Header Graphic
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > How to start
How to start
Login  |  Register
Page: 1

johan d
113 posts
Aug 23, 2018
8:40 AM
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xyTPuFtBJBU7cMbKA

Hello, How does one start to analyze on what harp you should play something? This one is the key of in G, but should I play 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or...?

Last Edited by johan d on Aug 23, 2018 8:41 AM
The Iceman
3652 posts
Aug 23, 2018
8:53 AM
At this point, you have to make that decision yourself based on what notes are available and the "sound" of playing in each position.

Sometimes you can play using any one of 1st, 2nd and 3rd...each position offers advantages and disadvantages.

Are you fluent in 1'st, 2nd and 3rd already? If not, start there.
----------
The Iceman
Martin
1495 posts
Aug 23, 2018
9:31 AM
You could check out recorded versions and see what you like. "Will the circle" has been recorded by Willie Nelson with Mickey Raphael on harp, and if you think his approach is interesting and analyze that (it´s in second, I can tell you like almost all of MR´s stuff) there´s a starting point.
As for me I don´t like to lock me up in 2nd position, ´cause after a while a lot of things can start to sound the same.
johan d
114 posts
Aug 23, 2018
10:43 AM
No I am not fluent in all those positions. What do you mean by fluent? Do you know where all the notes lie on those first 3 positions? What if we throw in another harp, let's say one in the key of G. All those notes lie in a different position here. How can one remember all those?
Or am I approaching this the wrong way? Im a not supposed to learn a song from a paper?
Littoral
1631 posts
Aug 23, 2018
11:30 AM
"Im a not supposed to learn a song from a paper?"
I'd say no, but I come from an alley.
Use a c harp to play it in g. That's 2nd position. Just get happy with it for a while -the right key with the right harp. Some success is good.
Next, figure out how to play single notes by messing with basic melodies (nursery rhymes, Christmas carols....)

Last Edited by Littoral on Aug 23, 2018 11:44 AM
The Iceman
3653 posts
Aug 23, 2018
11:39 AM
Fluent in all those positions means that you can play them, understanding that they are the positions that they are.

You don't have to know the names of the notes.

No matter which diatonic richter tuned harmonica you use, the relationships of the notes to each other remain the same even if the notes themselves differ depending on the key of the harmonica.

Sounds to me like you need a bit more basic understanding and experience on the harmonica and position playing.

This forum is a good resource to help you along.


----------
The Iceman
hvyj
3619 posts
Aug 23, 2018
1:40 PM
It's like this: Each of the 7 most commonly used positions relates to a particular mode. If you are playing in that position, you are not necessarily playing in the related mode, but all of the notes of that mode are available without having to bend. Each mode has a different configuration of sharps and flats. For example, 1st position (Ionian mode) generates a scale that has no sharps or flats; 2d position (mixolydian mode) has a b7; 3d position (dorian mode) has 3b & b7); 4th position (aeolian mode) has b3, b6 & b7; 5th position (phrygian mode) has b2,b3,b6 & b7; etc.

So...to chose what harp to use in which position you select the mode that gives you most of the notes you need to play a particular tune and select the harp that corresponds to that mode. Then you also have additional notes available that you can bend for.

Rather than remember note names, since all keys of diatonic Richter tuned harps are laid out the same, you just need to remember which hole is what degree of the scale in each position. For example, 6 draw is the 6th degree of the scale in 1st position, 2d/9th degree in 2d position, 5th degree in 3d position, 1st degree/root in 4th position, 4th degree in 5th position, etc. Obviously, it helps to know your scales and how to play them.

Anyway, that's how I choose what harp to play on which tune. Works well for me. FWIW.

Also, if you are working with formally trained musicians modes are often used as a shorthand method of communication. If a musician calls a tune and key and says it's mixolydian, you know the tune has a dominant 7th, so 2d position is likely to work. If he says it's dorian, you know you have a minor key with a major IV chord and 3d position should work. Modes are diatonic scales. Blues harp is a diatonic instrument. So, a working knowledge of modes is really useful.

Playing in different positions is nothing more than playing the harp in different keys which is something that musicians who play other instruments do all the time. It's not hard at all. So many instruction books claim that positions above third are "advanced" which is bullshit. You just need to know what scales are available and how to play them. What throws players off is that there are few chords available in positions above third. Also, one cannot bend randomly or you will throw yourself out of key. So, if you wank on chords a lot or routinely do the choo-choo train thing or tend to bend any note just because it is capable of being bent, it ain't going to work.

To get an idea of how this all fits together, take a look at the tab on my user page. That tab lays out 3 breath patterns. Learn those and you will automatically be able to play 6 scales and 6 different positions. Not very complicated.

Last Edited by hvyj on Aug 23, 2018 2:29 PM
SuperBee
5564 posts
Aug 23, 2018
2:32 PM
I usually start by trying 2nd position unless there is something obvious that tells me I need to approach it differently.

If You’re ‘making it up’ you can play it how you like, for better or worse.

If you are trying to copy, there will be a few clues which you will learn to recognise

If you are trying to play a melody as written it will be about the way the notes required ‘lay out’ on the harp.

I’m a fairly rudimentary player and I reckon id approach ‘will the circle be unbroken’ as a major pentatonic exercise but I’ve never tried to play it along with anyone or anything except my own memory of how it sounds. First two bars of your (guitar) sheet looks like B C D D, (G chord strum) E G B B
So my major pentatonic angle is already sunk by that C but never mind, on a C Harp you can find those notes quite easily 3 +4 4 4, (2,3) +5 +6 7 7

Scanning through it, looks like a F# G A (will you join)

That F# is only available in a few places on the C harp. A 2 draw half step would do it, and in this passage you could play 2’ 2 3

Otherwise it’s a 5 overblow for +5* +6 6 or a 9 blow bend for +9’ +9 10

If you don’t like any of those options, you could try a G harp in 1st position. That will give up the F# without bending but the notes will layout differently and you may or may not find that good. A lot of the time it’s the possibilities of bending particular notes which make a position attractive.
Another possibility is to use a country-tuned C harp, which would give you that F# in draw 5, so you could still approach the tune in 2nd.
timeistight
2264 posts
Aug 23, 2018
10:50 PM
"Words and music by Eddy Arnold"

WTF?
DanP
392 posts
Aug 23, 2018
11:54 PM
It is not required that you know what each tone is on a diatonic harmonica because the intervals are the same for every key and you can change keys simply by changing harps. But it will help in the long run if you do. It will help you communicate with other musicians that don't play harmonica and you can transpose music from other instruments, i.e. piano, guitar, to harmonica and vice versa. You will definitely need to know which notes are which for the chromatic harmonica if you're going to play in anything other than 1st position major scale or the 3rd position Dorian mode ( I'm having that problem now trying to learn the chrom ).You don't have to read a whole library of books on music theory but learning as much theory as you can starting with the circle of fifths can't hurt and will be useful on down the line.

Last Edited by DanP on Aug 24, 2018 2:02 AM


Post a Message



(8192 Characters Left)


Modern Blues Harmonica supports

§The Jazz Foundation of America

and

§The Innocence Project

 

 

 

ADAM GUSSOW is an official endorser for HOHNER HARMONICAS