JInx
1380 posts
Jul 21, 2018
1:23 PM
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I think some of us are truly tone deaf, or maybe just to lazy to really listen.
Sometimes i can play for over an hour and not realize my tune is not up
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Last Edited by JInx on Jul 21, 2018 2:08 PM
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T-bay
4 posts
Jul 21, 2018
1:57 PM
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I am lucky that a friend is a superb musician and vocal coach. We have had many discussions regarding ‘ears’. Perfect pitch is very rare, quite a few claim it but few achieve in real situations. Relative pitch is more common and what my friend has (he amazes me as whilst he says he relates to a known note I am still constantly amazed when he is spot on deciphering bass lines first time that have defeated my efforts for days). He also says that being completely tone deaf is rare and that the vast majority can be trained to achieve relative pitch. He also adds another level he calls relative pitch, whereby you can tell roughly where a note is relative to,others but may be out by a semitone or so. I have put a lot of time in but am still not where I want to be, especially on my backing vocals for the band. No one seems to notice but I know it’s not quite there.
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Mirco
605 posts
Jul 21, 2018
7:38 PM
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The most embarrassing situations I have been in is when I've been playing a song with the wrong key harp, obliviously, until a musician from the audience kindly points it out to me during someone else's solo.
It's happened twice to me. Both times it's because I rearranged harmonicas in my case and grabbed the wrong one by accident. It's not an excuse, but in one of those cases, the song was in Am, and I was playing in 3rd position, so the song felt weird to me for a long time (because 3rd and minor were both relatively new at the time).
Lesson: even if I should be able to hear when I'm in the wrong key, I can still get in the habit of checking what letter is stamped on my harmonica before every song.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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jason campbell
111 posts
Jul 22, 2018
7:13 AM
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My mother was a singer/pianist with perfect pitch, but it certainly isn't hereditary. I always said I have terrible ears.
But I do find, as T-bay said, that I am improving, the more I listen and the more I play.
I used to have no clue what key a song is in when i first heard it. So before I look for chords to the song, I will try to guess at the key. I find that as I listen more, I am getting better at guessing the key. And I have less of the "playing the wrong key" at jams happening, I can hear when I screw up sooner.
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The Iceman
3633 posts
Jul 22, 2018
8:19 AM
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What happened to Micro is indeed embarrassing, but unnecessary when one learns to play AND listen AT THE SAME TIME....and that means not only listening to what one plays, but also listening to the surrounding music as well.
Too often folk are so "in their own heads" regarding (IMO) confidence issues that they put all their attention to the "licks" and "patterns" that they try to memorize and none on "the moment" and actually hearing what is occurring!
It isn't that hard to hear how awful something like the wrong key harmonica sounds in a band situation if one calms the "noise" in ones brain and allows the ears to open up and really listen.
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The Iceman
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jbone
2639 posts
Jul 22, 2018
9:45 AM
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One of the best tools I ever developed was to be able to pick out what key the band was in. I'm not 100% even now, so I may have to try a harp or two off mic to be certain, which is fine if someone else is leading; if I'm leading I always call the key so that's a shoo-in
Really a saving grace to a point is, knowing both 2nd and 3rd positions, there have been times I've thought I was going into 2nd and it turned out I needed to be in 3rd, and somehow it worked out right.
A couple of years ago I wrote lyrics for a song, showed Jolene what I was looking for- sang a verse or two and blew some harp- and she worked out the guitar part. Amazingly when we began working on it together, I discovered that she was modulating the key! One part of the harp lead is in 2nd on a G harp while the other part of the lead in is 3rd on a G! So she is modulating the guitar chords between D and G I think. When I realized what was going on I was thrilled. Not often you can use one harp for 2 positions in the same song! Point being my ear saved me on this one.
I do sometimes grab a wrong key harp on a song but usually I recover quickly.
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Reverbnation
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jbone
2640 posts
Jul 22, 2018
9:45 AM
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One of the best tools I ever developed was to be able to pick out what key the band was in. I'm not 100% even now, so I may have to try a harp or two off mic to be certain, which is fine if someone else is leading; if I'm leading I always call the key so that's a shoo-in
Really a saving grace to a point is, knowing both 2nd and 3rd positions, there have been times I've thought I was going into 2nd and it turned out I needed to be in 3rd, and somehow it worked out right.
A couple of years ago I wrote lyrics for a song, showed Jolene what I was looking for- sang a verse or two and blew some harp- and she worked out the guitar part. Amazingly when we began working on it together, I discovered that she was modulating the key! One part of the harp lead is in 2nd on a G harp while the other part of the lead in is 3rd on a G! So she is modulating the guitar chords between D and G I think. When I realized what was going on I was thrilled. Not often you can use one harp for 2 positions in the same song! Point being my ear saved me on this one.
I do sometimes grab a wrong key harp on a song but usually I recover quickly.
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Reverbnation
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jbone
2641 posts
Jul 22, 2018
9:46 AM
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One of the best tools I ever developed was to be able to pick out what key the band was in. I'm not 100% even now, so I may have to try a harp or two off mic to be certain, which is fine if someone else is leading; if I'm leading I always call the key so that's a shoo-in
Really a saving grace to a point is, knowing both 2nd and 3rd positions, there have been times I've thought I was going into 2nd and it turned out I needed to be in 3rd, and somehow it worked out right.
A couple of years ago I wrote lyrics for a song, showed Jolene what I was looking for- sang a verse or two and blew some harp- and she worked out the guitar part. Amazingly when we began working on it together, I discovered that she was modulating the key! One part of the harp lead is in 2nd on a G harp while the other part of the lead in is 3rd on a G! So she is modulating the guitar chords between D and G I think. When I realized what was going on I was thrilled. Not often you can use one harp for 2 positions in the same song! Point being my ear saved me on this one.
I do sometimes grab a wrong key harp on a song but usually I recover quickly.
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Reverbnation
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nacoran
9913 posts
Jul 22, 2018
4:18 PM
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On stage it can be tough. That's why a good sound guy is important. I've had a couple times where I couldn't hear myself at all and just sort of had to hope for the best and hope my muscle memory could figure something out and that whoever I asked for the key knew what they were doing.
I wonder... I know there are apps that can tell you with pretty good accuracy what key you are in... it would be kind of cool if someone could build that into an LED display on monitor speakers! (Maybe on a modeling amp where there might already be an advantage to having a display).
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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T-bay
5 posts
Jul 23, 2018
1:07 AM
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That is a horrible situation to be in. Non musicians have no idea of the importance of monitoring. I have had conversations along the lines of ‘why do you need to hear yourself you are playing’. I have had a couple of occasions with our band where we have been on multi band line ups and using a shared backline where you just can’t here a thing. It’s an awful place to be. As a bass player I can revert to purely locking in with the drummer and hope that works enough for the others to sit on top. I particularly remember playing Johnny B Goode with nomidea of what the others were playing as it was just a horrible mush on stage. Needless to say we didn’t rush back to play there again!
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Andrew
1801 posts
Jul 23, 2018
8:40 AM
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I've only ever met one person who was truly tone deaf, but it may be that when people learn they are, they don't try to sing any more, and so it's less obvious how many there are.
Apart from that, I don't think this thread is really about tone-deafness, is it!
Looking at Youtube, I haven't found one single example of a tone-deaf singer - there are lots of bad singers, but that's not the same thing.
All you have to do is listen to the riffing - they may sing a note and go up then go down, then repeat, note-up-down. It may be out of tune, but they're not tone-deaf.
Someone who is tone deaf will sometimes sing a higher "note" when it should be lower and sometimes sing a lower "note" when it should be higher. Basically, every "note" is random. I put "note" in speech marks because it will sound like Marlee Matlin, and as though the person were in fact deaf.
Last Edited by Andrew on Jul 23, 2018 9:04 AM
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The Iceman
3635 posts
Jul 23, 2018
11:32 AM
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"The harmonica community spends too much time and energy hand wringing about whether harmonica is a real instrument for "serious musicians" or (heaven forbid!) a toy."
Even folk who have dug in and really insist that the diatonic is not a real instrument will change their tune if presented with evidence compelling enough to make them change their mind.
My personal experience in this realm happened at the Hohner International Harmonica Competition in Trossingen - around 1997 or so (can't remember the exact year). Larry Adler was one of the guests of honor. It was well known that he had absolutely no respect for what he called "The short harp".
Well, after my competition piece, he came up to me, shook my hand, looked me in the eye and said "I usually don't like that short harp, but I really enjoyed the sound you got from it today". Harmonica players surrounding us almost passed out in disbelief, as this was apparently the first time he ever complimented anyone on that instrument. Keep in mind, however, that I never played the diatonic "harmonicky" style, but instead competed with a melodic linear concept and rich warm tone.
So, even the most die hard skeptics may change their tune when confronted with undeniable evidence of the "short harp's" musicality. It's up to some of us to be ambassadors and spread the good word.
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The Iceman
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Littoral
1621 posts
Jul 23, 2018
1:22 PM
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...hmmm...?
On another "note", if I am off by a 5th then it might take a few bars to figure it out.
Never mind, now I'm distracted by the song that's in there...
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