many years my fav harp in C was the GM. for some reason, the key of C is dynamite on GMs. dunno why. it just covers all the bases for me. i wouldn't use anything else. i want one with a glossy bamboo comb!
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Last Edited by on Mar 12, 2011 9:46 PM
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Stevelegh
87 posts
Mar 13, 2011
1:43 PM
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Todd Parrot:
I hate to call you on this, but you made a comment about Hohner haters after my post. I am making an assumtion. If I am wrong, please forgive me, but please take my comments on board.
For the record, I'm not a Hohner hater. I've got more Hohners than any other harp. I've just ordered a bunch of GM's from Tony Dannecker in the UK and I've ordered 3 MB's from Joe Spiers and I love them.
I do know a little about Hohner. I worked for them. I know that they're a business. I know that they need to shift units to keep shareholders happy. I know that sometimes that unit shifting means shifting crap.
Here's what I want:
A harp that is gonna be loud, clear, embossed (I have a bit of knowledge of engineering. They can do it) and ready to play all blows, draws, bends, overblows and overdraws with, I concede some gapping by the user (Me? TB OB'er with a deep embrochure).
I think Hohner have the ability (GM's pretty much there as it is with the crappy comb it has).
I think they costed the Crossover prior to manufacture. Big mistake. Make the harp, then cost it. Put it out, then if the market doesn't bite, then you can tell them 'Well, we did this harp and you didn't want to pay for it'.
Personally, I think they'd have a winner. I'd pay $100 for a harp I'd only have to bugger about with a bit. I tried Seydels and they ain't as easy as Hohners. I tried a Manji (OK a G), but I wasn't impressed.
All I'm saying is: Hohner. Make a harp that everyone will scream about.
The T Bird? I still say they've got a bunch of Crossover combs to lose, but to be fair, I like the idea of low keys. It's like having an alto, tenor and baritone Missisipi sax.
God bless.
Steve.
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Todd Parrott
401 posts
Mar 14, 2011
2:18 AM
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@Stevelegh - No, my comment was not referring to you at all. I remember you saying before that you worked for Hohner in the past, so I've never thought of you as a Hohner hater.
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Stevelegh
88 posts
Mar 14, 2011
5:38 AM
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Cheers for the reply Todd. Sorry, I thought it was. Totally my bad.
This thread has set me thinking about low keys and I'm now looking forward to the Thunderbird. I bought a low Eb Seydel Silver last year in ET and I wish I'd gone compromised. The low chords sound great.
Does anyone have idea of expected prices for the T'Bird?
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HarpNinja
1200 posts
Mar 14, 2011
6:02 AM
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Steve,
At least state side, my understanding is there aren't a bunch of Crossover combs to lose. In fact, it is hard for them to keep the Crossover in stock in all keys due to not having a large supply of combs.
I had contacted Hohner about replacement Crossover combs and was told they couldn't get them out fast enough to keep up with Crossover demand.
There are a number of custom harps in the $100 range that would give you what you need.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 3/14/11
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Stevelegh
89 posts
Mar 14, 2011
6:44 AM
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Hey Mike,
Re: Combs. My bad again! Hahaha!
On the $100 harp thing, it's not so much going to a customiser, it's about harmonicas in general.
Yes, I appreciate a 'Joe' harp is going to be supreme and there's plenty of guys who'll get a harp playing far better than OTB for $100, but what I'm talking about is walking into a music store and picking up a harp that will be there or thereabouts ready to play OB's there and then.
I know overblows and bends are outside of the instruments original remit, but the players aren't shouting loudly enough to get the product produced.
Actually, just a thought:
GM's, Manjis, and Seydels aren't all that bad and can be made to overblow with a little time on gapping.
Given the amount of playing styles and requirements for different tunings, maybe I'm just looking for the moon on a stick.
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HarpNinja
1201 posts
Mar 14, 2011
7:15 AM
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IMO, I think getting the 4, 5, and 6 ob to be playable within the same limitation of a nice OOTB harp is doable...sometimes without even gappying. The overdraws are hit or miss depending on the key with the lower ones being better. You can gap them easily enough, but the squeal factor can still be there.
You're right though, the market for that just isn't there. Even on this board, where the players tend to be more into harp than the average Joe, not everyone would welcome that.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/24/11
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bigd
307 posts
Mar 14, 2011
10:49 AM
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Todd. Let me know if you want to take your Low F# GM out of your harp museum and sell it. I work with mucho singers and could use one. My best. d
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HarpNinja
1203 posts
Mar 14, 2011
12:39 PM
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Dennis,
I am aware of a couple of options regarding Low tuned GM's. In fact, I know someone working on making them right now. They aren't public yet, but a great option being they aren't mass produced.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/24/11
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