Komuso
793 posts
Nov 01, 2018
6:44 PM
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Bluesman Chris Thomas King Says He’s Been Banned By The GRAMMYs
Judge the album for yourself
It's quite range of styles, from hard rock to texas blues to New Orlean's style + more. Definitely not "straight" blues, but there's more than a few contemporary blues artists that have pushed genre boundaries.
Much as I like some of The Stone's music, I couldn't listen to more than a couple of seconds of Jaggers harmonica screeching on last years album. I'd rather listen to Dylan play harp.
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Learn Harmonica Faster
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Last Edited by Komuso on Nov 01, 2018 6:48 PM
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groyster1
3272 posts
Nov 02, 2018
6:59 AM
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jagger is far better than dylan on harp.....dylans playing is sloppy as can be
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DanP
403 posts
Nov 02, 2018
8:20 AM
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I may be in the minority opinion here but I have the Stones' Blue and Lonesome album and I like it. I understand Chris Thomas King's point and agree with some of it but I don't understand why he's considers it a racial thing. To say African Americans are ignored these days in the Blues Category is simply not true. Look at recent past winners. Edit: I edited this post to say that it's mostly whites keeping old school blues music alive (i.e. 1950s and early 60s Chicago blues), not blues music- it has always evolved. The Stones album is an homage to the black blues musicians of the 1950s that influenced them and rock and roll. A commercial one, yes, but it is a blues album. While I don't think the Grammys are biased racially, I do think they are biased commercially. It's that way in every music category. It has long become too much of a popularity contest and that's why I rarely watch the Grammys anymore. I do check on the web who wins in the blues and jazz categories but I don't think those awards are even telecast anymore.
Last Edited by DanP on Nov 02, 2018 7:39 PM
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Komuso
794 posts
Nov 02, 2018
8:33 AM
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They're both pretty bad (compared to top shelf specialist harp players), but at least Dylan's is his own "style". Jagger should be a lot better considering how long he's been playing...especially blues. It works "ok" in the context of what it is, but considering the calibre of the other musicianship going on you'd expect the harp should be at the same level. That's all I'm saying.
That to me is why Dylan is "better". or maybe betterer.
Bruce Willis can play, why can't Mick?
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Learn Harmonica Faster
Komuso's Music Website
Last Edited by Komuso on Nov 02, 2018 8:37 AM
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nacoran
9990 posts
Nov 02, 2018
10:33 AM
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I agree with some of King's points but at the same time award shows are about music genres. I may not particularly like the Stones last album but it is blues. I'd argue that so was King's. Obviously the Stones have a bigger following so that gives them a leg up in this situation. I'd have to give them another listen to see if I'd call their last album minstrelish. I do think Jagger can over emote vocally which could come off that way if you listened to him doing it in a vacuum, but he does that every song he does, not just blues stuff. It's like calling William Shatner out for taking long pauses between words if he was doing a reading as someone who took long pauses between words.
I think it's a little inflammatory to say he was banned from the Grammys... his work was not considered in the blues category. He could have asked to be considered in other categories. The question sort of comes down to whether the Grammys are an organization that gives out awards based on a characterization of the sound of the music or on the cultural history of the music. I think some of his stuff is blues, but I've got one of his albums (autographed in fact) and it's certainly got blues roots, but it's also not purely traditional. I would still call it blues though.
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Nate
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The Iceman
3698 posts
Nov 03, 2018
1:35 AM
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When the Grammys, as an entity, are so corporate - big business - I believe they are one step removed from total artistic sensibility. It's like Lester Bangs lamenting about Rolling Stone Magazine.
The whole thing, to me , is too "Hollywood". Perhaps most "citizens" feel it is the real deal, but I sure don't.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Nov 03, 2018 1:36 AM
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Thievin' Heathen
1074 posts
Nov 09, 2018
7:50 PM
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I can find no fault in Bob Dylan's harp playing. He is writing and while playing some very fine acoustic guitar he simultaneously adds some harp which serves the song. There is just something about rack harp players that makes me feel like I'm getting a personal insight on their creative thought process. It's like I'm looking over Rembrandt's shoulder. Maybe I'm weird. As for Mick Jagger(?), he's a front man playing harp fairly well. No fault there either.
Now, there are a few people out there playing harp badly, but seem to be presenting it as equal to good harp playing. Something akin to all kazoo players being equal, but I won't name names.
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ted burke
730 posts
Nov 11, 2018
10:43 AM
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I consider the Grammy nominators to be pretty out of touch with music categories. They created a heavy metal category in 1988 and gave the award to Jethro Tull. The controversy over the win was immediate, as fans, critics and even Ian Anderson, Tull's founding and leader, don't consider JT anyway near resembling a metal band. What this reveals is that the Grammy folks are hasty, lazy and in many ways ignorant about the music they are making nominations for.
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www.ted-burke.com
Last Edited by ted burke on Nov 11, 2018 10:44 AM
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ted burke
731 posts
Nov 11, 2018
10:48 AM
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As to Dylan's harmonica work, it works on a primordial level, in that it's visceral, untrained and assertive in ways that contradict logic. Dylan's music contradicts all arguments regarding what constitutes "good" musicianship. It is a force of its own, an anomaly.
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www.ted-burke.com
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groyster1
3274 posts
Nov 12, 2018
7:43 AM
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to me dylans harp playing is very sloppy......and love to hear mayall on harp but so many dissed his harp playing.....so you see fellow forum members.....its NOT all about you and your opinion even though you think it is
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ted burke
732 posts
Nov 12, 2018
1:29 PM
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Dylan is someone I would never hire as harp player if I were to put together a blues band because he plainly hasn't the chops or finesse for the kind of blues I'd want to play. What I like about his harmonica work is how it rather easily and effectively ignores technical limitations and establishes itself as an essential element of Dylan's music, especially his music up to Blood on the Tracks. One thing for sure is that Dylan is not randomly making noise; he knows where his harmonica needs to be in the songs and the solos and has mastered his rudimentary approach to phrasing, tone, chords and such that his harmonica has a power that must be acknowledged. His breaks on songs like "I Want You" and "Memphis Blues Again" are wonderfully rustic, flailing, pure bucolic energy made Times Square bluster. Especially brilliant, if accidently so, are his harmonica breaks on "Desolation Row" m are nothing less than electrifying to me; their energy, their brackish chords and throttled bends and long , meditative exhalations on blow notes have an atonal intensity that makes me think of the Coltrane/Sanders free jazz improvisational improvisations in free jazz. But lets not belabor that unusual comparison, since what I'm talking here is the effect a performance has on the listener, not the specific technique. Dylan performs a nascent brand of skronk harmonica, technically wanting for the blues fan who desires more Little Walteroid stylizations, but absolutely perfect for the genius singularity peak-era Dylan was.
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www.ted-burke.com
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Gnarly
2570 posts
Nov 12, 2018
6:34 PM
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That pretty much nails it Ted.
And yes, the Grammys are what they appear to be--commercial. The Stones fit right in--pop music, right?
Life is short, art is long, harmonica is inspiration.
Oh, and I don't seem to be a blues harmonica player--ask Ted LOL
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jbone
2737 posts
Nov 12, 2018
7:52 PM
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On topic, what I've heard of C T King is not what I'd call blues whatever he says it is.
Off topic, Bob Dylan learned to do the OPPOSITE of the blues harp guys so he would not be seen as trying to cop their licks. His work on harp is INTENTIONALLY opposite of what blues nerds treasure. I've tried my damnedest to duplicate some of his harp parts and it's not what it seems. There is a complexity in the assumed simple hokieness of it that has mostly escaped me.
Ironic though, I have worked out some pretty good parts on some of his songs and we do them regularly, to our and our patrons enjoyment.
You take either artist for what they are and what they've done. I don't know what King thinks about peoples' reaction to his work but it seems to me he's more hung up on recognition than simple quality music making. Dylan does not appear to care. He's always wanted to "be a song and dance man" and he IS one. He makes no excuses and needs none.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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ted burke
733 posts
Nov 12, 2018
9:30 PM
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gNARLY plays some very fine and tuneful harmonica. He is player regardless of what style he happens to investigating.
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www.ted-burke.com
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Gnarly
2571 posts
Nov 12, 2018
9:48 PM
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Thanks Ted.
I'm playing mostly chromatic these days, it's easier than bringing 40 harps with me.
Not quite the same, but certainly easier.
Not on topic either LOL
Don't count on the Grammys to keep the blues alive, they will be happy to capitalize on its popularity tho.
Certainly the blues will be with us forever, at least as long as popular music of the 20th Century is honored.
We (I am 66) are lucky to have been alive when the music was so good.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Nov 12, 2018 9:51 PM
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