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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players > Practicing Playing IN TUNE.
Practicing Playing IN TUNE.
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Killa_Hertz
1827 posts
Oct 21, 2016
5:34 AM
Something MTG Said in the "First Harmonica" thread really touched a nerve for me. Mostly because I think I MAY be an offender of this very thing.

MTG said " I tried playing along and found that every note was about 1/2 semitone flat! Not much point in getting hung up about 7-limit vs 19-limit Just Intonation if you are going to do that :) He sounded great though."


I play alot by myself. Well I play almost exclusively by myself, but what I mean is I dont always play with Records or Backing Tracks. I spend a good amount of the time just playing acoustic with my harp. Just playing rhythms and such. So I very well could have developed some bad habits of playing out of tune. Because ofcourse when playing by yourself, your always in tune with yourself .... LOL.

So down to the question/discussion topic.

What ways do you Use and/or Recommend for practicing playing in tune?

I think I know most of the answers, but I thought it was important to bring up. Aswell as I just wanted to talk about it ... as its something I think I probably need to work on. Particularly in my bending ( most likely)

I know alot of folks use tuners or keyboards, etc.

Maybe also you could elaborate on exercises you do when practicing this.
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rogonzab
1001 posts
Oct 21, 2016
2:34 PM
Practice your bends whit a piano or keayboard. Real or an app, does not matter. When you can match a pitch by ear, that is when you are learning that pitch.

I have a few excercises whit piano for bending, If I have time I will upload a video.
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Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
SuperBee
4202 posts
Oct 21, 2016
2:41 PM
I'm sure I'm as guilty of being not quite in tune as many harp players.
But being aware of the potential is the first thing.
So that's where 'recording yourself' can help. You don't always sound bad just due to tone, timing and note choice. Sometimes it's that 'beautiful expressive soulful bending' which sounds like someone being cruel to a cat.
The bent notes will be the most likely culprit.
Some times you do want to play them flat. Sometimes you do want to slide between notes. But not all the time. In fact, more often, it's important to play the note head on, in tune (within 10 cents say, although aim for spot-on).
So practice the bends, practice going straight to the note and jumping to the next note.
A good practice is playing scales in different positions. First position major requires a bent 2 draw and a bent 3 draw. But if you play first mixolydian you play the 2 common bends in 3 draw. And you can play 2nd position mixolydian with the 3 draw whole step.
If you play 2nd mixolydian scale on a G harp and then play 1st mixolydian on a D harp you will be able to hear whether your 3 draw and 2 draw bends are in tune.
Or maybe a LowF and a C
You can also play mixolydian in 3rd which will test your 2 draw half step and 3 draw whole step.
You can play other scales also. 5th position is interesting. You can play a mixolydian scale +2, 2', 3'", 3", 3, 4', 4, +5. This can tune up your 3 hole and 4 hole.
So you get the idea. You can do this on different harps for comparison and also on the same harp. You can play say the first 5 notes of a major scale in 1st up and back (do re mi fa sol fa mi re do)
Then do it in 2nd. then play it in 3rd (1 +2 2' 2 3" 2 2' +2 1)
Then play 3rd again but make it minor, so play 2" instead of 2'. Then do it in 2nd (so play 3' instead of 3 natural)
And you can get 5th involved too, same exercise playing the 3"' versus the 2 draw/3blow.
This is a good exercise for both your ear and learning where those important major and minor 3rds are in the various chords.
So that's one thing, just teaching yourself to hear and be conscious and in control.
Of course, this is what hyvj is on about all the time, that if you use harps which are not ET, some of those notes will be quite a long way out of tune when you play like that. The 2 blow is a bit flat. On a standard compromise Hohner temperament it might be 12 cents flatter than the 1 blow and 3 blow and 2 draw might be tuned a little sharper than the 3 blow. So you'll begin to notice this stuff too. If you have harps with different temperaments you can try them and see how significant you think the difference is.
I personally think the harmonica is often not quite in tune. Players go are well known and much respected (deservedly) for their skill, often sound out of tune to me, which is one reason I allow myself for copping out on the idea of learning to play that way. Even the chromatic sounds a bit sick to me at times when used to play that very fluent melodic style. I think this is not the strength of the harmonica but I digress.
There is a zone of being in tune enough. For the playing I do which is primarily Chicago style in 1st and 2nd position, chords and licks, playing draw bends and blow bends, compromise temperament harps sound great. But playing horn lines and such, you must be able to hit the notes bang on, by which I mean not slide to them.
I do sometimes practice with a tuner. I generally have one handy, just to satisfy my curiosity at times, but basically you want to be training your ear.
Killa_Hertz
1834 posts
Oct 24, 2016
4:56 AM
I kind of thought along the same lines Bee. It's probably very hard to stay perfectly in tune while playing, as there are so many variables. As you play and moisture gets on the reeds the tuning changes, things like that.

I suppose a bit of ear training is still good. Especially on bends. But I don't know if it's worth driving yourself mad over.

Zab i would love to hear your excersises. I think that most of the time people comment on someone being out of tune, it's on a bend. So i think if you make sure your bends are good, then your golden.

I have played against my tuner and practiced holding the bend in tune. That proves to be helpful in seeing how off you normally are. Aswell as ingraining that spot into muscle memory. I just don't do it enough.
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MindTheGap
1848 posts
Oct 27, 2016
12:52 PM
I don't think it's just bends actually. The danger is esp. in playing unbent draw notes, that could be bent. I remember Ronnie Shellist telling us he was concerned to find, when he listened to his own live recordings, that his unbent 4D was habitually flat.

But even the lower-half blow notes can easily be blown out of pitch too.

So watch out!!!
Killa_Hertz
1847 posts
Oct 28, 2016
5:44 AM
Hmmm. Interesting.

But how accurate do you think it is to play against a tuner?

Would you just practice holding a note to pitch using a tuner?

What exercises would you use to correct this?

Or what ways could you even test your playing to find out if you are infact out of tune?

Play against a keyboard and record?
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Truth2012
56 posts
Oct 28, 2016
11:00 AM
What I do is record myself on my phone then play it back against my Bendometer app on my iPad. You can watch the notes being hit on the app while playing back.
MindTheGap
1855 posts
Nov 03, 2016
1:19 AM
Here's a relevant Hohner Reedology article about pitch. Straightforward stuff but something beginners should know about - breath pressure flattens the pitch and so harps are tuned sharp. But you have to watch your playing style to make sure you are flattening them the right amount!

I guess if you are a heavy breather, the answer may be to tune your own harps sharper than they come from the factory. Once again, as with gapping, one size does not fit all.

https://reedology.com/2016/10/21/influencing-reed-pitch

A common experience, certainly one I had, is playing with different force in practice and when performing. Never mind playing flat I was choking reeds in the early days. What solved that was getting powerful enough amplification.

Sell your weedy 5W amp with it's so-called 'harpelicous tone' and get something beefy or play through the PA :) You can't compete with those guitarists by blowing harder ha ha! :)

Last Edited by MindTheGap on Nov 03, 2016 1:30 AM


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