Bike&Harp
63 posts
Dec 22, 2016
1:44 PM
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I bought the above harp and really love it. The Manji to me is way ahead of the SP20 in just about every area. To me it feels better in the mouth. It looks better and sounds better. Only slight niggle was the #1D was flat and i had to tune it up a bit. What i noticed was though that with the big conical extension it seemed easy to assume an embouchure where you could really dig into the low reeds and pull the #1D out of tune. Any of you guys think that or had that issue where you had to tune up a bit on a new Manji?
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SuperBee
4375 posts
Dec 22, 2016
2:59 PM
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I think it is very easy to pull hole one flat on any harp.
The fat cover might contribute to a wider open jaw and that might cause you to hold your throats slightly differently. I have a thunderbird and some standard key harps, G and Bb, with thunderbird covers. I don't think I've noticed a tendency to flatvthr 1 draw but the conical covers did take a while to feel familiar. Anything strange can cause tension and that can definitely affect the breathing.
But also:
I've never seen a low manji. I only owned one manji and when I checked the tuning I was amazed at how all over the place it was. But that was key of C and I'd owned it for a while at that stage. I've since given it away.
I've repaired a few, well, 'serviced' is more accurate. They all needed tuning but again I don't know their history.
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Bike&Harp
64 posts
Dec 22, 2016
6:05 PM
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Yeah Bee the 1-4 draw octave was slightly out of tune. I naturally assumed the #1 was flat as that's the way it sounded and i remembered an old video of Adam's where he mentioned how most harps on the low hole 1 were usually flat and needed tuned up. So anyway i got my needle files out and filed the tip to raise the pitch. Tried it again and again repeat etc. Then i thought "wait a minute this is getting worse!" I didn't check it with my tuner originally and should actually have been lowering the reed, it was a bit sharp. So i scraped the base end of the reed and it fell nicely into place.
I like these manji's Bee, they just fit me nicely. A bit expensive and maybe not worth twice the price of a SP20 but good nevertheless.
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dchurch
84 posts
Dec 23, 2016
3:14 AM
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Bike&Harp
It’s great seeing that you pulled the trigger on the low Manji and are a happy you did. Recommending a particular harp is a bit risky. There is obviously a wide variety of very respectable opinions here.
I pulled the plates off my low C Manji (it needed cleaning anyway). I didn’t see signs of my tuning any low reeds. I could see that I flattened the 4D a tiny bit. I don’t recall having to tune any of my other Manjis, at least not more than any other harp.
Honestly, no I don’t feel a change in drawing down on the low end of the deeper cover plates (the Lucky 13 has a similar design). But yes I can imagine it could cause a change, and for sure low reeds play differently.
I guess my instincts have always said to take it easy on new harps to break them in, especially for the low weighted reeds. Look at the 1D reed and the swing area that it has… It’s also a reed I hate to crack (harder to find a donor).
OT: Have you flattened the comb yet?
IMO the solid comb is a very strong plus for the Manji vs your Special 20’s. Flattening is easy. Just tape some carbide paper down on a solid flat surface and use a figure 8 motion with light even pressure on the comb.
I normally start with 320 grit for a minute or two on each side, or until I have even sanding marks across each face. Then I switch to 400 & 600 grit for a satin smooth finish and up to 1500 for polishing. While you are at it you can check the plates.
The result of flattening is not as dramatic as setting reed gaps but it’s darn easy to do and well worth the effort.
The Manji combs that I have worked on were pretty flat to begin with. I didn’t bother wetting the paper. I just dust it off (vacuum actually) to keep the paper from clogging. I tape the paper to a machined table saw surface or a piece of thick plate glass. Flattening & polishing the comb takes about 5 minutes.
Enjoy that Manji
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It's about time I got around to this.
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Bike&Harp
65 posts
Dec 23, 2016
9:11 AM
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dchurch: thanks for the input man. Yeah i love these manji's. I got an Ab and the low Eb and i also have a B on the way. All keys that i didn't have covered with my other harps. I can say that these are definitely my favourite harps so far. I love everything about them, the way they look, the cover plates, i love the comb, the way they feel in the mouth while playing. They really have surpassed my expectations. The slight tuning issue was minor the kind of thing i'd expect to see in any harp really. I could actually have left it the way it was because it wasn't out that much. I made it worse initially by upping the pitch instead of lowering. My tuner wasn't working at that point so i went purely by octaves and was sure the reed needed to be raised but it needed lowering slightly.
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Killa_Hertz
2021 posts
Dec 23, 2016
10:58 AM
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I find my Low Manjis are my favorite of the set too.
I find every model has qualities i love and qualities that i don't like. I think that's why i switch models so often.
The manji is a great quality harp, but i really dont care for the tuning. And also the reeds can be a little funny sometimes. Meaning they are a little more stiff than a hohner. When set right they play pretty great, but there not great for soft playing imo.
I find the stock combs really are not very flat. If you look at one you ll see shiny spots, these are the high spots. Flattening the comb and plates goes a LONG way with the manjis.
Im working on retuning a few of mine to 19 limit.
My C manji is horrible, i think it's a lemon ... lol. I just can't get it to play right. I'm sure i could figure it out if i cared enough. Probably a warped plate. Havent put much time into figuring it out.
Re the conical cover.
I think that does effect playing for sure. I don't know about pulling it out of tune, but i think it can effect your tone.
Thats one thing i like about the seydels. They are thicker and change your embouchure to be much more open and wide. This plus the tuning and the stainless steel reeds, really makes a great tone. Imo.
I know Bee often suggest that the SS doesnt create a different tone ... and this may be true .... but it sure does feel like it does.
I would like to get a session standard just for the purpose of doing an A/B between the Brass and Steel.
I also believe the Suzuki Bronze Phosphor has its own Tone. Which I'm not sure I'm crazy about. This is why I would like to change the tuning and see if i like it better then.
How do you feel about the manji comb sitting back into the harp? That's another thing i really don't like.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 23, 2016 11:02 AM
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Bike&Harp
66 posts
Dec 23, 2016
11:39 AM
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Killa: I love the manji comb! I love everything about the harp. The only thing i find hard is bending the low draw reeds and getting them in tune. It is definitely harder to play than a standard harp. A major plus from that is when you do play an ordinary key harp then it feels very light and easy to manipulate. I saw Tomlin Leckie online trying out a low C manji and he said he was having real trouble bending and that it was a beast! My low one is an Eb and it's doable but hard too.
RE the Seydels; i have a couple in Powerbender and Powerdraw tunings. I really like them a lot too. Not as much as these manji's but i do like them. Of all the harps i've bought i like the manji the most.
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Killa_Hertz
2029 posts
Dec 23, 2016
9:17 PM
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They are hard to bend. The low C is a real bitch.
I saw Steve Guyger (who by the way is an infamous ootb player. ) play in Medua PA this summer. He was playing a song switching back and forth between a reg C snd a low C
Well he hit a Hard Sustained 2" draw bend, like butter on the low C. I was amazed.
But the point is, if you gap them tight it helps. But im sure you ve tried that m
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Bike&Harp
70 posts
Dec 25, 2016
7:47 PM
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Improved it a bit with some embossing. The #2D and #3D are bending better now, a lot better. Crisper sound as well. I often can't be bothered embossing a whole harp but will pick whatever holes i feel need improvement. I don't go crazy with it though as you can drive yourself nuts and end up spending more time working on harps than playing them!
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Killa_Hertz
2031 posts
Dec 25, 2016
8:06 PM
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Yea i hear you. I went pretty crazy with it when i first was figuring out about tweaking harps. But never got too heavy into embossing ... because like you said, you can drive yourself nuts trying to get everything perfect. And once you over emboss ... forget it ... your spending twice the time trying to get it back working again. Maybe if/when i start to use overblows, ill figure out a better system. Right now its not worth the time/trouble.
I do sometimes use the penny trick. One or two passes, just to knock the edges down, can make a big difference.
The one thing i find with low harps is .. if you leave the gaps wide you get a real nice slappy reed sound. But obviously the response is Shite. If you tighten the gaps, you can decent response, but you really lose ALOT of that nice slappy sound.
I suppose even higher harps have this reaction a bit, but .... its so much more noticeable with the lows
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Bike&Harp
71 posts
Dec 25, 2016
9:08 PM
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Killa: Yeah definitely. You can get to the point you're trying to over emboss and i think you reach a point of diminishing returns. You can get the gap down to where it's a sliver. But then to get the reed free and moving takes more work because when you get down to that level of precision you inevitably end up with the reed catching. Then you have to fix that. It just becomes a bit too much IMO and i'd rather be playing. One thing i did learn through personal mistakes is to emboss a very small amount then check, plink, see how the situation looks before embossing more. That way if the reed does catch it's usually fairly easy to fix it. Whereas if you go at it heavy and don't check it could take you hours to fix it.
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Killa_Hertz
2032 posts
Dec 26, 2016
12:46 PM
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Yea your right. I could probably get fairly decent at embossing if i did more. And perhaps i will when overblows are worked into my repertoire, but right now the benifits aren't worth it really.
I find it interesting that you only emboss a slot or two. Don't you find that the harp plays uneven?
What I mean is ..... after embossing just the 2 & 3 slot and not the rest of the harp .... do you find that when making a run up the harp, those holes respond differently than the rest???
Because to me, my main goal is to get the whole harp responding in a uniform manner. Infact my whole set responding in a uniform manner.
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Bike&Harp
73 posts
Dec 26, 2016
1:38 PM
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Not really as regards the playing uneven thing. There is a tightening up of the sound and it's a bit more responsive but not a massive difference really. I don't care about it performing in a uniform manner as long as it does what i want.
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Killa_Hertz
2034 posts
Dec 26, 2016
7:17 PM
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Yea, well that's how i get it to do what i want. By being able to use an even breathforce across the whole harp. The better my playing gets, the less sensitive I am to the small differences, i find. But still ... thats the whole point to modifying ootb harps, no? To make them nice and even responding from end to end. But its even to my liking, maybe not to someone elses. Consistent maybe is a better description.
Aslong as one hole or reed isn't too airy or too stuffy .... that's all i mean.
Ill have to try the one or two slot embossing on a harp and see ... sounds like it would be nice on the 123 hole. Probably could open the gaps a bit more and get that nice little boost in tone, if the slot was tighter. Interesting.
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Dec 26, 2016 7:17 PM
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