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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
have I broken my new harp?
have I broken my new harp?
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Grunty24
1 post
Oct 17, 2016
12:21 PM
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Ok, I have just bought a new Hohner Special 20 in the key of G, practiced with it for a week of evenings and now I cannot draw on the 3rd. No sound at all unless I suck hard on it.
I have dismantled it, washed it with soapy water and blown it with a compressed air can, but still no joy.
I am still a novice, but I can comfortably do full bends on the 3rd hole. I wondered if it was my own bad playing, because the two A harps I have, have both gone the same way although not as bad. They are a year old though.
I have bought a replacement A harp last week online, haven't used it yet, but this and the G harp are Progressive rather than Marine Band - I didn't read the page properly.
My questions are:
1)Does it matter that I bought Progressive Special 20's? When the third hole plays, they sound good.
2) should I use some other method to clean them?
3) have I really broken it, and is it worth buying new reeds or should I get someone to look at it?
Hope someone can give me some advice here.
Thanks
Andy
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Killa_Hertz
1818 posts
Oct 17, 2016
12:46 PM
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First off Welcome to the forum Grunty.
Secondly , the progressive issue doesnt really matter. Most of the special 20s I have are progressive and they play fine for me.
Sounds like MAYBE the gap is off on the 3 reed. Either too closed or too open. When you do draw on it .. is it AIRY or is it like a No Air at all?
Some pictures would really help.
We can figure it out. Dont panic ... Lol.
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SuperBee
4193 posts
Oct 17, 2016
1:13 PM
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Plus 1 on the 'progressive' question. Just rebadging. Same harp.
As to the actual problem; I dunno. Always the 3 draw, on 3 harps. I have to think that's likely something to do with the operator.
Agree that some photos would help.
Dunno what I think of the compressed air approach.
I'd be interested to see the blow reed also.
Do the gaps look normal? Compared to the reeds either side?
Have you tried 'plinking' the reed? If so, does it sound similiar to other reeds nearby? Does it sound like the 3 draw reed on your new harp? Does it sound like the 3 blow reed when you plink it?
I mean in terms of resonance.
If you hold it up to the light and view the slot from underneath and push the reed into the slot, does the reed seem to be centred? Can you see light all the way around the reed? Where you put your eye matters here. It's easy to view it off from the side and think it's the reed that's off centre when you are actually viewing from an angle.
Can you take a magnifying glass and look at the slot; is it all clear, no obstruction?
I have had 3 draw reeds go bad, but it's relatively rare. Do you also bend the 4? Do you spend a lot of time bending the 3? When you say 'full bend' do you mean a whole step or do you mean all the way to the floor? Do you check with a tuner or some other reference or just bend it as low as you can?
Photos be good
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MindTheGap
1832 posts
Oct 17, 2016
2:22 PM
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I defer to the others with more experience, but I'll just add that once I had a tiny, tiny bit of lint/fibre stop a reed vibrating, because of where it was lodged in the gap between reed and slot. Washing was no good, I had to lift the reed to find it, and clear it by wiping it away.
I had a similar effect after trying some embossing, there was a minute burr of metal - couldn't really see it unaided but it was enough to kill the vibration. That was easier to identify of course as I was working on it at the time. And very easy to rectify. I'm not saying it's that though, as you won't get a burr without doing something.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Oct 17, 2016 2:32 PM
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jason campbell
91 posts
Oct 17, 2016
2:40 PM
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what MTG said, had a reed i swore was clean, but only dislodged lint by slipping a thin slip of paper under it.
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Killa_Hertz
1819 posts
Oct 18, 2016
4:28 AM
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Yes good points everyone.
BEE .. I too cringed a bit when I read compressed air.
But I forgot to mention it.
The rest is very good advice. Plinking will go a long way in telling you whats goin on. If the reed doesn't vibrate properly, but rather it just kinda thumps and stops, then you either have a misaligned reed and/or something stuck in the reed slot.
So check the reveal around the edge of the reed by lighting it from underneath and slowly pushing the reed down to watch the reveal. If the light is blocked at any point, that is where it is rubbing.
Also as MTG said .... If something is stuck ... you may not be able to see it. it can be as small as a TINY burr. The easiest way i have found to fix this is.....
Use a very fine feeler guage ( i believe its .00025 guage) or the metal strip from inside a security tag works too. ( a metal strip. but as thinner than paper.) The reason I like metal is because its tougher than paper. And sometimes these burrs can be quite stubborn and you really have to work the feeler guage back and forth (in a sort of sawing motion) in order to work it out.
I highly recommend getting a set of feeler guages to modify and make some crude harp tools out of.
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Grunty24
2 posts
Oct 18, 2016
12:20 PM
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Thanks for the replies and the welcome everyone.
Killa - The gap gives no air at all. Thanks for the feeler gauge info. I have many sets of those and will give them a go.
Bee - I haven't checked with a tuner, but I think I can do a full step bend. Can bend 1, 2, 4 & 6 too. The resonance on the neighbouring holes is fine, just the 3 that is knackered.
I accept it could be my playing, still have years of learning to go, but I have other keys of harp that don't have this problem. I use the A harps the most and have only just picked up a few lessons for the G. My original C harp (lee oskar) is still fine. I have still yet to play in anger on stage(apart from one song where I got the bug)so all this is for practice only.
The compressed air is a small can used for blowing dust from keyboards, not multiple atmospheres, but I will give it a miss if anyone thinks it is dangerous.
When I get chance at the weekend, I will dismantle it again and inspect properly with a watchmakers eyeglass thingy I have. Will also take pictures and post if I can.
Thanks for all your help
Andy
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SuperBee
4197 posts
Oct 18, 2016
1:51 PM
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It's the visuals and the plinking. I'm sure the adjacent reeds are all normal, just interested in whether the reed in question sounds 'different' when 'plinked'.
Excuse me please for asking dumb questions, I am trying to not assume what you know or don't know.
Do you know 'plinking'?
If not, I suggest watching some harp repair/maintenance type video.
There is quite a bit on YouTube.
Elkriverharmonica, Andrew Zajac, Joe Spiers (choppa Joe), Mark prados, Richard sleigh...all good names to see on an instructional video. Others too.
If you have a 'no air' situation it sounds like the gap has closed up or the reed is stuck. All sorts of reasons that could be. Inspection of the reed is the place to start.
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Killa_Hertz
1821 posts
Oct 19, 2016
5:06 AM
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Yes, I second that. Seems like the gap is closed. But it also could just be stuck because of a burr, misalignment, or some sort of goop.
I know since you cleaned it you must think " surely it can be debris. (goop)" But actually sometimes when I clean mine under the faucet, something that has been cleaned from the harp will find its way into a reed slot.
But more likely it has been misaligned from something you did during cleaning. It's very easy to do.
The plinking advice is the best.
Another good resource for all things harp is Adnrew Zajacs site. Search it on google.
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