Rikus
15 posts
Mar 11, 2010
1:16 AM
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Hey everybody,
I need some advice on amplification.
At the moment I only play acoustically, but I'm in the process of selling an old 30 watt solid state amp to buy myself a small 5 watt all tube amp.
My budget is a bit tight and the selection isn't awesome here, but I'm aiming at buying a small Laney Cub8. I'd like to be able to use the amp for harp and guitar if possible.
How different are the requirements for the two instruments? If I for example bias the amp favour one (replacing tubes and maybe speaker) will the other sound crap through it as a result?
R.
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MrVerylongusername
959 posts
Mar 11, 2010
1:30 AM
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I don't think it's unfeasible - what you need for the two instruments are very different, but if your budget is tight you can compromise. Tube swaps (in terms of gain factor) are helpful for controlling feedback, but not absolutely essential. The most helpful thing will be good tone controls. I'm not sure the single tone pot on the Cub 8 will be enough to help you dial in good tone for both instruments; a graphic EQ pedal could be very useful (and can also help tame feedback). I'd test drive the amp before you buy it and see if it does what you want.
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5F6H
5 posts
Mar 11, 2010
1:54 AM
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Are you planning to play harp & guitar at the same time through the amp?
If not, there shouldn't be a problem, you might have to compromise the harp set up a little to keep a decent guitar tone.
If you were going to play the 2 simultaneously, then you really want 2 channels each with their own vol, tone/treble/bass controls. Not common on 5W amps. A tolex 2x10" Fender would be ideal if amp choice were more open.
I guess, if you just have 1 channel, that you could also try plugging the harp mic straight into the amp & run the guitar through a boost pedal with it's own tone controls, like perhaps the Boss '59 Bassman pedal? (Though the pedal costs about as much as the amp in this instance!).
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Ryan
206 posts
Mar 11, 2010
2:16 AM
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5F6H,
Have you ever tried the Boss '59 Bassman pedal as an amp modeler for the harmonica? I know this is off topic, but recently I've been looking around at different amp modelers that I could plug into a PA or a clean solid state amp. I think that pedal sounds pretty good for guitar, but I'm wondering how it would sound for harp. Has anybody tried it?
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5F6H
6 posts
Mar 11, 2010
4:44 AM
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Sorry Ryan, not really a pedal user (apart from delay & possibly the LW Octave for difficult amps). Tried out the 59 Bassman pedal with a guitarist through a tolex fender recently, we couldn't really dial in a Tweed Bassman sound, but having the tone controls as well as the boost looked like a handy possibility re. my last post.
I'd be more inclined to try the LW Harp Attack (effectively a tube amp in a pedal) for your scenario, Stephen Schneider has posted some excellent clips on Youtube of the HA in action. Some have found that usind a DI box in conjunction with the HA helps.
Pedals like the Boss 59 Bassman are typically just going to add a degree of SS, single ended distortion (harsh, fuzzy), they're more designed to benefit from the dynamics of an amp being pushed, with the pedal in front. Not saying that you won't get a sound you like re. distortion, but if amp-like dynamics are what you are after you may be left wanting?
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Rikus
16 posts
Mar 11, 2010
5:52 AM
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Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not too fussed to compromise a little if it means I can use it for both.
Thanks Mr.V - I'll definitely try and get a feel for it before I buy.
@5F6H - nope, I meant playing through the amp individually, not together.
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2010 5:53 AM
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Nastyolddog
398 posts
Mar 11, 2010
6:10 AM
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Yo Bro have you looked at the Bugera V5 it looks an intresting little amp,
could make a good dual purpose amp
has quite a few gizmos on it
and a real reverb tank..
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Bluefinger
125 posts
Mar 11, 2010
7:33 AM
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I don't know what's on the market these days but the saying that a good guitar amp is a bad harp amp and vice versa is not true. My best sounding amp for both is my Tweed Pro, period. I started using the harp at gigs now and I brought a Tweed Super for the harp which is great for both as well but I don't like carrying so much stuff with me all the time. I have to find a way to play both through the same amp without too much fumbling on the controls between songs ... a Tweed Pro with independent volume AND tone controls would be my perfect amp ... but all that is definitely not what you asked for so I'll stop my OT rambling ...
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If it ain't broke you just haven't fixed it enough ...
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isaacullah
818 posts
Mar 11, 2010
10:01 AM
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The Bugera does not sound very good with harp. At least not the one I tried in the store. You just can't get enough volume. A stock Valve Jr will sound good for both guitar and harmonica, and will be plenty loud for both.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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Joe_L
75 posts
Mar 11, 2010
11:48 AM
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I've tried the Bassman pedal. I didn't like it. I found the sound of it to be muddy. It also made the amp I was using it with feedback like crazy.
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waltertore
259 posts
Mar 11, 2010
12:16 PM
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I love my princeton reverb RI amp. I use it for guitar and its reputation needs no elaborating on my part other to say it is a killer. Every now and then I dabble with running a shure 57 through it to see if the amped harp thing is of any interest. This song also was a dabble in overdubbing, another thing I rarely do. Having not played amped harp in almost 30 years, I am no master by any means, but this song may give you some help with choosing an amp. I maxed the bass and cut the treble to like 3-4 if I remember right, and the reverb was around 4. It has the guitar and harp both through the princeton reverb amp at seperate times. I overdubbed the harp after playing the guitar first, and then playing the drums with my hands and feet in a normal kit set up. This was my first time playing drums this way. If I could live another life, I would love to be a real drummer. Walter
guitar and harp through a princeton reverb amp
one more guitar and harp through a princeton reverb amp
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2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
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Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2010 1:33 PM
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MrVerylongusername
961 posts
Mar 11, 2010
12:23 PM
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A pedal like the Bassman emulator is only going to sound good if you put it through a clean, neutral amp like a keyboard amp (which is essentially a PA in a combo form) otherwise you are just putting in a signal which is modelling an amp's tonal characteristics and then adding a second set of tone characteristics from your own amp.
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isaacullah
819 posts
Mar 11, 2010
12:51 PM
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My setup now includes a Digitech RP155($90), and I use a little passive mixer (that I built myself) to put both guitar and harp into it at the same time. I can use the amp models to get a tone that sounds good for both, or I can switch between two patches (with the footswitches) when I switch between guitar and harp. I'm playing very simple slide rhythms on my two string cigar box guitar with a piezo pickup. I have an old solid state 20 watt PA amp (realistic brand, sold by radioshack) that I built into a small cabinet with an 8" speaker. I've found two of these old realistic brand PA's at different times at different Goodwills. I paid $8 for one and $10 for the other. When I use these little PA amps, I keep 'em pretty clean, and use the digitech to get all the color on the sound. Now I also have my Valve Jr head(I got it used for $70) which has bitchin tone on it's own, so I'm re0making my RP155 patches to be just the effects and no amp models so i can keep the Vjr's cool tone.
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Mar 11, 2010 12:52 PM
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Rikus
17 posts
Mar 11, 2010
11:54 PM
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Thanks for all the info guys!
If I can find a used valve jr somewhere I will be overjoyed, but in the meantime I'll try and organise some time with the little Cub8 to see how it sounds.
R.
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5F6H
7 posts
Mar 12, 2010
2:00 AM
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"A pedal like the Bassman emulator is only going to sound good if you put it through a clean, neutral amp like a keyboard amp (which is essentially a PA in a combo form) otherwise you are just putting in a signal which is modelling an amp's tonal characteristics and then adding a second set of tone characteristics from your own amp." Not really, the bassman pedal is designed to go into a typical tube amp, you may want a regular tube output section to give the dynamics & feel of a Bassman (not that I'm saying the pedal does what it says on the tin, it didn't in my case)...a PA or SS keyboard amp won't do this easily. The gain control on the 59 bassman pedal can be set so that drive is comparable to plugging straight into the amp.
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MrVerylongusername
963 posts
Mar 12, 2010
2:15 AM
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Interesting - thanks for the correction. I was basing my comment on experience of other modelling units like the Pod and Vamp. I struggle to understand though how it could still sound like a bassman once you've run the signal through a different amp?
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5F6H
8 posts
Mar 12, 2010
2:53 AM
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"I struggle to understand though how it could still sound like a bassman once you've run the signal through a different amp?" Ha, I'm struggling to see how it sounds like a bassman full stop!:-) Seriously though, a feature of the tweed amps (as opposed to the tolex Fenders) is a little more crunch from the cathode follower driven tone circuit (also a feature of classic marshalls) and a generally more mid-heavy voicing (even with the mids dialled out). If the pedal can bring these attributes a to a more "middle of the road", scooped mid, sounding amp, then I guess it is doing its job. If the amp used, already has these attributes, then there's not much point in using the pedal, unless you want more of the same with extra drive & additional EQ. Once you get past the preamp circuit, most 6L6 powered amps aren't really that different from the '59 bassman template (long tail phase inverter, choke between main B+ & the screen supply, etc...).
I'm also not sure how sticking a pedal in front of a locked down, fixed baffle board amp (like most amps designed after '59) can recreate the dynamics of a mahogany ply, floating baffle..let alone the rest of the circuit.
If I was a cynic, I'd suggest that the 59 Bassman pedal was simply designed to relieve non-bassman owners of £100! ;-) However, that doesn't mean that folks might not find it useful as a pedal in it's own right...as long as they are not expecting miracles.
Last Edited by on Mar 12, 2010 2:54 AM
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Geezer With Harp
3 posts
May 17, 2011
1:12 PM
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I recently bought a Bugera V5. I had a 60's Silvertone 12AX7 that I threw in for starters. BTY, I'm playing through a Superlux D112 that I absolutely love. I'm waiting for a JJ EL84 to see what that does for/to it. I'm a three year player doing small venue gigs as part of a duo - mostly deck bars and restaurants. Here are my amp settings - Volume; varies upon situation - Gain; 10 - Tone; 8 - Reverb; 2. I go through a ModTone analog delay with varying settings.
The Booger is one of the newer models. It appears very solidly built. The speaker is built for 30 watts and, the more I play through the amp, the better it sounds. I especially like the headphone jack. So far, I cannot find anything to complain about. It appears that Bugera is linked with Behringer. I believe their products are built in separate factories. If there are quality problems I haven't found them yet. IMHO, for $165.00 (I bought used from Guitar Center) this is the best 5 watt amp out there. Unless you are playing to a really boisterous, large bar crowd I cannot envision needing more than 5 watts. If quality becomes a problem (breakdowns, etc.) I will post them here.
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colman
49 posts
May 17, 2011
4:40 PM
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here`s a way ,set it for your best harp sound and when you want to do guitar through it hook up a tube screamer to it, i`ve done it with a champ and it works...
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jbone
528 posts
May 18, 2011
3:40 AM
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check out vids of Bobby Mercy Oliver. i've seen him live, guitar and harp through one amp- a fender- with a green bullet taped onto a harp rack, and he makes it work very well indeed. some of the best harp tone i've seen with a rack.
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rbeetsme
418 posts
May 18, 2011
8:28 AM
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Everyone is talking pedals, but what you might want is an amp that has 2 separate channels, with separate tone and volume controls. My Danelectro works well for both, I simply dial in each cahnnel. A lot of good vintage tube amps have this.
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Hondo
142 posts
May 18, 2011
8:40 AM
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Would this help?
Multiple channels,volumes, EQ's, and effects that can be brought into just one channel. So you could have a delay on the channel with the harp mic. Comments?
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee376/Hondo17/Music%20gear/mixer1.jpg
Last Edited by on May 18, 2011 8:41 AM
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apskarp
467 posts
May 19, 2011
4:24 AM
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I have a 7w custom tube amp for harp that has really good tone, but nowadays I think that it might be a better use of money to just buy some transistor harp with some effects. You could use an amp with two separate channels like rbeetsme said. Or then some ok sounding amp and pedal to switch the sound with the instrument. Or then you could buy an amp that has in-built effects. I once tried a small Vox amp that could operate on batteries. It had pretty good sound after playing with the effects.. And you could use that with harp or guitar - and it had separate XLR input for vocals to use at the same time.. And the price was only something like 120 euros new.
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bluzmn
22 posts
May 19, 2011
5:31 AM
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With a small 1 channel amp, as I assume the Laney Cub8 is, you will always have to make a compromise between your guitar tone and harp tone, unless you are only playing one at a time and you don't mind changing your settings each time you switch.
With an amp that has two separate channels (such as any black or silver face Fender larger than a Princeton), you would be able to have separate tone settings for each instrument.
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swampboy
44 posts
May 20, 2011
10:36 AM
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As 56FH suggested, I use a tolex Fender - '63 Vibroverb. Two separate channels with their own volume, tone and preamp valves.
But if you're looking for a small (non-gigging)amp, what about the VHT Special 6? The harp and guitar tones are both good, it has a Hi/Lo inputs and a Boost switch which could give the guitar more gain. You may have to tweak the tone between instruments, but that's ok if it's not a gig.
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