SuperBee
5477 posts
Jul 11, 2018
3:17 PM
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Last couple band rehearsals I’ve used my Harp Attack pedal straight into the PA. Seems to go ok.
Usually I’ve used a small amp at these sessions. A 5 watt thing can be adequate but sometimes it gets a bit too loud in there to get the best from a small amp. I used a Princeton Reverb a couple of times and that had plenty.
I used the Harp Attack with my mic in, and the output running to my regular pedal board, then the board to PA.
Last night I noticed I had to keep creeping the PA volume up as the band was clearly rising. When I tried to manage this using the volume control on the pedal, after a point it became ‘nasty’. Much better to have the amp up and operate the pedal controls in a 9 o’clock - 3 o’clock ish range.
The thing seemed to play well with my Reverb pedal, and ok with delay. I have an LW Harp Octave pedal on the board which I briefly tested and quickly ruled out. Far too harsh with the Harp Attack.
For general use I think this pedal is pretty good. There were a few times I thought it lacked the cut through power I get with a tube amp but when I had the PA volume up I found the sound very acceptable.
I have 2 small concerns.
It’s an 18 volt pedal and my board is 12 and 9. So I need a separate power supply for the pedal. Currently I’m using batteries and I don’t know what the life expectancy is for those. So if I use it on a gig I’ll just install new batteries. Once I’ve worn out a pair of batteries in the rehearsal room I’ll have some idea of drain rate.
The other concern is just dependence on access to PA volume controls for monitoring. Some rooms we play provide PA but the board is sometimes not where I can reach it and soundcheck opportunities are often limited.
Other times we provide PA but I’m reliant on some pretty small monitors and I can see I’ll probably have to buy my own wedge if I’m gonna use this a lot. If I have to do that I may as well carry an amp as the main reason to use the pedal is to lighten the load.
For rehearsals though I think it’s a winner. And probably will be ok for those venues with decent PA
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jul 11, 2018 3:18 PM
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Prento
43 posts
Jul 11, 2018
4:01 PM
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HI Super,
Thanks for this thread. I think you are correct in that volume has to come from the pa. The pedal only provides the colour/tone into the pa and driving the pedal hard makes for a harsh sound. There is more than enough gain in the pedal, probably too much. The real trick for good sound is not feeding the pa too much gain or signal (less is more here) and the eq settings on the pa, those lower mids, 240-250hz need to be pushed. They bring out the real bark. You will never get that lovely organic valve sound like from a good amp but it can get close enough for the punters. The real difference is the feel and response, it seems stiffer and not as soft. I have not used it with any kind of delay or reverb, only the effects on the desk which sound ok when used sparingly.
Don't let your guitarist use it as an overdrive or you won't get it back. A number of years ago I bought the rocket 88 pedal for guitar, essentially the same pedal but with more gain. I liked the HA better so I sent the rocket88 back and got Randy to change it to HA specs, probably only had to change a couple of resistors.
I think when set properly these pedals are great and probably the closest way of getting a valve amp sound.
In front of an amp, having the tone and drive all the way down and using the pedal volume lightly can also thicken the tone of the amp and help a little with feed back.
Last Edited by Prento on Jul 11, 2018 4:03 PM
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Littoral
1617 posts
Jul 12, 2018
10:57 AM
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As to the Octave, I agree with the harshness issue but using it may solve your volume problem. I use the volume on it almost exclusively as pre-amp because the level gets along really well with other pedals and the PA -but I almost never use the effect. I don't have the HA but I did just start using a Harp Break and the level on it I don't typically adjust for volume -it changes the tone too much, Octave doesn't.
I use two delays, LW1 and a Carbon Copy -love having both of them. The only other thing I use is a EP Exotic Boost (DI and Power Brick for the various voltages). I did resort to a Yamaha monitor for myself and lining out to the rest of the PA makes it easy. DBR12.
Try the Octave as a volume control.
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AppalachiaBlues
191 posts
Jul 12, 2018
12:48 PM
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Would adding a LW Harp Tone pedal provide the local volume control, with the added benefit of the bass boost?
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Prento
44 posts
Jul 12, 2018
9:57 PM
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I think adding a harp tone pedal to the HA would only add to the colour of the tone. If you push the HT volume too much you end up in feedback land. Anything that is plugged into the pa is pushing the preamp of the pa, not the big volume. The power stage of the amp does the heavy lifting when it comes to volume.
Remember that less is more when it comes to signal into a preamp. Think about why harp players "tube down", i.e., put in a lower gain preamp valve/tube, when playing harp through a guitar amp. One of the reasons that old tube guitar amps worked well for harp was the lower gain of their preamps. The lovely tone came more from the power amp stage being pushed rather than preamp distortion. These days, most guitar amps are made for higher gain.
Last Edited by Prento on Jul 12, 2018 10:08 PM
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Littoral
1618 posts
Jul 13, 2018
6:24 AM
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Prento: "Anything that is plugged into the pa is pushing the preamp of the pa, not the big volume."
Yes, but the kinder and tubing down helps get to the threshold we look for. The Octave also has a really good capacity to limit feedback. I know I can run my board with it and get much louder than anyone would ever need to, without feedback. When I recently added a Harp Break to the chain, and relied on its vc, I experienced some feedback. It was easily managed and actually low end. I backed off the HB volume and added more with the Octave and didn't have any more trouble. Why...? hey Randy...???
Jus Sayin, since he has one, Super Bee should try the Octave as a volume control.
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Prento
45 posts
Jul 13, 2018
2:56 PM
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I will stand corrected Littoral. There is certainly some kind of sorcery happening with those harp octave pedals. I don't have one but have read numerous reports similar to yours about their feedback fighting abilities. Perhaps what I said was a generalization and a basic rule of thumb that doesn't take into account the those other devices.
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SuperBee
5483 posts
Jul 13, 2018
6:25 PM
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Yep, I used to use the octave with one particular amp and i did experience that effect.
I also have a tone plus on my board and I did momentarily consider using it in an attempt to boost volume but dismissed the thought before I could get near the switch.
This week I’ll try both those ideas.
We have a gig next Friday which may be suitable for the pedal. Low volume and a room with lots of natural reverb. I’m undecided whether to use it. Would be nice to not worry about an amp, but I don’t get to use my small amps in the wild much.
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Prento
46 posts
Jul 14, 2018
1:38 AM
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I enjoy playing through an amp much more, however I prefer carrying a pedal. It might be a good opportunity to test out the pedal. Take the small amp as well just in case.
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SuperBee
5494 posts
Jul 18, 2018
3:37 PM
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I tried the HA again last night. I could indeed get a volume boost from either/both harp octave and harp tone plus. I preferred the octave (with effect level far anti-clockwise).
The harp tone plus I would only use if I couldn’t adjust eq any other way. That pedal just seems to be a tone killer in some way. Takes the life out of everything but can be a saviour if the situation is really bad otherwise. It’s a last resort thing for me.
I liked the HA with LW Reverb
I also found out what happens when the batteries die in a Harp Attack; there is a gradual loss of volume. I was cranking the PA, and the Harp Attack and Harp Octave and I just couldn’t keep up. Eventually I had such low volume I realised I had a problem. When I switched the HA off, instant feedback! With the pedal in bypass the mic was straight innto PA and I’d been creeping the volume up.
At first I thought the band was just getting real loud.
I was packing new batteries of course. With fresh batteries I had heaps of volume and didn’t need any help from the Harp Octave.
The boost from HO was good though, just as you said Littoral.
I think I got about 10-12 hours from those energiser batteries.
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Prento
47 posts
Jul 20, 2018
4:39 PM
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How did the gig go with the HA?
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SuperBee
5499 posts
Jul 20, 2018
5:11 PM
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I bailed on the idea. I got to thinking about the monitor with vocals harp and guitar and decided it was gonna be too iffy. Turned out we only had 1 monitor wedge so probably a good call. I could barely hear my vocal in set 1 so that would’ve been terrible.
I used a Vibrochamp xd for the harp and was again impressed with it. The 8” speaker isn’t capable of the sort of fully rounded sound I’d get from the PA speaker but the amp is really ideal for a cafe gig like that one. The venue is in a floating pier building with a high, pitched ceiling and great natural acoustics. I was also impressed with the turnout on a very fresh winter evening on the waterfront. Beautiful climate control in that building and all the seats occupied, just a little dancing off to the side.
But the HA retained its virginity
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Prento
48 posts
Jul 20, 2018
6:07 PM
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Good call. I use the HA for a semi regular gig in which I play bass for most of. The venue (restaurant/bar) has its own pa and a tiny stage. The HA is quite convenient in most cases but by the end of the night things get a bit louder with the guitarist and The harp gets lost, and lately we have been having problems with the pa.
I have modified a legacy valve Jr combo by shoehorning in a 10" speaker and adding an octal socket. I have changed out the output transformer for, believe it or not, a halogen light transformer (see the Lamington Solo on Australian Guitar Gear Heads), you can pick them up for about $5 on fleabay. They suit a 6l6 valve with 8 ohm speaker really well. Obviously the bias etc needs to be changed but there is plenty on line for setting up the valve jr with 6l6 output.
So back to the point, I now have a small, very portable and great sounding amp for guitar or harp. If I put the HA into it with tone and drive off, it thickens the tone and gets me some volume before feedback but a Harp Tone or Harp Octave will probably do a better job so next gig it will be blooded.
The HA is still a handy tool though, especially for those small acoustic gigs where you want a bit of colour on the harp. It certainly makes practice a lot simpler.
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nacoran
9918 posts
Jul 24, 2018
6:10 PM
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Harp attack in PA. Chromatics attack Philadelphia. Diatonics seen gathering around Pittsburgh. Chord harps now in control of Harrisburg. Leaders Gussow and Yerxa say rebels could be in control of the whole state in a matter of days. Diggsblues said to make speech in violent Philadelphia streets.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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HarpNinja
4287 posts
Jul 27, 2018
8:37 AM
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Use a HarpBreak instead.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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SuperBee
5515 posts
Jul 27, 2018
3:04 PM
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Nate: funny!
HarpNinja: I can see one advantage of a harp break pedal. But beyond the convenience of it being a 9 volt device my prior experience with it didn’t impress.
It’s true that the time I attempted to use it in pa and found the feedback made it unusable was an extreme situation with a lunatic in charge of the PA. But in more sane tests I found I was not a fan of the particular quality of clip it delivered.
I’m not totally convinced by the harp attack in that way either but I think it rather better than my memory of the sound made by the HB
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Lily
2 posts
Jul 29, 2018
4:52 AM
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The drones circled as smoke rose from the ruins below. "Command, this is Blue Leader... target has been neutralized".
Last Edited by nacoran on Jul 29, 2018 11:13 AM
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dougharps
1798 posts
Jul 29, 2018
10:13 AM
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Spam "Lily"?
Shame on you!
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Doug S.
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nacoran
9923 posts
Jul 29, 2018
11:16 AM
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It says Lily has at least two posts. If anyone sees the second one, let me know and I'll zap it too.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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BaileyBlacklow
1 post
Oct 05, 2018
5:00 AM
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BaileyBlacklow is a smouldering heap of ashes. Another victim a drone strike.
Last Edited by nacoran on Oct 05, 2018 9:48 AM
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Kingley
4107 posts
Oct 08, 2018
10:21 AM
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I very rarely play amplified these days. When I do though it's nearly always a Harp Attack direct into the PA. Don't use any other effects in the chain. If I want reverb or delay I get it at the board. Never had any problems being heard using it. It's a great pedal and is one of the pieces of kit I'll never part with.
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