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beginner forum: for novice and developing blues harp players >
Walter Horton
Walter Horton
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Killa_Hertz
1690 posts
Aug 12, 2016
2:49 AM
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Ive been getting pretty deep into Horton the last few months. I find some of his best stuff is on others Albums, through his accompaniment. And not all of it is easy to find.
I took your advice Bee and bought that box set of "Chicago / The Blues Today" it had yet to come in, but just from what I've heard from the 3rd disc of Hortons playing, is well worth it.
MTG i know you were getting into him pretty heavy at one point.
Anyone have any favorite cuts or Albums I should check out?
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SuperBee
3979 posts
Aug 12, 2016
4:59 AM
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Yeah this is the thing about Horton. He wasn't a great singer so most of his work was not as leader.
There's a few things:
I've got a live set called Little Boy Blue. Same set is called 'live at the knickerbocker'
It's pretty late in his career, 1981 I think.
The 1973 album 'with Carey Bell' is pretty cool. There's a transcription book of his work on that record too, if you can find it. By Dave Barrett so attention to detail. Out of print. (I have it. Not for sale but you know, maybe could do scans)
I also have a collection called 'blues harmonica giant'. 3 CDs, (64 tracks total) including 1 disc called 'the deep blues harmonica of Walter Horton', again features Carey Bell as guest vocalist on 3 numbers. It's only a 7 track disc though.
The other 2 are collections of sides he made under his own name, and as a sideman with Jackie Boy, Wilkie nix, jimmy Rogers, Joe hill Louis, mose Vinson, johnny shines, Tampa red, sunnyland slim.
The 1st disc of 28 tracks is stuff recorded in Memphis 1951 to 1953, and 2 tracks from a late 1954 session in Chicago. The second disc has 2 more cuts from that 1954 session, then the other27 tracks are from sideman sessions between 1952 and 1956, Memphis and Chicago.
That's issued on JSP label.
What else? There's one track (mean mistreater) on the Johnny Winter album, and the stuff he did with Muddy and Jimmy Rogers on the I'm Ready album.
There's an album called 'fine cuts' from 1978 which is worth chasing down. And another set called Can't keep lovin' you.
I'm sure I'll think of some more sideman stuff. Oh, yeah there is a discography on line put together by Joe filisko which lists all his recorded work.
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SuperBee
3980 posts
Aug 12, 2016
5:01 AM
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Check out 'Christine' and his 'don't get around much anymore'
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MindTheGap
1736 posts
Aug 12, 2016
5:08 AM
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I'm relying on you to suggest the albums to listen to! But yes, I can't get enough of his work, esp. as sideman.
My ideal would never to play a solo, only accompany. Well, that plus heads, hooks and riffs.
With the specific rule that I can play behind, and support, the vocals like he does. That seems to be a no-no according to the modern view. Well, only allowed if you are a virtuoso, apparently. And yet, as a non-virtuoso, I'm supposed to produce an improvised solo from deep within.
That's topsy-turvy thinking if you ask me.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Aug 12, 2016 5:11 AM
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SuperBee
3982 posts
Aug 12, 2016
6:03 AM
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http://www.filisko.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Walter-Horton-Discography.pdf
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Fil
173 posts
Aug 12, 2016
6:04 AM
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MTG...well said. Accompanying, playing behind, feels more like being part of the band. Done right, of course.
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Phil Pennington
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Killa_Hertz
1691 posts
Aug 12, 2016
2:37 PM
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Yes. I love Christine. One of my favorites. I can play the whole thing.
The one part i can never get to sound write right is that sharp 5,4,4+ 5,4,4+4,3,2. The lick that is replaced by chucks the second time round.
Anyways the albums i have thus far.
Walter and Carey Bell
Live at the Knickerbocker
Harmonica Blues Essentials (probably my least favorite)
Fine Cuts on Vinyl
Soul of Blues Harmonica on Vinyl
An offer you can't refuse (which is half Butterfield)
Live at El Mocambo (downloaded this week and is really becoming one of my favorites. Its a bad club recording, but it's great. Horton was usually shy which is why I think people didn't like his singing. I love his voice ... and on this album he seems very happy and in a very entertainer sort of mood so i think it makes shows him in a different light. Check it out. )
I also have Muddy Walters - Im Ready.
I DEFINITELY want that barret book. I'm going to have to find that one. Thanks for the heads up.
I was looking at the Giant set the other day. Lots of good stuff in there you can't find elsewhere? Or is it a lump of albums i already have???
On your version of Kickerbocker is Sugar Ray on there?? I got the new Remixed edition because the sound quality is much better, but im not sure if it is the exact same album or if they had changed some things.
Thanks for the Filisko listing aswell.
Seems alt of these older players have tons of recordings floating around that aren't exactly easy to track down.
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SuperBee
4049 posts
Aug 30, 2016
2:46 AM
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The Horton book maybe hard to find. Maybe I can do some scans.
Just listening to Giant while I mend a few harps, and thought I'd pass comment on the track Hard Hearted Woman from the 'bonus' disc (the deep blues harmonica of Walter Horton). That's a great little mine of 1st position licks, high and low.
I know I bang on about 1st position a bit. But Horton went there quite a bit. Once you get a few of them down I think first is pretty neat for jamming, but like anything it can get old. Horton stays in 1st for the second number (sick & tired) also I think. At least some of it is first. Sounds like there could be two harps but I haven't studied too closely. Definitely hearing those high end 1st position triplets though.
And the third cut, walter's jump is an A harp in 2nd. So that's pretty cool. You can jam along to the first 3 numbers with just an A harp.
And it's demonstrative of Horton's great tonal variation. I think he was just warming up with those first 3 numbers because he lets rip on track 4, leaving in the morning. Some really handy licks in there, creating choruses from not much that sound really cool.
Yeah, it's not a great production but then again it's pretty neat to show how Horton sounded live,
Track 5, obviously 3rd, a C harp I think. Maybe Carey Bell on chromatic. I was playing along on A harp but I think I'm probably in 12th.
Ok, back to work
Last Edited by SuperBee on Aug 30, 2016 2:48 AM
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SuperBee
4050 posts
Aug 30, 2016
3:02 AM
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Oh yeah, my 'live at the knickerbocker' starts with 3 tracks before Horton comes on. So Horton is only on tracks 4 - 9.
Sorry I didn't see the q b4. Or I just forgot to answer.
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Killa_Hertz
1725 posts
Aug 30, 2016
5:06 AM
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Yea thats how mine is. They are both available for listen on spotitfy. I havent got the chance to listen to the full version of the old one, but in just skipping around, it seems to be the same version just remastered with better sound quality. I actually kindof prefer the lesser quality. Anyways if they are infact the same, the first few track are Sugar Ray Norcia, with Ronnie Earl on Guitar.
I really want to get that Box set you have. I just hope I dont have all of whats on there already. Ive done that before. Bought a box set and ended up with one new track .... lol. But it seems like there are tons of good nuggets on there.
BTW Your "I have this Rule" Have a good time. I like that. It really works. But ever since you brought this up its been killing me to find out the right words. Its never really bothered me before. I mean, I was curious, but now its driving me MAD! .... Lol.
I'm trying to get better at 3rd position. Ive got quite a few licks for it now in the middle register, but the lower I only have a few good ones. And Its not easy to move around and noodle down there in 3rd, so I pretty much just stick to the licks I know down low and just to break up the monotony of the middle register playing.
First position never really did anything for me. But I really want to check out these Horton 1st Pos. Tracks. Maybe if you get the time and are feeling froggy you could post a lil sound clip of some of your 1st position Noodling. I'd really like to hear it. Maybe it could open my eyes to 1st Pos.
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SuperBee
4051 posts
Aug 30, 2016
8:38 PM
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Thing about 1st that got me into was copying jimmy reed and then Stevie wonder on the high end, and that was going ok. Thing is that I always knew I was deficient on the high end so I needed a project that would make me live there for a while. I got a few songs, bright lights from jimmy reed, boogie on from Stevie and cocaine habit from somewhere.
but then that was going ok with the bends and I had a nice G harp so I did Dave barrets low end 1st song lesson 'the tub'. And then I also did Adam's lesson on Cotton's how long can a fool go wrong, which combines the top end with a real nice low end lick.
Something Adam said opened my eyes. He pointed out that the 9 blow in 1st is like the 4 draw in 2nd.
This thought suddenly made sense of the 7 8 9 10 to me. 7 blow is like 2 draw, 8 blow is like your 3 draw and the blow bend is like the 3' and you can bend it real flat to approach an equivalent of the 3", 9 blow is like the 4 and again can be bent similiar to 4'and even flatter to sub for 4 blow (or you can just draw 9) and the 10 blow is like the 6 blow octave and you can bend it to get the equivalent of 5 draw. So basically you can blow and blow bend 7-10 and it's like draw and draw bending 2- 5 plus the 6 blow. Only simpler it seems to me. Once you can blow bend reliably.
I tried transposing an intro to second position song , please give this poor dog a bone. It was neat.
then I listened to Taj Mahal play bright lights and like he kind of simplifies the high end work but he also throws in some low end stuff. I found I could play around with that quite satisfyingly. Then hoochie coochie man and I Started to realise how a lot of 1st position songs were composed of very similiar licks, and now I'm just really on the brink of learning to mix it up, where to jump from one end to the other.
I don't have lots of licks but I have a few and can definitely play in 1st for a couple of songs now.
One thing I really like about it at the moment is that it can get me out of playing a D harp when the song is in A, as so many are, especially if it's a slower number.
I think people shy away from it because blow bending and lots of draw bending too, if you want to sound really bluesy. I mean the harp is easy to play in first if you want to sound really major, but you have to really fight it to make it bluesy in straight harp.
Of course, trust my baby (sonny2, kW) is one of the all time classics, but so is horton's hard hearted woman.
As an aside, one day I mentioned to Jimi Lee I wanted to develop playing first, and he said oh yeah, then you can play stuff like this; and launched into a great rocking piece on the high end, not anything like a slow blues. I so wish the tape was running when he did that. That guy can really play, but he tends to only show his soft jazzy blues stuff. I've heard him in private though, and he's got all the classic stuff plus overblow and half valved
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SuperBee
4058 posts
Sep 01, 2016
5:51 AM
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now that i really come to try it, i believe i am a semitone out. i think hard hearted woman is in Bb rather than A
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