MindTheGap
1391 posts
Apr 02, 2016
3:27 AM
|
After all the talk of new brand East Top on the main forum, when they came up in the UK I couldn't resist and so bought one.
East Top T-004 Bb £8.99 delivered. It just arrived. I'm writing this write now as so I get the first impressions down OOTB. Then I'm going to adjust it and write again.
It comes with a rather nice cleaning cloth, and an case that's on the cheaper side. But not much worse than the standard SP20 box.
The form is very much like a harpmaster. The print on the covers looks swish from a moderate distance, but close up looks a little smeary.
But, all the notes play. I can easily get ALL the bends including 10'' and 10' (as much as I can get decent 10' on any harp). The bottom notes feel too open for my taste. After about hole 4 they seem right enough.
So far, very much like a SP20. Out with the toothpick and see what can be adjusted.
EDIT: The covers were advertised as chromed steel. But they don't respond to a magnet, so I suspect stainless steel.
----------
Favourite Threads
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 02, 2016 3:31 AM
|
MindTheGap
1392 posts
Apr 02, 2016
4:37 AM
|
Ok. As expected the gaps on the low end were big. Much like the SP20s I've had when they arrive.
But the reeds are very springy, i.e. hard to adjust to a new setting. With the movement available with the reed plates on, I was only able to close the gaps to some extent. I suspect phosphor-bronze, which is much springer than brass.
I reckon to gap it properly, I'd have to take the reed plates off. Nine reed plate screws btw.
Anyway, with the improved gaps, it felt better at the low end. Not quite as sharp as my harpmaster when A/B'd but not bad.
My conclusion is that this is in the 'proper harp' rather than the 'cheap harp' category. If you know what I mean.
At 1/5th price of a Crossover, worth considering for particular purposes e.g. a backup if you are prone to getting stuck reeds when performing for instance.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 02, 2016 6:13 AM
|
Halffast
35 posts
Apr 02, 2016
7:07 AM
|
Do they make them in minor keys ?
|
MindTheGap
1395 posts
Apr 02, 2016
10:29 AM
|
I can't find any info on them, other than what I've read on MBH. Other talk has been about the budget chromatics they make. This model number doesn't even match the other diatonic model people discussed on here.
----------
Favourite Threads
|
Harmlessonica
199 posts
Apr 02, 2016
3:05 PM
|
Dang. And I just bought a Harpmaster too, thinking £18 was a good deal.
thanks for the heads up MTG.
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
rogonzab
927 posts
Apr 02, 2016
3:37 PM
|
MindTheGap, do you have a Harpmaster to compare? If they are the same, I found my new favorite brand/model.
----------
Sorry for any misspell, english is not my first language.
|
Rontana
317 posts
Apr 02, 2016
7:02 PM
|
Rockin' Ron's is carrying Easttops. He lists a number of different models and has specs on the page. I'd drop him a line for more info.
|
MindTheGap
1396 posts
Apr 03, 2016
12:25 AM
|
Harmlessonica - £18 is a very good deal - where was that from? Honestly, I'd rather have a harpmaster especially that price. Mostly for aesthetic and brand-loyalty reasons.
rogonzab - yes I have a Bb harpmaster to compare. Size and shape they are 'identical' as far as I can tell. They feel the same in the mouth. The Easttop has a cheaper finish e.g. the lettering on the covers and the comb. But mechanically everything fits and works.
rontana - Thanks, yes that sparked the discussion I think. In the UK I only found them at one place (simpson's guitars) and only one model and a limited set of keys.
This morning I removed the reedplates and adjusted the reeds closer. The plates screws were easy to remove and everything seemed like it fitted well, and the screws were at a sensible tightness. The ulta-springy reeds really needed leaning on to adjust them. I'm not used to that.
The welded reeds also had a slight twist to them, all the same direction, which I straightened on a few with some tweezers, but it didn't seem to make any difference to the response at all.
Result is still a bit softer at the bottom end than my harpmaster, but perfectly acceptable, to me at least. With the harpmaster you can make the low notes clack around a bit when you start them which adds acoustic grit (mean anything to anyone)? The Easttop is smoother.
Here is a recording, which of course demonstrates nothing really. Superbee mentioned Jerry McCain's 'Steady' elsewhere, so this includes that intro bit over the V chord (acoustic and amped).
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 03, 2016 12:33 AM
|
MindTheGap
1397 posts
Apr 03, 2016
12:43 AM
|
Here's a demo of the 'clacky low end thing' I'm on about. Harpmaster first then Easttop. Whatever it sounds like to you, it does feel and sound different to the player - honest!
EDIT: I listened on headphones etc, and although to me there is a timbre difference, they both sound just as clacky. Oh well - there you are then.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 03, 2016 12:59 AM
|
Killa_Hertz
928 posts
Apr 03, 2016
7:37 AM
|
Sounds very nice. For £8?!? Wonder what aset goes for. Im gonna have to try one some day. I ve been interested in a couple harps. I wanted to try an east top, harp master, and a delta frost. The wood delta frost looks nice to me aswell. I dig the bronze reeds. Manjis have em. They make a real nice sound.
Mtg. Sounds exactly like every harp i get. As far as 4 up being acceptable and 123 needing some attention.
MTG. When i have a harp with tight tough reeds like that i usually move toward the rivet end. (Or what i call the root) if you apply a little pressure up at the rivet end it should fix it without having to take it appart.
And actually i tend to push it down a little farther than i should. To where the tip of the reed is now in the slot. Then push the tip up from inside the hole with a toothpick, just enough so that i can slide my feelerguage plinker under it. then hold the root with my thumb nail so it can't be pulled back up. Then i use the feeler guage to pull the rest of the reed back up out of the slot, using my other thumb to give it a slight arch.
This gives you a pretty good start on a reed shape. To get the reed going thru the slot correctly. Theres a few other ways i do it also, but this one is pretty effective. And the tweezer method r sleigh uses. Or instead of using the feeler guage you can put a toothpick (i use a metal pick. Similar to a metal toothpick) put a tooth pick across the slot under the reed(after you have pushed the root down and pushed the tip back up out of the slot) Push down on the root with your thumbnail so it stays down and push the pick toward the root, which will stretch it back up. This works pretty well also. Anyways rant over. Apologies to BEE. LOL.
----------
Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.
And Don't Pet The Monkey ... He Bites!
|
MindTheGap
1399 posts
Apr 03, 2016
7:51 AM
|
It's only going to appeal if you like the recessed combs, which I do of course. But yes, very cheap £8.99 in fact, so £9. Then again, cheap things are only good value if they are any use. For me this is useful as a backup or carry-round.
Thanks for the 'rivet end' tip. I might try that. I've not had to do that before. I want to stress how much more resilient these reeds are than any others I've come across. We've had the 'plastic' discussion before :) Well, these ones ARE NOT plastic! Sometimes I've used a cocktail stick - broke at once. Or a toothpick which is a lot stronger. Also broke. I had to use 'special measures': with the reed plates off, pushing the draw reeds right through the other side and bending them right down with my finger! I thought they might snap off, but that still only closed the gap by a mm or so.
The low reeds had quite an arc on the actually, so it's possible that attacking the reed end would just push the whole arc down into the slot. I don't know if that's bad thing or not. But previously I've reduced gaps largely by flattening the arc somewhat (ending up like that I mean). Any thoughts on that?
----------
Favourite Threads
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 03, 2016 8:00 AM
|
MindTheGap
1400 posts
Apr 03, 2016
8:05 AM
|
Oh, I took it with me on a long country walk today. Mrs MTG said (unbidden) that sounds good. I was playing bits from that 'Steady'. Nuff said.
If I were to drop it in the mud and it sinks, it's only £9.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 03, 2016 8:52 AM
|
Harmlessonica
201 posts
Apr 03, 2016
9:05 AM
|
MTG, the Harpmaster was from ebay, a special offer. Not sure if that's still running.
Thanks for the demo recordings. I've often wanted a cheap harp for carrying around that I didn't have to worry about if anything happened to it. Looks like this fits the bill perfectly.
I've seen the east top on Amazon for £9.99 - has the price increased or did you buy elsewhere? Still beats that all-important double figure price threshold though!
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
MindTheGap
1402 posts
Apr 03, 2016
11:43 PM
|
Harmlessonica - I checked, it seems to be £9.99 on Amazon and £8.99 on ebay, from the same supplier. I guess it reflects the different costs of each website.
The ones on Rockin' Ron's site are different models: T008K and T008S sandwich type. It does mention phosphor-bronze reeds.
I found the manufacture website. Many, many models. The T004 is in the 'Professional' series as are the T008, but there is not much more info.
http://www.bee-harmonica.com/en/product.asp?Pone=1
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 04, 2016 12:16 AM
|
Harmlessonica
205 posts
Apr 04, 2016
1:04 AM
|
Ah, found it and ordered one... Searching without the model number seemed to work better.
Thanks, will post my own impressions when I get chance.
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
MindTheGap
1405 posts
Apr 04, 2016
1:16 AM
|
Great. It'll be interested to compare notes. As Superbee says, taking a sample of one doesn't mean much. Could be I got lucky (or unlucky). Welcome to the crazy world of phosphor bronze.
What key did you get?
The website is totally blurb-free: it is a harmonica and it has 10 holes. Unlike Hohner with it's wild eulogies to every model. I'd like a bit of blub actually.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 04, 2016 1:19 AM
|
Harmlessonica
206 posts
Apr 04, 2016
4:09 AM
|
I ordered an A. I actually have a Manji in A also so it'll be interesting to compare with regards to the reeds.
I did find the Manji reeds pretty stiff at first but very responsive after some days play.
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
Killa_Hertz
935 posts
Apr 04, 2016
5:36 AM
|
Yea. I dont find any of my harps actually have a break in period. ACCEPT for The Manji. They most definitely do. They don't quite play right until you put a little time on em.
MTG re Arching. Yes if you push that arch into the slot.... Es No Bueno. You don't want that. The long and short of it (the way R Sleigh shows it in Hot Rod Your Harp) if you have the reed plate removed, look at it from the underside (the side without the reeds) with a light below to see the reveal. You want to push the reed in to see how it closes. It will most likely be tip first. (You have to push it down from different points to get a real idea because your influencing it by pushing it) the best point seems to be about a 1/3 of the way off the rivet, but still do multiple points to get an idea. And you want the whole reed to close the reveal at the same time. Tougher than it sounds. I suggest you check out hot rod your harmonica. Its about $40 for the download, but i think it's worth it.
----------
Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.
And Don't Pet The Monkey ... He Bites!
|
SuperBee
3574 posts
Apr 04, 2016
6:22 AM
|
Bee-harmonica huh? Sounds like my kinda thing...
You are a good ad for Richard Sleigh, Killa_! I have no quibble with that; spreading the good oil.
All the sources you name are the same as I refer also. I was lucky enough to spend an hour or so with Kinya (via Skype)...not that we did much reedwork other than tuning...although he did make a couple points about clearing slots with shims...oh and cleaning burrs which sometimes happen when you tune with files...that's the difference when you speak to someone with that much expertise; little things they probably don't even think important enough to write but mention in passing. If I was in the States I'd definitely be booking some time with Richard...though he doesn't give too much away for free...or cheap...
Anyway...i second the recommendation on hryh. For anyone who is interested enough to fork out. Not everyone cares to do this stuff...
To wander back to the topic though...
Given the similarities, should we think it likely these originate from the same source as harp master, delta frost and some other harp that I think Brendan Power has been marketing?
|
Harmlessonica
209 posts
Apr 04, 2016
6:34 AM
|
Yeah, seems quite evident one factory is manufacturing harps on demand with custom branding.
Can't wait for the Walmart version, maybe we'll get it even cheaper? :)
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
Killa_Hertz
937 posts
Apr 04, 2016
9:44 AM
|
Bee .. yea my intention isn't to sell stuff ofcourse .. lol. i also don't want to give away what Sleigh charges money for, but i think it's ok to give an over view. So that those who are interested enough to fork out the money can get an idea of what he teaches. There really isnt a ton of stuff in hryh that you can't find elsewhere. But those things that you can't are worth the price of admission, i think anyways. The video angles and attention to explaining details and multiple ways of doing things, are very helpful to getting your harps rockin.
LMAO @ Harmless ... Walmart Brand All Day Baby!
Whats this harp brendan power had been marketing? And are they really from the same factory? Doesn't suprise me one bit, alot of things are made in one factory and rebranded. Cracks me up that people think that Acme (grocery store) makes all their own store brand products and has their own dairy farm, pharmaceutical factory, etc.
Whats yalls thoughts on the delta frost??? Does it compare to any other harps?? I've been n intersted in trying one for a while.
Matter of fact ... to make BEE happy ill make a new thread. Hold that thought. Lol.
----------
Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.
And Don't Pet The Monkey ... He Bites!
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Apr 04, 2016 9:45 AM
|
Tiggertoo1962
69 posts
Apr 04, 2016
11:08 AM
|
It sure doesn't sound like a 9 quid harp, MTG, that's for sure. After trying to play the first excerpt you put up, I'm wondering how and when you manage to get rid of all that drawn in air... think I need to start practising circular breathing ;).
Nice little arpeggio too, starting on the 2D around the 18 secs mark. Think I need to take that one slowly at first, as I keep getting 5 hole noises in there, either by over running onto the 5D or blowing before my mouth has got up to the 6 hole. Oh well, practise, practise, practise...
|
MindTheGap
1409 posts
Apr 04, 2016
3:27 PM
|
kHz thanks for the tip. I tried it, although it needed some manhandling to fix the arc so it did as you suggest. In fact, the tip was going in 'late' previously. Those low notes are closer to the harpmaster now, the difference is marginal.
I have to say that the difficulty in adjusting these reeds is a downside, although maybe it just needs getting used to vs brass. The upside is that you don't have to be delicate! Quite the opposite. On the other hand, maybe they will last forever.
Do they sound different? Without much evidence I've taken the side of 'reed material shouldn't matter much', and I still that's true enough - but I do detect a difference in timbre here. I think a non-harp player would think they were the same.
Tiggertoo - thank you. Re breath, I follow Winslow's advice in his book and release a sneaky breath during pauses. I've adopted the tactic of making them audible sometimes, but in rhythm. Re arpeggio, as I say it's from the start of 'steady'. The rest of it is something I heard James Cotton do on a live version of Rocket 88.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 04, 2016 3:33 PM
|
Killa_Hertz
968 posts
Apr 07, 2016
5:21 PM
|
Mtg re arch. When i have an upward arch to get rid of .. i find the best way:
In my "feeler guage swiss army knife" as i call it .. lol. I have two feeler guages that i shaped exactly like eachother. The bottom one quite thin, the top one quite thick. These act as a sort of tweezerz. I put the thinner side under the reed and the thick side on top and squeeze it together. Then put an upward pressure from underneath and slide back toward the tip. The pressure varies with arch degree and reed material, but its essentially like curling a balloon string (if that makes sence) accept your uncurling. Anyways thats a little trick i use.
Re reed material and sound. I think different reed materials definatly sound different. As do comb materials. Surely they ARE different (i would think) if examined by the right equipment. However its not HUGE and when recorded i think makes very little difference. Aswell as to the untrained listener, even live. So all in all the point should be moot, but if it sounds better to ME it effects my playing for the positive(i think anyways). It may all be psychological, idk. But thats my thoughts anyhow.
Also different reed materials are oftennon different harp models all together, so alot of variables there. Cover plates, etc. So idk. Would be interesting to see it covered scientifically.
-------
|
Harmlessonica
215 posts
Apr 08, 2016
5:25 AM
|
Not only did my Easttop arrive yesterday, but ironically my Harpmaster (ordered separately from different supplier) also !
I can concur that physically they appear to be identical, bar the branding. The easttop was noticeably more scuffed for some reason, whether that was to do with poor handling/storage at the factory or the dealer is impossible to say.
Tonally they seem identical to me, however the easttop is definitely more prone to squeals on the bends (though my bending technique leaves a lot to be desired). That said, I don't hear the same amount of squealing on the Harpmaster. Both harps are in the key of A.
Seems to me that the extra cost for the Harpmaster goes into quality control and setup time - but of course you're probably better off tailoring the reeds to your own requirements.
Overall, very impressed with the easttop so far. Actually tempted to sell some of my other harps and replace them with these...
Will try and make some recordings if I get time this weekend.
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
Killa_Hertz
976 posts
Apr 08, 2016
10:48 AM
|
My opinion ... never sell your other harps. My opinions have changed more times in the last year than i can count. Now i love all the models i have. They reach have their pros n cons. But if you sell your other models you won't be able to revisit them n see if your opinions have changed.
For what is worth.
----------
|
MindTheGap
1434 posts
Apr 08, 2016
1:48 PM
|
Yes I thought I noticed a slight of a tendency towards squeal when I first got it. Not as much as a Lee Oskar though. But it's gone now, I think after a bit a playing you learn to avoid it. Not sure how exactly. I heard it was to do with having narrower reeds.
If you adjust them, it'd be interesting to read about what you find.
----------
Favourite Threads
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 08, 2016 1:49 PM
|
Harmlessonica
217 posts
Apr 09, 2016
4:18 PM
|
Killa, I agree to some extent - I like most of my harps, but I simply can't justify the expense, considering my lack of time and skill to use them. So if I'm not playing certain ones, I feel I need to recoup my losses.
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
Harmlessonica
218 posts
Apr 09, 2016
4:42 PM
|
I seem to recall reading somewhere (I think on a Suzuki site) that the Harpmaster has Phospher bronze reeds... yet today I opened my harpmaster and the Easttop to compare.
...so now I realise why the Easttop seemed stiffer and encouraged me to draw harder for the bends, thereby producing more squeals.
When I tried to adjust some gaps, I could feel noticeable toolmarks when running a toothpick along the easttop reeds, but they went into shape reasonably easily. Easier than steel reeds anyhow.
There was some quite noticeable twist on some reeds, angled to one side, though I was worried trying to straighten them might worsen the problem so I left them as is.
Generally speaking, the bends I'm able to do on other harps seem to be coming out okay now, and will probably improve with more playing time.
I'd happily recommend these to other beginners who have a limited budget. In fact, I'm tempted to sell my Harpmaster for another Easttop in a different key!
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
Last Edited by Harmlessonica on Apr 09, 2016 11:19 PM
|
MindTheGap
1444 posts
Apr 09, 2016
10:44 PM
|
I can't see the pics - is it just me? But from the description, mine also had very noticeable tuning marks on at the rivet end. I didn't do any tuning as it seemed fine to me. And my reeds all had a twist to them. Didn't seem to cause a problem, or any effect at all very much in the ones I detwisted.
Interesting that you found them easy to adjust. But then I've never tried steel reeds, could be all relative.
Now I've stopped thinking/comparing/meditating on my Bb, and I'm just playing it, I think it's fine.
----------
Favourite Threads
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 09, 2016 10:46 PM
|
Harmlessonica
219 posts
Apr 09, 2016
11:21 PM
|
My bad, I fixed the pics.
----------
Forum Search Direct Link
|
MindTheGap
1447 posts
Apr 10, 2016
12:54 AM
|
Ta. Yes, exactly like that. Must be part of the manufacture. Result of welding? tuning? All the reeds had a little twist like turbine blades, all in the same direction. Maybe it's the new secret thing, and I've just undone mine!
I'm not going to move over to Easthops entirely, but I am going to get a spare G. If they do establish themselves, then we can watch the prices go up.
----------
Favourite Threads
|
SuperBee
3589 posts
Apr 10, 2016
8:37 PM
|
Thanks for the photos. The combs possibly have the same source but it seems clear the reed plates are from a different production line. ie not just a no label Suzuki.
I'm gonna have another crack at getting a promaster into good shape soon. I'll give some thought to the phosphor bronze factor. My belief at the moment is that while it may be less malleable than brass, it's much easier to work than steel.
|
Killa_Hertz
1003 posts
Apr 11, 2016
2:46 AM
|
I find the manji reeds (bronze) and session steel/1847 (steel) reeds to be pretty close as far as workability. They re both a lot tougher than brass, that's for sure. But either way, once you have it setup you shouldn't have to mess with it much. Accept to maybe open a sticky gap
----------
|
MindTheGap
1450 posts
Apr 11, 2016
3:08 AM
|
Maybe I overdid it with my description of setting the reeds then. Don't want to put anyone off.
I can't help but think that phosphor-bronze reeds should last much longer than brass, what with it being a proper spring material. But these things aren't necessarily dictated by common sense.
You know the old physics chestnut that hiqh-quality glassware cracks in the dishwasher, whereas cheap petrol-station glass remain intact? Simply as a result of the thickness of the glass. Those Lee Oskar reeds seem flimsy but have a reputation for longevity.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Apr 11, 2016 3:12 AM
|
