As many of you know, My Harmonica Skills are rather limited. I've Been On a quest for some time now to figure out more about music theory to expand my knowledge and understanding of music. More specifically Harmonica Music. However I have not been very diligent on said quest and I've learned very little. There's just so much to learn in so many different aspects of the harmonica. I often get sidetracked and end up focusing most of my time on technique. Either learning new or refining those already learned. But I'm coming around slowly on the theory end.
I bought a few Books on the subject a while back, but really hadn't made it very far with them. I really have to be in the right frame of mind to read. I find it hard to slow down enough to sit and read a book.
I really dug into it last night. I just have to say that this book is pretty thorough so far. It goes over Some General Theory with chord structure and things of that nature. It also breaks down some harmonica notation. Im not sure if its official sheet music, but it's seems very official. Its not just a bunch of tabs. But it teaches you how to read it. And also briefly teaches the techniques required to do the notation. Eg. Pulls, Slaps, Etc.
It's not a very long book, which I like. It seems like it doesn't waste alot of time with talking. As Joe Friday says ... "Just The Facts Mam." I like that. It gives the scales and the notes to play over the different chords. It gives alot of information in an easy to understand way. And It Comes With a CD so your not guessing how things should sound. That was the selling point for me, the CD. Because without hearing the groove or the way in which a note should be played ... what good is the book? Right? I really like this book so far. I bought this one used aswell for only about $3. And so far its worth every penny.
Its so much more than just 3rd position. I recommend you check it out. Im not much a fan of Daves teaching style on bluesharmonica.com, but this book is really speaking my language.
For What It's Worth.
P.S. Of Course he also has MANY other books on various other areas of the harp. There is one identical to this for 1st and 2nd positions aswell. Also there are books he wrote on theory and TONS of other stuff. I may check out his book on 1st aswell as the theory book next. ----------
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 13, 2016 6:15 AM
I've got this and I think it is a great reference and introduction, and as you say, pithy. I haven't looked it at for while, so I should really review it before making this comment. But there is something about the spirit of 3rd position that I felt I only 'got' by seeking out and studying real pieces. There seems to be quite a few ways to approach it.
Going beyond the '3rd position is for minor blues' thing, what really opened the door was lessons from Todd Parrott where he showed the rick pickings available from treating the low end as Major (or a mix of major and minor). In that sense it's got similar possibilities as the low end of 2nd position: chromaticism, major and minor blues scales etc.
Once you get that concept, it gives you the option to use, say an A-harp to play in B (not just Bm) instead of having to use an E-harp, which is quite high. Similarly a Bb-harp to play in C rather than the shrill F-harp. I like the high keys, but sometimes they are bit much.
Then there's the chord/split-rich style, that has similarities with the 3rd position on chromatic feel.
I must look at the book again, could be he has it all covered but I wasn't receptive at the time. Be prepared for the fact that much of the general material is repeated from book to book, I guess that's fair enough.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on May 13, 2016 6:40 AM
Repeated ... Yes I sort of figured that, i guess. As this book seems to start out making sure you know everything you need to know first. Which is pretty good. But I assume they will all do that to some degree. Hadn't actually though about it, but it makes sense.
The Todd Parrot lessons. Where they personal lessons or a book/video? I sort of know what your talking about, but not really. Im really trying to learn 3rd this time. Enough BSin. Its time to Do This. Lol,
I would like to learn the things your refering to with using 3rd not only for minor, but for a bunch of stuff.
Im hitting a Sort Of Rut right now anyways. Its been raining for weeks here. Just feels like the right time to buckle down and take it to the next level. ----------
Todd was via skype, what an inspiration he is. I just looked that the David Barrett book, and as I remembered, the lower octave is left to last and it's very 'minor blues scale' - that's the kind of default 3rd position thing - lovely minor melody notes in the middle of the harp, then a growly low-end lick. But there is more.
Just for example...
2' is the major 3rd. So you can bend around 2'' and 2' for that stuff around those notes. So in 3rd position hole 2 plays a similar role to hole 3 in 2nd position. Not quite the same.
And the underused 3D (unbent) is your 6th scale degree. So you can get those lighter phrases rather than just the dark, dark, diminished low end 3rd position.
And on holes 1 and 4 you have the minor 7th, major 7th and tonic (root note, 1st scale degree, whatever). For little chromatic runs - just like you hear a lot on the chromatic harp for blues e.g. ending a line on 4 4' 4+.
See what you think. These are all words and numbers, but if you find the notes by ear - they can become yours!
Last Edited by MindTheGap on May 13, 2016 11:43 AM
Hmm. Damn you know your stuff man. Wish I started this stuff up much earlier. Wasted Youth. Lol. Sorry its been raining here for weeks. Im in a kind of funk lately.
Thats very helpful. The 2 draw acts similar to the 3 in 2nd. ok dig it. I just need to learn how to think 3rd pos. I like the way your going with it. How you can do more with it than just Minor.
Ricci uses 3rd ALOT apparently. And if thats the case, Im pretty sure he doesnt always play minor tunes. So he must use it similarly to the way you describe.
You ve got em even more excited to dig into 3rd Position now. I cant wait to get home and start in on that book.
Tomorrow Im going looking at houses, but you can bet that i'll be in that book and on the net digging into 3rd the rest of the day and weekend. I need more options. Im so tired of playing Blues Scale in 2nd between holes 1 & 6. Its Boring after a year of the same. ----------
To get you started, have a listen to this Paul Delay number. The solo starting around 1m20s he's working that 2 draw.
https://youtu.be/F93e4SJ71lc
Like I say, hole 2 doesn't map exactly to the hole 3 in 2nd position, so don't shoot me. But it does contain those important notes, and you can bend between them.
Just to say the 'classic' 3rd position is wonderful too! That middle octave is very expressive.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on May 13, 2016 12:32 PM
Can't remember if it would fit your needs, Killa, (I'm on the road for a couple weeks) but I have a book by David Harp, "Music Theory Made Easy" with a CD that I didn't get all the way through that was pretty simple and good. (You're not the only one who gets distracted in your journey).
ME.HarpDoc - I think those David Harp books look like just the thing, and he's got a 'harmonica positions' book too that looks excellent. But kHz has said before he prefers other sources to books, so I was trying here to introduce the 'theory' by ear, if you see what I mean?
Telephone Blues - wonderful that's a classic. Now that's that heavy, dark 3rd position minor/diminished sound I was talking about. That's the kind of thing you will pick up from David Barrett's book.
That opening phrase uses 1 2 2'' 3''' 4 4+. That includes the scale degrees 1, b3, b5 which is 'diminished triad' and is super-dark and miserable. Then the solo at the end starts in the minor-ish middle octave, and ends up at the bottom again.
These are fantastic sounds to exploit, I just think that there's more to 3rd.
Look at it this way: in 2nd position the lower end is naturally light and bouncy until you bend those blue notes to make it bluesy and dark. Go a bit further and you can make it minor. In 3rd position it's naturally minor, but by using bends (less bending in fact) you can lighten it towards major.
Thanks yall. I will look into that theory book, especially if it has a CD with it.
I just find books hard to digest and hard to find the time to get in the reading Frame of mind. But im finding that all the good resources seem to be in print form so Ill do what i gotta do i guess.
Mtg it makes alot of sense the way your putting it. Ill have to come back to this thread periodically as i learn more.
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 13, 2016 11:52 PM
...I think the normal start to learning 3rd position is to stick on a B minor blues track and delight in the fully minor phrases available. Instead (or as well) try putting on a B MAJOR blues, and pick out a boogie pattern.
Re the book, I don't think it has a CD unfortunately.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on May 13, 2016 11:44 PM
Stop me if this doesn't hit the spot, but with just a little theory, and it is just a little, you can unlock such a lot.
Having been through this myself, I think that 2nd position is set up right for learning purely by ear and feel, if you wish to do it that way. Clearly, people do very well with it. Because of the accidental note layout on holes 1-6. Which IMO is one of the reasons the top octave is a hurdle, it's not all there on a plate.
But stick with only what's intuitive then you might end up like the Tijuana Taxi man, trying to force every song into 2nd position whether it likes it or not. With 3rd position, I feel it's not so intuitive, so a little study makes a big difference.
I remember Ronnie saying he thought of the positions like cars. I can't remember the makes/models but it was something like: 1. 1st position Model T Ford 2. 2nd position Family car (?) 3. 3rd position Super car (Ferrari or something)
Make of that what you will. What I made of it was that 2nd position was for daily use, bread and butter. 3rd was more twitchy and the gear change was awkward, clutch stiff, but it rewarded the skilful! Capable of much more, that kind of idea. But you might crash it into a wall. And the insurance is higher....I'm drifting...
(And not forgetting 1st position, not sure, 'old timey'?).
Last Edited by MindTheGap on May 14, 2016 1:28 AM
