MindTheGap
1806 posts
Oct 11, 2016
1:37 AM
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Re Killa's request for a real live teacher in his area - is anyone here having lessons?
I've had some in the past, but distance is prohibitive and couldn't find anyone local. I've had skype lessons and enjoyed them, but it's not the same as being in the same room IMO. Specifically because you can't communicate the real-world tone and volume adequately. Even with good equipment on both sides.
Also you can't play duets, or even follow-my-leader stuff because the timing is out.
I have real-live drum lessons and now brass lessons, so I know the difference.
I do think Killa's right that you can only go so far with the self-teaching/internet. I reckon I've reached that point.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Oct 11, 2016 1:38 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1800 posts
Oct 12, 2016
5:05 AM
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Yes MTG I really want to step to the next level here.
Not that I haven't been taking my playing seriously, but I want to take it to the next level and really get some pro help.
It's funny how even one great tip can vastly improve your playing.
Lessons are expensive, but im sure it's totally worth it.
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Sundancer
37 posts
Oct 12, 2016
11:22 AM
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Hey MTG - your question is the most important one I've seen on this site. Much more valid than "is the Stones blues album any good and/or is Mick Jagger a crap harmonica player?" And more interesting than any opinions on OOTB harps!
How do we learn how to practice In a way so we improve??? You mentioned many of the routes I've taken. I took up harp three years ago by attending a Gindick camp. At the time I barely knew which side of the harp to put in my mouth. The camp was both terrific fun and an intimidating eye opener - jeez, this tin sandwich is gonna be a challenge. Spent the next year teaching myself campfire songs and then went back for another camp where I felt I knew my way around the harp a bit better and could gain a bit more from the lessons - even started learning to bend some. And afterwards took about a dozen Skype lessons from one of the camp instructors, but candidly I wasn't good enough to really get much benefit - it was mostly reinforcing camp lessons. Some of it was Skype itself, most of it was me. So I stopped taking the lessons and plugged along with Harp Ninja and YouTube videos. A year later I happened to meet a really great harp player at a Gussow event and took another dozen Skype lessons from him, with the major benefit being learning how to do a 12 bar pattern using the minor pentatonic scale. Really helped me improve on my ability to move around the harp, but ... also made me realise that all these lessons were tactics without a strategy. I could see the possibility of immense benefits IF I could be more confident and fluid in my movement around the harp. But without that I'd be wasting my money and the teacher's time. So I went looking for a strategic approach, and think I may have found it in Blues Harmonica for Dummies. Winslow Yerxa has laid out a terrific set of lessons with audio that really do help ya get better/good at moving around the harp thru loads of permutations of note & bending sequences. I'll be using his book as the basis of my practice for the rest of the year, along with the YouTube updates sent by Adam Gussow & Tomlin. Who are both terrific - many thanks to both of you!!! For 2017 I'd love to find a teacher for face-to-face lessons, but that'll be tough on the Orange County coast. So I'm thinking maybe plunking down $200 for David Barrett's site. With perhaps some Skype lessons and, if whoever becomes Presidnrt doesn't crash the stock market, a trip to Clarksdale for a Gindick camp. And I'm very eager to hear yall's ideas on this.
Last Edited by Sundancer on Oct 12, 2016 11:46 AM
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Fil
198 posts
Oct 13, 2016
11:42 AM
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I don't think I've reached the end of usefulness of YouTube, books, tracks, i.e., self teaching stuff, but I sure would like access to a good, experienced instructor. I kind of hope I'll be able to poach some of what KH finds out about good folks in the Phila area. I'm about two hours west, but would make the trip at least once a month for some good help. In the meantime, various you tube lessons, scales, learning songs, woodshedding/noodling, the occasional jam have to do. I think an instructor could help me focus on a few important things that might make the most difference in my playing.
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Phil Pennington
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SuperBee
4179 posts
Oct 13, 2016
2:01 PM
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I must say my path has been quite inefficient, but the biggest change in my playing came about during the period I was taking lessons from Jimi Lee. This is not a recommendation btw.
The difference I think was that he guided me through some fundamental exercises and kept at it until he was satisfied I had it happening sufficiently well to move on. And then would point me back to the fundamentals at times.
He also taught me important concepts in theory which I could already read about but he continued to hammer the point through our lessons which did start to change my brain; I was using knowledge, and began to 'know' it, rather than 'remember' it.
But I can't afford those sessions anymore.
I'm thinking I might approach Ian Collard. He is at least in the same time zone, same currency and close enough that I could possibly get to attend in person sometimes.
But I'm dithering because...id really like to play guitar better. I'm not sure my hands can do it...I have bad arthritis in both thumbs...but I think I need to have a proper stab at guitar...but...what I really need to do is home maintenance. And every time I want to do something new, I have to decide what to stop doing. Stop typing on this phone is the first thing.
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MindTheGap
1813 posts
Oct 13, 2016
2:26 PM
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I think learning guitar without a teacher is much easier these days, because the lesson vids you see are really detailed, and with the guitar you can actually see what's going on. I wish we'd had that kind of thing years ago when I was playing guitar. It was really hard to work out what they were playing from records - especially as with guitar you can play the same phrase all over the place.
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Ian
376 posts
Oct 13, 2016
3:51 PM
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No, but I really want to.
I find myself at a stage where direct, in person tuition would definitely make a difference. I just don't have anyone near to me who advertises lessons.
What's Kinda annoying as I just came back from the States and although I went to clarksdale, I missed Gindicks camp by no more than a couple of days.
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Fil
199 posts
Oct 13, 2016
4:17 PM
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I should have added that I've done the Gindick camp three times. It certainly qualifies as in person lessons, but very concentrated. I'd like an ongoing relationship with an instructor. I have nothing but good to say about the camp and may go back again in March. Being retired has its advantages.... The instructors are excellent, location about perfect, camp band music superb, fellow campers good folks. I've found it to be a real confidence booster.
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Phil Pennington
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MindTheGap
1815 posts
Oct 14, 2016
1:34 AM
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I like the idea of the bandcamp, although we don't have many over here - the last one I knew about was the Tomlin Leckie (and Gussow) thing - but that was in Edinburgh. Quite a long way from everywhere else.
I just know there's something about visits to a live teacher one-to-one that can make a difference. They can often instantly spot things that it's hard to notice yourself. Or if you are stuck they can often suggest something to break the log jam. Nipping bad habits in the bud is a big thing too.
That said, I do think Winslow's book is very good, and is almost like a course in itself. I like Dave Barrett's stuff too and have many of his books. But it's not the same. DB's audio clips are too smoothly recorded for my liking - that's where Adam's off-the-cuff, in-the-car videos score in my book.
Superbee, if I could have live lessons with Ian Collard, I'd jump at the chance. Well, based on his playing which I particularly like. Who knows, he may be a good teacher too!
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Oct 14, 2016 1:41 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1806 posts
Oct 14, 2016
4:37 AM
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I didnt mean to imply that I had exhausted my online resources. There is an endless sea of things online that I have yet to tap into. For me it's more about a professional checkup aswell as PROPER guidance.
I feel Ive made great progress with the online stuff, but it's all up to me to gauge if im using it properly and change what I think im doing wrong, etc.
I also want to break any bad habits before they become too deeply ingrained. I think a few Live lessons could likely go farther than weeks or even months of do it yourself. And I plan on being a lifelong harp player. So its an investment.
I hadnt thought of pro lessons until now because learning how to do the basic techniques is something a video will do just fine. But now I need help refining them into professional quality playing. Those little tricks that make the difference between an Amazing player and a Decent player. Ofcourse it takes years of practice regardless of the knowledge. But I will feel much better knowing I am practicing the right things and most importantly In The Right Way.
Fil I will definitely keep you posted.
Sundancer I will try to refrain from any more OOTB conversation. LOL.
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MindTheGap
1820 posts
Oct 14, 2016
11:02 AM
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There's great online resources, one of the reasons we are all here I guess.
Re Killa's 'Little Tricks' comment, I watched that 'Blues Fills' guitar vid on the MF. He mentions a short fill could be a single note - but it's the treatment that makes it. On the guitar, he shows sliding into the note (equivalent of a rise up into the note on the harp) and bringing in vibrato towards the end.
You can SEE it on the guitar demo, that's the difference. On the harp you have to listen for it and decode it which is harder.
I've got the Paul Butterfield 'learn harp' book, where someone has transcribed his playing using standard notation, with all the trimmings like that - you should see it! Like a family of spiders fell into some ink then got scared. Compare that with the notation in the typical teach-yourself book, where it just shows the theoretical notes.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Oct 14, 2016 11:06 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1813 posts
Oct 15, 2016
3:34 PM
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Mtg.
Re the books
I know i bought a few different ones myself. (To me anyways) They were utterly useless. The family of spiders analogy definitely makes sense.
They look like a Ralph Steadman rendering. Just flung inkblots everywhere. How can one actually use these i wonder?
That is a good idea though. Perhaps i should watch more basic guitar techniques on youtube. There are likely many that apply well to harp. The basic tips are still valid.
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Sundancer
39 posts
Oct 15, 2016
5:06 PM
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Killa - you're smart AND funny. We like that.
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Spderyak
94 posts
Nov 04, 2016
8:13 AM
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Yes, I take lessons with a teacher during the winter months I go every other week. This will be my 3rd year
with him. I love it it's excellent because aside from learning how to play various ways there is a huge advantage to just be able to ask someone questions about what amp or mic works, how to record, where is a good studio, how much to make a cd etc all the every day stuff that a working musician already knows, that in itself can help save money from buying unnecessary
things might not work etc.
And of course things like how phrase a riff, when to play..hang on the beat...push the beat...stuff like that that you can learn almost spontaneously when someone can live demo it with you.
So like others had mentioned I could play fairly well..but for me just didn't really know what I was doing so I took the next step and found private lessons in person.
(my lessons last for a bit more than a hour...I pay $25)..so I suppose it depends where you live.
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Fil
208 posts
Nov 04, 2016
10:13 AM
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Spderyak, where are you located? Thanks.
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Phil Pennington
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Killa_Hertz
1862 posts
Nov 04, 2016
11:23 AM
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Thanks Sundancer. 8^) I try.
Spderyak ... $25! Wow thats amazingly cheap. I was thinking much more ..... I'm still trying to decide which route to go.... I'm a procrastinator. I really need to get on this though. While I have the funds to do it. Christmas is coming fast .... lol.
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ME.HarpDoc
207 posts
Nov 05, 2016
8:06 AM
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Killa, "Procrastination is the key to flexibility". I've been meaning to look up where that quote is from for a couple of years now :-)
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Spderyak
95 posts
Nov 05, 2016
11:01 AM
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I am in rural New England ( north east u.s.)
I'm a big believer there are good players around most every where, just a matter of seeking them out..farmers markets, libraries, towns fairs, things like that around these parts.
good luck
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harpsquealer
18 posts
Nov 10, 2016
8:08 AM
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I know that I don't post that often, but I like to read the discussion about the harmonica. Thanks for the discussion everyone. Just know that you got a silent reader on the side who'll occasionally chime in.
I haven't quite reached the end of self-teaching. There's still a ton for me to learn. Currently, I'm learning off of David Barrett's site and learning a lot (I recommend it if you ever want to brush up on a technique from a great teacher).
What do you all think is the greatest benefit to having a face-to-face lesson?
harpsquealer
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Killa_Hertz
1886 posts
Nov 10, 2016
8:34 AM
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Great to hear. I often feel I post WAY WAY too much ... lol. But I do it partially because I like talking about harp, partially because I'm Bi Polar / ADD and my brain is going a mile a minute, and partially because I hope people are reading that are wondering the same things I am. So that's good to hear.
Per MTG's thoughts I really try to remember the reader and make it clear that my posts are my opinion and are not necessarily the "right way". Or that i'm not stating fact. Sometimes I post things HOPING to get opposition to set me straight. But this may not always be clear. I really have to pay attention to how my posts come across, as to not spread misinformation. MTG is pretty good about keeping everyone's topics clear for the reader, but it's something I have to keep reminding myself to be mindful of.
I'm not at the end of my self-teaching limit either. I still have TONS to learn. And Dave Barret's site is great. It's just a bit structured for me. Seems like school. I really wish I could focus enough to utilize it, but my brain just doesn't work that way. I have used the site some and I did Cherry Pick some very useful nuggets. I have been meaning to give Dave's site another try. Perhaps I will do that.
My opinion on why a Face-to-Face teacher would be better is.... You can get real instant feedback on YOUR playing. And rather than you having to judge yourself, you can have a teacher tell you where your at and what your doing wrong/right, where you should go next, what your strengths/weaknesses are. And although skype is similar I dont think you can really accurately hear tone and things of that nature. Whereas LIVE the teacher can hear exactly what it is your doing. And give you instant feedback. I would think you could get alot more accomplished in a short time live vs skype.
I have not had any live lessons yet. I was actually just trying yesterday to line something up. I will report back as soon as I do.
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Mirco
437 posts
Nov 10, 2016
1:51 PM
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When I read some of the posts on here, I get the feeling that some people think that you should only consult with a teacher after you've reached a certain level, or after you've exhausted free online resources. I think that getting a teacher-- getting an outside opinion, really-- can help a player at any skill level, but it's especially important for beginning players. Don't wait until you've exhausted online resources. You might be practicing and developing bad habits. A good teacher will get you moving in the right direction right from the very first lesson. And some of the most important facets of playing harmonica are things that can be shared best in a 1-on-1, personal setting. Things like how to cup a mic, how to produce deep tone, even what material you should be studying... these need personal observation and immediate feedback.
Getting a teacher is a great idea, regardless of skill level. It doesn't necessarily have to be a harmonica teacher, even. Any good musician with a solid theory background will be able to help (to some degree).
#1 Best Thing: A Personal Live Lesson with a qualified musician (preferably harmonica)
#2: A Skype lesson
Don't skimp on this.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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MindTheGap
1870 posts
Nov 10, 2016
11:18 PM
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It's not simply a case of skimping, many of us won't have a teacher nearby. And that's a teacher at all, let alone a good one.
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essexdelta
3 posts
Apr 12, 2017
7:55 AM
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Hi. I've only posted a couple of times on the main forum. Been more of a reader than a contributor. However, I thought I'd drop this into the mix...
Years ago I wanted to play bass guitar well. I found a great bass player / teacher -- fortunately locally. With effort I got fairly good. Even learned to read music. Glad I did because I've been playing live with a band for 3 years.
I'm relatively new to harp. I don't currently have oodles of spare cash or an obvious choice of in-person teaching locally.
I really enjoy listening to Ronnie Shellist. I got in touch with Ronnie, and I'm doing a lesson via Skype every two weeks. He's in Denver Colorado, I'm near London in the UK.
3 lessons in and I'm gaining confidence, listening to the audio playback to reinforce learning, plus dedicating daily time to practice.
Ronnie is a great teacher. Very patient and encouraging. So glad I took the plunge to try a Skype lesson with Ronnie.
Trust this post is helpful. :-)
Last Edited by essexdelta on Apr 12, 2017 7:58 AM
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SuperBee
4619 posts
Apr 12, 2017
1:08 PM
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That's good to know. I've thought about RS and still may happen but just lined up a session with Dennis G. The time difference make it rather awkward though; 14 hours, means I'm starting at 6am!
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knight66
21 posts
Apr 18, 2017
11:26 AM
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Interesting reading other peoples thoughts on the subject. I'm not sure if I would benefit from a lessons or not. My biggest problem is concentration, my mind wanders. if I am playing following tabs I'll start thinking about a bend or something that's coming up or how I could have played the last bit differently and then loose track of what I'm supposed to be doing. I have always been a very slow learner and at 66 that isn't going to change, but from experience I know I usually get there in the end. By the way Killa keep posting, it's you, SuperBee, MTG and a couple of others that keep the beginners forum interesting.
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Spderyak
132 posts
Apr 18, 2017
2:13 PM
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Now that it is spring, I'll put in another vote for taking lessons in person when possible.
Just finished up a 5 week (1x a week) course where my wife and I took very subject specific and very free form structure...on "old Quebecois folk songs in french"
So these are not "harmonica" per say. they are song where harmonica could be played.
Therefore it is up to you to create the harmonica playing, both for accompaniment or melody.
(I leave the lyrics to my wife for the most part).
While not harmonica specific..it is a great way to improve ones "musicianship"...which you don't often see mentioned that often.
Nice to be able to play an instrument..but also nice to be known as a musician as well..
we will be playing some of those tunes up in Quebec in a few weeks..we will soon find out if we got the hang of it okay. If playing with people with different languages it is the music and the musician ship that will be the common denominator ...
lot's of good info here from others just thought I would say go for lessons in person if you can..(and of course i u tube plenty as well)
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Tuckster
1561 posts
Apr 26, 2017
7:42 AM
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I played for 20 years before I got a harp teacher. A good one helps you focus on the things you need to work on.It's easy to not realize your weaknesses until a knowledgeable teacher points them out to you. The earlier you start with a teacher,the less bad habits you develop.
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Tuckster
1563 posts
Apr 26, 2017
9:24 AM
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Phil Pennington This is an oldish thread so you might have found someone..... If you live 2 hours west of Philly,you might be near State College. Richard Sleigh lives nearby. He'd be a great teacher!
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