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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players > Questions about harp care
Questions about harp care
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SkullKid
49 posts
Mar 16, 2017
10:46 AM
Hey,
I just opened my Special 20, which I have been playing for 2,5 months now (though on average like 3 hours a day) and it has already collected quite a bit of rust that I cannot get rid of - though fortunately not yet on the reed plates. Now I have a few questions about taking care of your harp.

1. How often do you clean your harp? I guess every 2,5 months is not enough. :P

2. Is there any way to prevent the harmonica from getting rusty? Of course I know that you should tap it into your palm after playing but are there more tricks? I saw Kinya suggesting to dry it with a hair dryer, lol.
I know that some Seydel harps have stainless steel reeds, but I love the Special 20 and would like to stick with that model for now.

3. How long do YOUR harps last on average and do they also get rusty (I know it depends on your technique and various other things, this is just out of curiousity)?

Cheers,
Skullkid

Last Edited by SkullKid on Mar 16, 2017 10:53 AM
Killa_Hertz
2269 posts
Mar 16, 2017
2:37 PM
When you say your harp is rusting ....
Where is the rust? On the covers I assume?

Harp Care and Harp Longevity greatly depends. Some people never clean their harps. Some people clean them after every gig. How long do they last? I have yet to blow a reed, while some people claim to blow out a harp in a week.

What I do as far as cleaning ...

I run my harps under a hot tap, gently shake the water out and repeat a few times. Then I fill the sink with hot water and swish the harps around in there a bit ... then let it sit for 15 minutes or so. Then drain the water and reapeat.

When I'm done I really try to dry them well by tapping them out.

This may not be the best way, but it works for me. I do this when my harps start to play a little funny from being dirty.

There are many other methods out there. Dime people use denture cleaner, some use peroxide ... there are endless methods. Just make sure that whatever you use is ok to go in your mouth and won't leave an odor.

I have been meaning to purchase a sonic cleaner .... they work great. Just set it and forget it.

If your harp is REALLY dirty (or has a wooden comb)....
Take it all the way apart and use a toothbrush and soap n water. Just be careful of the bristles getting caught in the reeds. Brush from rivet end to top of reed. Gently at first, you ll see what I mean.

Oh one more trick....

You already know to tap out your harps after playing. Well you will start to notice crud collecting at the front of the holes. Use a toothpick and clean that gunk out if you see it building up. That way it doesn't make its way into the harp ... or your mouth.
SuperBee
4582 posts
Mar 16, 2017
4:05 PM
I never used to clean them. I still don't clean my own much, but I clean every harp I repair at least twice, and I've repaired over 500 harps.

Rust? Brass doesn't rust. But 'buildup' will occur, especially on the rivet end, and it will gradually put your harp out of tune.
I see some harps with green buildup you can scrape off with a stick. And other harps which are not like this.
It tends to follow the customers.
What I mean is, certain customers always have filthy harps, others are always clean

Number 1 is play with a clean mouth. Don't eat while you're playing or before you play. Take a toothbrush with you if you are gonna be playing after a meal. Work on developing an aversion to playing after eating.

Number 2, yeah sure, rinse them out sometimes. Play in the shower if you like. Not great to let wooden combs stay wet though.
I actually think the harp-soaking practice was probably more about washing than anything else. But that's me dreaming.
But be careful about your drinks when you play. Anything with milk in it or sugar in it is bad news.
Water is fine. Tea is ok. Black coffee is not ideal but not as bad as bourbon and cola.

Food and drink are the villains. If you eliminate the practice of getting food and drink laden spit in your harps, you're about 90% of the way there. Try not to smoke either.

If you do clean them, don't use coke or neat vinegar or alcohol. Very dilute vinegar is probably ok. Just do some research on whether the stuff you are thinking of using is corrosive to the metal you are gonna clean. I've had some *very* flat harps here from people who decided it was a good idea to use coke to make their brass shiny.
It doesn't need to be shiny! It doesn't matter that it's tarnished. Tarnish on reeds and reedplates just means you play your harps.
Snot on the other hand is gross. Clean that crap off.

I'll tell you how I clean harps. This is my method and it's not recommended by anyone. It has no status except for being how I've done it for a couple of years and hundreds of harps for dozens of customers many of whom are regulars and gigging players on the festival circuit, and one of whom is a seydel endorsed player.

I take the harp apart. This is important.
I have a method to enable me to put the reedplate screws back in the same holes they came out of.
I put the covers, reeedplates and comb (non-wood) in a small ultrasonic cleaner. I add a drop of unscented mild dishwashing detergent. And hot water. Not boiling.
The detergent is slightly controversial. You don't want foam. Foam makes the ultrasonic ineffective.
The dish soap does give a shinier finish to the covers though, and customers like that.
I don't leave it to the ultrasonic though. I use a rotary toothbrush, an oralB just because it's there, and I use it on all the surfaces including reeds. I'm not crazy about this, I don't try too hard to get the back of the reeds from the slot side, but if the reeds or plates are real grotty I will give some attention to that. It's a lot like cleaning your teeth. Not hard scrubbing, just mainly getting off the loose stuff.
The ultrasonic is good at loosening up stuff in the places you can't reach. After cleaning up tuning jobs it's quite alarming how much brass is left in the tub.

I rinse it all under the tap

Then I pat the stuff dry on clean towels, shake out the combs. And give them a few minutes to dry, as long as it takes. Don't put them back together while they're wet.

Rust on covers shouldn't be a serious problem these days with stainless covers. But let your harps dry out after playing. Don't store them in closed boxes or cases or foam slots (yuk!) until they've dried out. When I get back from jam or gig or rehearsal I put my case on the desk and pop open the lid. My harps are all sitting holes up in their tray and I'll leave it like that for a few hours or overnight before I close the lid.
Most of my set is at least a few years old, and like I said, I rarely make a point of cleaning my own harps. The process above is what I use but it's mainly been developed to clean customers harps so I can play them while working on them, and so they can get them back in clean sanitary state after I've been mending and tuning them, which involves me playing them,

To reiterate though, the best thing is to keep them clean by playing with clean mouth.

Last Edited by SuperBee on Mar 16, 2017 4:09 PM
SkullKid
54 posts
Mar 18, 2017
6:14 AM
Thanks for your very detailed responses guys!

@Killa: I see, using tap water, eh? I used to do that but the instruction manual of the Special 20 specifically says that you should not do that, so I stopped. :x I used isopropyl this time.
The trick with the toothpick is good, I have been doing that (you can also use an earwax remover but you have to be carefull not to get anything into the harp).

@Superbee: Wow, are you working with harps / instruments professionally? Didn't know that. Oh, true, brass does not rust. The buildup is brown to black, with a few green spots and it does not go away with isopropyl - luckily it's mostly not on the reed plates themselves. I have been trying not to play after eating and I manage most of the time but sometimes I just rinse for a minute or so, since brushing your teeth like 5 times a day is not that good.
Good to know that some buildup is normal, I am curious about how long the harp will last. I will keep you posted, thanks again.

Skullkid
Killa_Hertz
2276 posts
Mar 18, 2017
7:15 AM
I think the harp will last a good long time if you play it properly. Some guys play way too hard and blow out reeds alot.

Other than that it should last you a long time. Some people have had a set of harps for 20 years. I suppose it just depends on the use and things like that.
SuperBee
4583 posts
Mar 18, 2017
3:59 PM
How long they last?
I dunno.
Since I swapped over to marine band/special 20 types in 2011, I've never retired a harp. I do have a big box of harps that I want to work on but they are all still in the game from my point of view.

I have seen players claim things such as a harp is only good for 50 hours playtime and after that they are dull and lose their tone etc.
I never have understood that. I thought maybe I just don't know, 50 hours is quite a lot of playing one harp, how would I even keep track of that.
But then I realised a lot of people in the world of harp-playing talk a lot without really having much to back it up.
So at the moment I'm still thinking the harps don't really wear out. Individual reeds go bad, and I replace them. Harps get dirty and I clean them, tuning can drift and I address that. As I mentioned above, cleaning them a bit can prevent some of the tuning problems (and can also cause tuning problems if you use corrosive fluids or abrasive treatments to clean!)
My longest serving harp at the moment is purchased in 2007. I played it a lot especially in 2012/13 when i was taking lessons and playing almost everything on an A harp. Many hours on this marine band deluxe.
But in my gig set I have 4 Crossovers I purchased in 2011 and probably the D harp in that set has done more work in hard-playing situations than any harp I own. I've repaired it 4 times; 2 4 draw reeds, 1 5 draw and a 3 draw.
Bear in mind, my band plays about 40% of numbers in A, and this is one of 2 gig harps I use for these songs.
The repaired harps sound as good to me as any other harp. There is no drop-off in performance.

So I really don't know. To me it seems a harp is repairable and maintainable, and if you have harps which can be repaired and you maintain them, they will last a very long time.
Sometimes combs need to be replaced. Sometimes covers get out of shape or rust. Sometimes threads get stripped. Take care with threads. It's a nasty irony that people strip threads while trying to keep their harps clean and well-maintained.
dchurch
114 posts
Mar 19, 2017
10:26 PM
Good questions that everyone wonders at some point. Some of my harmonicas get very good care, others not so much.

"...the best thing is to keep them clean by playing with clean mouth." *Nailed it. I try to at least swish with some water or something, or brush my teeth/tongue just for playing.

Another problem can be pocket lint. A belt case is nice for keeping your carry harps clean.

Tarnish alone is not really a problem. You are more likely to create a problem by trying to shine up the inside of your S20.

I try to avoid playing on dusty trails... but I like to play when I mow with the tractor, and I play a Special 20 while surfing.

I've surfed with the same Special 20 for several years. I just wash it out with my wetsuit using the garden hose and Dr. Bronner's Peppermit Soap (organic). The S20 is pretty tarnished... but plays just fine. Sadly, I've only taken it apart and properly cleaned it a few times. I honestly did not expect it to live this long. It's not in perfect tune, but I dont mind here.

I have an ultra sonic parts cleaner but I honestly dont us it unless I'm cleaning a batch. I occationally just rinse them with water but whenever I hear a problem or see crud... I completly dismantle, clean and inspect. That might be after 40 hours, or 4 hours of dusty mowing.

I use a battery powered "Oral B" toothbrush for some of this along with the liquid pepermint soap and toothpaste. I quit buying the paste with sparkles when I found they were actually tiny bits of plastic(?) when they got stuck in the gaps.

From my experience harps can last a long time. I've restored a bunch of Marine Bands that are over 50 years old. Some of them looked pretty bad with rusted rivets and heavy tarnish but they still play. And play great after a little work. I have used acid baths... in some cases but that's really beyond normal cleaning.

How long? I occationally crack a reed or have one go flat or sound tired... and I've managed to crack a few combs, but that can take years. In the early days I was pretty hard on reeds, now at least I know when I'm over doing it.

But, yes you could mess up a nice harp in just a few minutes (or seconds) of really abusive playing.

I make my own repairs so my harps last a lifetime, unless I'm to lazy to fix them ;)

---------
It's about time I got around to this.
SuperBee
4584 posts
Mar 20, 2017
3:01 AM
I relate to just about everything in that post. Maybe not the surfing.
I'd forgotten about pocket lint.
It's definitely worth having some sort of cover you can use for pocket work.
The seydel soft covers are pretty good. I still would catch the odd bit of junk but mainly things were good. I got one of Michelle LeFree's double soft covers and that has been excellent. I often wanted to have 2 harps with me (typically A and D) and this cover had a flap with clip. So far I've been 100% lint clear with this.
dchurch
115 posts
Mar 20, 2017
12:22 PM
Thanks SuperBee,
I just sent Michelle LeFree @ SilverWing Leather an order request for a softy double case with a belt loop. Can't have to many carry options :)

Tip: Mowing the field with a tail wind_ try to stick with the blow notes. Cough, cough :/

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It's about time I got around to this.

Last Edited by dchurch on Mar 20, 2017 12:23 PM
ScottK
58 posts
Mar 20, 2017
3:54 PM
I'd like to hear about tuning harps. Do you guys do that? I know I can google and find stuff and I will but would like to hear what you all do. I have taken apart and cleaned harps. I have a marine band 1896 key of C that sounds flat I think on the 3rd draw...

I wonder what process you may go through from listening if they are in tune- what you use to check them? Piano? Guitar Tuner? and how to adjust.

Or just point me to a good youtube vid!

Thanks
dchurch
117 posts
Mar 20, 2017
5:34 PM
ScottK, If you ask that question by starting a new "Post Message" I sure you will get plenty of help.

----------
It's about time I got around to this.
ScottK
59 posts
Mar 20, 2017
8:13 PM
Thanks dchurch, I will!
SkullKid
55 posts
Mar 24, 2017
1:43 PM
Nice, I'm relieved that the buildup is not a sign for the pending collapse of my relatively new harp! :)


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