MindTheGap
1502 posts
Apr 19, 2016
11:59 PM
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Recommended in the 'great albums' thread, I've been listening to Chicago/The Blues/Today. Johnny Young, Tighten Up caught my ear. Walter Horton on harmonica. Listening on speakers, the harp seemed very low in the mix. Clearer on headphones, it's panned hard to one side.
There's all sorts in here: comping, fills, rhythmic chucks, repeated notes, long held notes, interesting solo ideas.
We are always being told if you're at your Jam, you shouldn't play over the vocals. Maybe that's current 'jam rules'. But if we are following the seven habits of our heroes...
You need a B-harp for this one. Or a pitch shifter :)
https://youtu.be/R6R_3NEqlmc
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Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 20, 2016 2:39 AM
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Killa_Hertz
1110 posts
Apr 20, 2016
5:27 AM
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Mtg ... YES! ... I listened to these albums on spotify after Bee sugested then. All great songs, but i was a bit disappointed because i already had them all on other albums. Until i got to the third CD and heard this. Half the cd is johnny young. I tried digging up on them, but there is very limited recordings done by this group. I may buy just the 3rd cd of the Set. Its great. Ive been really diggin Big Walter lately. Im currently learning "Have A Good Time" With Carey Bell. With Adams Tradebit. The nuances in Hortons playing are incredible.
Ill have to check this specific track out more closely now that you ve brought it up.
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MindTheGap
1506 posts
Apr 20, 2016
5:47 AM
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BTW, on the other subject, I feel there's some very soft, delicate playing in here. Nuances, yes. And lots of long notes without vibrato. Tasteful.
You see I'm so swayed by what I'm listening to at any point. I hear this and think, that's it! Then I hear some wild, noisy, vibrato drenched stuff and I think, that's it!
I guess at some point I'll have to give in and accept that I'm not a wild, noisy, vibrato-drenched sort of person.
What I really do like in this song, for example, is the fact that he's playing the whole time, and it's supporting the song. I've been told that isn't what I should like.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 20, 2016 6:08 AM
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Fil
133 posts
Apr 20, 2016
7:27 AM
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I think there's a playing in front skill and a playing under/behind skill and the two are different. I'm making some progress on the former, working like hell to catch up on the latter. My sense is that maybe new players don't have a grasp of the difference, this are advised to stay out of the other soloist's way.
MTG, you want to be that classy nuanced player who can get noisy, vibrato drenched, wild when the time comes. Keep them on the edge of their seats....
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Phil Pennington
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Killa_Hertz
1111 posts
Apr 20, 2016
9:42 AM
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I agree fil. I like when someone can dance around the band. Play with the band, then fall back behind to support, then come out front for a solo and fade back again. Thats beautiful.
Mtg i think it's all good. Any one thing will get old after a while, no matter how great.
For instance he may have been playing in the back the whole time on that one.
But the next one maybe just use a one chord hook with a few dazzling notes here n there. Then the next really rip it up. Acoustic, then heavy amped, then maybe play thru a pog or a leslie pedal. Just variety. Every song something new. A new style. I think that's where the money is. That's the sweetness. Being able to do it ALL and have people guessing as to what you ll play next.
That's what I aspire to.
Maybe my opinions will change, but as of right now. I LOVE IT ALL!!! I WANNA PLAY IT ALL!!!
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 20, 2016 9:46 AM
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MindTheGap
1508 posts
Apr 21, 2016
2:48 AM
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You want it ALL? That's a lot of stuff :)
I've been listening to all these Johnny Young tracks and together they are a real primer in tasteful comping. What a good find.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 21, 2016 2:48 AM
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SuperBee
3632 posts
Apr 21, 2016
4:45 AM
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with big walter you have to find his sideman work. joe filisko made a big walter discography which attempts to list all his known recordings. good project collecting them all. you realise how much recycling he did, for one thing.
i agree its a big ask to do it all. thats one of the problems that plagues harmonica players now i think; there is so much information and so many good examples of different styles each of which takes a lifetime to master for a full-timer...and amateur part-timers find it very difficult to know how to be themselves, find their own bag...but also it doesnt matter
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MindTheGap
1509 posts
Apr 21, 2016
5:00 AM
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I see. The recycling aspect is one I like. I like the idea that there is a finite number of groovy things to play, and a person might collect the set. I find the endless creativity of some modern playing to be a bit daunting. Not just to listen to, but as someone learning the thing.
I know that some regard constant variation as a goal. Nothing wrong with that. But I still like fish n chips even though I've eaten it many, many times. Never tire of chips.
OT I heard, in the news, an Aussie expression I've not heard before, maybe I'm the only one. "Going off like a frog in a sock". Nice.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 21, 2016 5:07 AM
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MindTheGap
1510 posts
Apr 21, 2016
7:19 AM
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Just have to mention one thing really like and must remember to do, which is right near the end of My Black Mare he plays a repeated 1/4 note 2Ds then turns it into swung 1/8 notes by switching between 2D and 3B. Or at least that's what I think. Simple and effective.
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Killa_Hertz
1129 posts
Apr 21, 2016
9:49 AM
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I just like the fact that guys like SBW II and Walter Horton sound SO GOOD acoustically that all they need is a harp. Not worried about what mic or what pedals or what hot new amp. Just play the damn thing and sound amazing.
That is incredible to me. And i figure if you can do that, the rest is cake. Lol.
I know there are tons of styles. And it would take 10 lifetimes to master it all. But it isn't gonna stop me from trying. Lol.
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Glass Harp Full
129 posts
Apr 21, 2016
3:43 PM
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MTG - I haven't heard "going off like a frog in a sock" for ages. As far as I know it was coined by Irish comedian Jimeoin who had a popular TV show in Australia some years ago. In high school my friends and I would use this phrase to describe almost anything that was exciting, fun or a bit out of control, e.g. "This party's going off like a frog in a sock", "This concert's going off like a frog in a sock".
Thanks for bring back those memories :)
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MindTheGap
1511 posts
Apr 21, 2016
11:43 PM
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GHF - Ah right. I've seen Jimeoin over here, on TV at least. Observational comedy, not normally my cup of tea but this was funny. It's a recent phrase then, I thought it might have been 'traditional'.
kHz - I saw your anti-amped-harp sayings on the main forum. Well, last night I tried not quite 'no amp' but just playing my DM13 straight into the PA. Going for that Sonny Blake Lo-Fi kind of thing, and I really like it. After striving for the refined cupped-mic-with-crackly-breakup for quite some time, it was refreshing. I also employed the Harp Break, but with the gain right down low so as to add just a hint of valve-y breakup like I hear on the records.
I feel that's the Walter Horton vibe in these pieces, particular the Johnny Young numbers. Just a touch of distortion.
Maybe I've found my new paradigm, at least for this week. I reckon I've been listening to vids of awesome mics and valve amps too much. It's easy to get caught up in it, fun too, but it's some kind of horrible addiction and I must shake it.
I'm going in search of a Shure 585 - or apparently there is a Realistic Highball-2 that is a carbon copy. But you have to get the older Dual-Z version, as I nearly learned to my cost.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 21, 2016 11:55 PM
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MindTheGap
1512 posts
Apr 22, 2016
12:40 AM
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This is the kind of thing I mean, DM13+HB->PC. It's a trick to work out what will sound good with a band. IMO this sort of sound was much clearer in practice than the hard-cupped-mic-compressed-distorted sound I've used - where you seem to need tons of pure volume to hear it properly. I think the compressed/crackly sound is lovely on it's own (i.e. awesome mic/amp demos) or with quiet instruments, but seems to get lost in an ensemble without lots of WATTS.
Lo-Fi is the new way!
I have to credit Grey Owl's experiments too - his little contact mic seem to be giving that sound of feel. Basically clean, but lo-fi.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 22, 2016 2:05 AM
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