SuperBee
3841 posts
Jun 11, 2016
5:54 PM
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No jobs so decided to start looking at my own harps.
I've learned a bit while working on others harps and reading for problem solving, so now to try a few things on my own kit.
I started yesterday with my gig kit, on the F harp
It's a marine band 1896 of the pre-sealed comb series. One of the last with lacquered tines. It played so well ootb that I've left it alone. I just cleaned it and tuned it. 4 years old at least and still plays great. The comb is getting a little uneven now. I've used this harp a reasonable amount. 3 draw was a bit flat.
On to the E harp; it's a sp20 on Zajac solid comb. I've obviously done some work on it before, but have never been really happy with it
So I compared it to my other 2 E harps and my Bb spiers harp...
And set about straightening the reed plates, then adjusting reeds.
I think it's good. I think I have now got an E harp which plays well, end to end. 10 blow bend is tricky but that could be my technique. I can't seem to play it quietly.
So today it's the Eb and the D harps. The Eb is another stock marine band. I will leave it on its comb and just make sure it's in tune.
The Ds though...in this kit there are 2. I forget how many D harps I have...but between 5 and 10...
One of these is a crossover which has been a good player forever. Probably needs a tuneup. The other is an 1896 on a Zajac comb. I've high hopes I can make a really sweet D harp from this. That's what I'm looking forward to, today...but first...a walk with Genna the Welsh Springer....
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SuperBee
3842 posts
Jun 12, 2016
12:22 AM
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...which turned into a day outdoors..no harp work today. Instead I installed a raised garden bed. Made from composite wood and bamboo fibre...can't get away from comb materials...
My plan for this self indulgent thread is to document the process with a few photos, like some case studies of my crummy harps and how to deal with them. Don't expect it to happen too quickly...I'm just gonna try to catch it up as I go. But right now I'm having a fireside moment.
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Crawforde
120 posts
Jun 12, 2016
4:35 PM
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Great idea!
Thank you.
Some of us newer horn smashers will hopefully learn something.
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SuperBee
3843 posts
Jun 12, 2016
10:34 PM
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heres my Eb marine band
and popping the covers off...draw side first
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SuperBee
3844 posts
Jun 12, 2016
10:42 PM
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There isnt a great deal wrong with this harp...even though its quite old, (manufactured 2008). it played well ootb and hasnt been used all that much:
gaps look ok, nothing too silly
in this shot i'm checking the way the reed enters the slot. i dont want to take the reed plates off, so im pressing the reed with a tool and watching carefully to see whether it has any noticeable tendency to go in belly first or tip first.
this one was a bit 'tip down' so i'm applying a little hard chat to persuade it to correct its ways
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jun 14, 2016 2:05 AM
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SuperBee
3845 posts
Jun 12, 2016
10:49 PM
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1 draw is a bit flat...i'll use this 3-square file...swiss pattern, grade 0
kinda tricky to photograph some of this
now the blow side:
4 Blow was a bit flat...here i'm using a couple of the 'Richard Sleigh' tools, to work on blow reeds without removing the plates. other ideas can also work...support the reed, dont bend it too much, and remove some metal without destroying the reed :)
and the trusty file
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jun 14, 2016 2:12 AM
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SuperBee
3846 posts
Jun 13, 2016
3:37 PM
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My D crossover was next. One of the hardest working harps in my bag...manufactured 2010, I've replaced both 4 and 5 draw.
I'm not sure, this could be as good as a D harp gets. It's the best I've had at least. I checked the reed plates and found both are quite flat. Not much to do except tune it. Octaves are way off. Not surprising. This harp has been played a lot and hard. I'm a 'second position' player and everything in A gets this harp...
After I looked at the D crossover, I remembered that many problems go away when the harp is clean, so I broke out the ultrasonic cleaner and a toothbrush and set about cleaning the rest...
That's A, C and D marine bands on Zajac combs
A and C Crossover
G marine band on corian comb.
There is a G marine band built by Joe Spiers which is still fine, and a Low F 1847 which is also fine atm.
My Bb is a standard marine band, so it won't get the ultrasonic treatment. My spiers Bb however needs a tune up.
So I cleaned them and put them away for another day.
I'll look at the D marine band next.
Once I've worked through the 'playability' issues, I'll have a big tuning session. I prefer to tune several harps over a few hours. It feels more efficient and I get my mind settled into a good place for tuning that way. It's not a job to rush. For me I find I do best to take a mellow calm approach to tune the harps, without pressure.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jun 14, 2016 2:49 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1601 posts
Jun 18, 2016
9:23 PM
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Thats great Bee. I always wanted to see how others do it.
The end result is the same, but i do it a little differently. When you change the shape of your reed you use something inside the slot and push down with your finger.
I put a thin feeler guage under the reed to support it. Then as i lift it i use my thumb exactly as you do. But thats just for taking a light tip down out. I use a few different methods for offsetting the root and things like that, but ....
Interesting to see a new way.
Also those gaps were a bit wide for my taste. Atleast the 123 56 draw. Maybe not. Hard to tell from a picture, but it's Also interesting to see how others prefer their gaps.
That crossover comb was grimy man. Lol. Put some hours on that bad boy.
Good stuff man.
I also have to tune my harps more. Its not as big a deal to me cause i dont play with other musicians as you do. But i still should keep em right.
I wanna get one of those parts cleaners. Rons has em pretty cheap.
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 18, 2016 9:26 PM
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SuperBee
3866 posts
Jun 19, 2016
12:04 AM
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Oh yeah, normally I have plates off but I don't want to take those nailed harps apart. Hard to get a photo and do a two hands job in one hand.
The crossovers...they've been gig harps, which means rehearsal and jam as well as gig, ever since I got them. They are 2010 manufacture plates. I've got G, A, C, D...so all pretty hardworking keys, as in common. So they've all done plenty of work.
All these harps play well already which is why they are in the gig set. Mainly just a couple need gaps retouching and many need a tune up. I'll break out the MasterHarp tuner and take some shots when I do the blow plates
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ME.HarpDoc
164 posts
Jun 19, 2016
6:11 AM
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As a beginner who hasn't done a lot on my own harps, the photos are very helpful. Thanks
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Killa_Hertz
1602 posts
Jun 19, 2016
10:07 AM
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HarpDoc Ive had a few people recently ask about where to learn how to work on harps.
I always point them to Richard Sleighs - Hot Rod Your Harmonica set. It's not cheap, but it well worth it. Close up camera angles that get right inside the reedplates and show you exactly what's going on.
You can get the download version off of Richards website for a little cheaper (which is what i have) or you can get the dvd set that comes with a nice spiral bound book aswell. I wish i got the one with the book. There's supposedly some good extras in there.
Rockin Rons has the DVD set available now.
I highly recommend this. NOTHING i have found will explain it any better. So if your really interested in working on your harps this is a worthy investment.
Hot Rod Your Harmonica DVD + Book Set
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Jun 19, 2016 10:12 AM
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Crawforde
125 posts
Jun 19, 2016
11:14 AM
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Bee, these are great, thanks.
KillaHz, do those books cover any chromatic info?
I'm pretty good with my hands, but my reedwork has been hit and miss so far.
More misses.
I'm used to seeing the results of what I do, and can predict what to do next...
with reeds its, scrape, stop, turn on the tuner, blow,......
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Killa_Hertz
1605 posts
Jun 19, 2016
11:57 AM
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Crawforde there's no chromatic parts in this set. As i understand it gapping isnt a huge deal on the chrom because of the windsavers?
But im sure most of the info still applies. A reed is a reed? Right? Idk i could be totally wrong. I know very little about chromatics. That's my next venture. I want to find a super cheap used chrom on ebay or the flea market to tinker with and likely ruin experimenting.
I think this set might be valuable for chromatics though. Richard Sleigh had a demo of the videos on his website. Search his name, then in his website click the hot rod you harmonica link up top. See what you think. You can see. The camera angles in the demo. They get right up in there. Excellent resource.
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SuperBee
3868 posts
Jun 19, 2016
2:46 PM
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Yeah I dunno,I asked about chromatic myself recently and had no reply.
I have a pre war 270 I just put on a new 'Power' comb, and about to put wind savers on...had news from the shop...I try to shop local but actually, the markup was way ott for these, so I'll be ordering direct from factory in future.
The old 270 was in pretty good shape apart from wind savers...dried up leather but mostly all present. And the harp smells of frankincense. Strongly. I've scrubbed it and new comb and it still smells a bit, but tolerable. I can't use the box though, which is a shame. It's quite playable without wind savers but gets to be a workout after not too long.
I probably should have done some tuning this past weekend. Didn't.
Tuning draw plates is relatively easy, once you get the hang of tuning reeds.
I like that 3 square file and a sanding wand (yet to make an appearance). Some builders like to get very fine with the sanding, even polishing the reeds. I think my approach is good enough and quite a lot better than the factories do, certainly the German factories are very rough. Hohner sometimes gouge very deep, and seydel reeds are often deformed by the rotary tool they use. I'm extremely gentle and careful in comparison.
I use the draw scraper pictured above, usually on the root end of the reed to lower pitch. Similiar tools can do this. I don't use rotary tools but if you have access why not. I can't demonstrate their use though. Similiar principles.
When tuning, support the reed with something, and it's nice to protect the surrounding area.
Be careful to avoid creating weak spots. On the tip of the reed a common problem is to make the edge too thin. Try to work on an area just back a little from the tip. But don't go too far down or you'll find the pitch doesn't rise so fast. I am trying to picture the distance ..,you want to be working on the first 1/4, probably 1/5 or less of the reed. I don't use files on 9 and 10 reeds. Be careful you don't snag the corners of the reed. Or turn the tip into foil. Says the voice of experience.
I usually start with the file and finish with the sanding wand.
The smaller the reed, the less work it takes to change pitch.
Lowering pitch, I usually start with the scraper. I'll try to get a good photo of how I do that, and show some scratches made by pro builders as well.
I have a 'MasterHarp' tuning table which I find handy for blow plates especially, and should be able to get good photos of that in use.
Blow plates are the real pita of tuning.
I find them easier these days but it's been a journey.
Imho a harp is not in tune until it's in tune when played with the covers in place, and that's the real guts of the issue.
But I'll get there. There is no perfect solution. Experience helps. Taking notes helps. Sometimes the things just won't behave consistently. Zajacs 'French tuner' can help. It's worth having.
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Killa_Hertz
1606 posts
Jun 19, 2016
3:59 PM
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I like the french tuner. But it too can be a pain. But its great for getting beat free octaves.
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SuperBee
3901 posts
Jun 28, 2016
5:38 AM
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Here are some photos of tuning my D crossover Blow plate using the Sjoeberg tuner:
tuner
Actually, I'll wait until I can use the desktop for the rest. And just discovered my old phone won't open this thread thanks to the photos
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jun 28, 2016 5:41 AM
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