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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
1st Manji...disappointing!
1st Manji...disappointing!
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digitalshrub
61 posts
May 30, 2018
10:54 AM
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So many folks seem to rave about Manji (here and elsewhere), and I decided to pick one up so I'd have a backup harp in C. Normally, I play Seydel 1847 Silvers.
OOTB, the Manji has to be one of the most disappointing harps I've ever played. For starters, the machining on the comb is shoddy -- Hole 1 is noticeably smaller than all the other holes. Unless this is somehow intentional.
Draw 3 bends are leaky and "hollow" sounding compared to just about any other harp in my collection.
Could just be that I got a dud, or that many Manji aficionados are used to making setup adjustments to their harmonicas. I haven't delved much into gapping or otherwise adjusting harps, as my Seydels have been pretty much good to go OOTB.
Anyone have thoughts? I don't want to diss anybody's preferred harp model, and I know these things are vary quite a bit due to personal taste and ergonomics, but I can't for the life of me imagine dropping another 50 bucks on one of these when I could spend roughly twice that on a Seydel that sounds and feels great the moment it arrives on my doorstep.
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Gnarly
2496 posts
May 30, 2018
11:06 AM
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Ahem--one year warranty on all Suzuki products.
Call 800-854-1594, I'm at extension 4410.
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Mirco
588 posts
May 30, 2018
11:12 AM
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Sounds like you happened upon a bad one. It happens.
In general, I find the Manji to be the best OOTB harmonica you can buy. But the duds-- although uncommon-- are downright awful. The duds can be improved considerably with a little bit of work. Adjust the gapping. Look at the fit between the comb and the reed plates; you may need to do some sanding to get a better fit.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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Gnarly
2497 posts
May 30, 2018
11:29 AM
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Hey, that's my slogan--"You can always improve a harmonica."
But if you purchased from an authorized dealer here in the US, my JOB is to make sure you are happy with your purchase of a Suzuki.
$50 is a lot of money for you to spend and not to be happy.
Hole 1 is smaller? Are you sure?
Last Edited by Gnarly on May 30, 2018 11:30 AM
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Martin
1474 posts
May 30, 2018
12:02 PM
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For the price that is exacted for a Manji, it should not need any additional manouvres in order to make it acceptably playable.
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nacoran
9857 posts
May 30, 2018
12:52 PM
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The one hole is smaller than the others... is the two hole bigger? Maybe a tine is bent? Odd...
I've only played one Manji, and it had had some work done on it before I got it. It's a great harp. The comb color is kind of 'meh' but the corners on the cover are much better thought out than any Hohner. I don't know if the reed plate corners got any work before I got them, but they are much smoother than any Hohner I've played too. (On par with my Seydels).
Since it got a custom setup I can't comment on the OTB playing. With the work it's a great harp.
Contact Gnarly and I'm sure he'll get you all sorted out.
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Nate
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CarlA
940 posts
May 30, 2018
12:56 PM
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Got three and they were all horrendous. Could be a coincidence I guess.
My first Manji I bought based-off of all the positive reviews. I literally opened brand new case, performed a 2 draw and then a three draw. It was such a horrendous experience that I literally threw it directly into the garbage almost reflexively.
I posted my experience on this board shortly after and ended up giving the harp to harpninja I believe.
I bought two more and the G was just as terrible and leaky. The A harp literally went flat on the 5 draw after maybe 1 hour playtime.
Crossovers are generally great. Special 20 are good overall. I have had good success with marine bands.
My personal favorite harps are seydel blues session steels. I have an A harp that I use in the car. It’s subjected to extreme heat, I intentionally have been trying to blow as hard as I could and it just recently went flat on a couple reeds after almost 4 years of abusive use.
My personally opinion is that any $50 dollar plus harp should play nearly perfectly at that price point. Nobody buys a Porsche or Lamborghini only to have to first take it to the mechanic for extensive work BEFORE getting to enjoy its performance.
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Gnarly
2498 posts
May 30, 2018
1:29 PM
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nancoran wondered, "Is the 2 hole bigger?"
Bingo--that hole is bigger than the others.
We don't make them--I work for the American company that sells them.
Looks to me like the Japanese are doing this for a reason--any opinions?
I have a SP20 here at work (contraband!), tuned to Major Cross--I don't think the holes are different sized on that.
But this seems to be a design issue, not a defect.
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Gnarly
2499 posts
May 30, 2018
1:32 PM
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I just want to help folks who buy our harmonicas, since they are entitled to get their money's worth.
Try the Suzukis, if you don't like them, buy something else.
I put off playing chromatic for decades because I was afraid of being disappointed. My loss . . .
Last Edited by Gnarly on May 30, 2018 1:32 PM
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Cotton
99 posts
May 30, 2018
2:07 PM
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Gary,
I have a set of 8 Suzuki Olives. I one of those strange people that like things to match. 2 weeks ago received a new one in A from Ron. The color of the cover plate is a different shade of green than all my others. Much more blue than olive Green. Is this going to be a new color or is it just a one time factory manufacturing mistake ????
Last Edited by Cotton on May 30, 2018 8:39 PM
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dougharps
1760 posts
May 30, 2018
2:08 PM
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I have 4 Manjis and 2 Olives. I have also fit Manji reed plates onto Bluesmaster combs to build 2 semi-Manji harps. I saw no shoddy workmanship on my Manji reed plates or combs. I did not find it necessary to sand combs or draw plates.
As with all of my OOTB harps, I adjusted reed gaps to my preferences and loosened and re-tightened reed plate screws.
As I have noted previously, there is a bit different attack to be learned to smooth bending on the bottom draw notes on a Manji. Mooncat likened it to playing guitar with heavier strings.
I play a mix of Hohner, Suzuki, and Seydel Harps, with some Eastops being a recent addition to my Lee Oskar, Hering, and Delta Frost second string harps. They all have different playing characteristics, tonality, and durability, but I have learned to use them all and get what I want from them in different musical settings.
If your Manjis were purchased from an authorized US dealer and show obvious physical defects you should definitely send them to Gnarly for repair or replacement!!!
If they look OK but you find 2 and 3 hole bends more difficult, you may need to play them a bit to find the attack that works for those bends.
I have found variations in gaps in ALL the brands of harps that I use. When I receive a harp I routinely check gaps and adjust those reeds that are too widely gapped for my style. I have also sometimes found that reed plates were not snug or properly aligned with the comb on a couple harps, so I now loosen and tighten to set them up in the right way. It is not rocket science. Even my new Seydel 1847s needed some adjustments. I had many SP20s that were widely gapped.
Manjis are good harps. I like them when I play in loud settings, because they take abuse and don't go flat nearly as easily as a Crossover will. Crossovers are great for nuanced playing with light airflow, but you put them at risk in loud settings where you might accidentally move too much air through them. Playing 2 songs on a loud stage with poor monitoring wrecked a brand new D Crossover. I had to replace the reed because it was beyond retuning.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on May 31, 2018 11:53 AM
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robbert
462 posts
May 30, 2018
2:54 PM
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Manjis are very durable harps, loud, especially good for acoustic playing. I also now set up all my harps, whatever brand, and did a fair bit to the Manjis to get them close to what I want. I agree with Doug about the XOs. Mostly good ootb but more delicate. I’m sure it’s about the materials used to make the reeds. The Manji you have, Dig, will probably play well with a little tweaking. Not sure about variation in hole size. I’ve never played the 1847, only Session steel. The 1847s are a bit out of my price range. Perhaps I’ll try one sometime. I know a lot of players like them.
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Spderyak
217 posts
May 30, 2018
3:02 PM
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I like harps that work otb when you buy them. It took me quite awhile to realize that lots of folks, think you should have them gaped, tuned or whatever and absorb whatever costs are as a normal routine for buying a harp these days.
As one friend mentioned ( though not necessarily Manjis in particular)
He buys an expensive harp, then pays more money to have it customized so it is playable, just so it plays as nice as a good one that is straight from the box.
..say we buy a harp for $100 then pay another 100 to have it fixed (customized) so it will play as good as a $50 one he could have got in the 1st place...
(and of course a disclaimer as the prices are for example and do not represent the actual prices or pricing,etc etc)
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jbone
2561 posts
May 30, 2018
4:18 PM
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I have been very supportive of the whole Manji idea. This is partly because I was mad at Hohner, for years, over their descent into lesser quality in the name of more profit. It still sticks in my craw, but recently I got a new perspective thanks to Joe Filisko and others. I am willing to try a Crossover or Deluxe and will do so soon. BUT I do still like the idea of the Manji. To me it was direct competition with Marine Band. And in some ways maybe even better. The originals had a well machined comb and the gaps seemed really steadfast on every one. I liked the braised reeds as well, there was little chance a drop on stage would disable a harp as easily. Open covers. Replaceable reed plates. To me at that time it was the answer to my dilemma.
Along the way I have tried a lot of harps and like Doug I have a mixed bag. Even a stock nailed MB in my kit.
Perhaps Suzuki has slipped marginally quality wise. I remember the first Delta Frosts I bought, they at that time were also the panacea for my problem. As time went on I noticed I was getting new harps with loose screws or badly lined up plates. Before that it was Sp20 that had similar issues.
I buy reed plates as needed on my Manjis and take care to seat them and tighten them well. They do play louder than most of my other harps and we play some acoustic gigs so this is important.
I think too, my experiences and my own learning adventures figure into the equation to some extent. I don't think I was very picky in the 70's and 80's. Maybe harps were better made but I just assumed that the maker would sell a quality product and I was usually not disappointed. As my style changed- not always for the better if you look at hundreds of blown out reeds over about 15 years- I demanded more from a harp and at that time it seemed I was getting less.
Being a working class guy I have never had a very generous budget for harps. I have managed to get what I needed to keep me going but as far as extra $$ for customizing or repairs, it has not been part of my story. I have adjusted a few gaps here and there but any other attempts at repair or retuning have ended badly. So I DO want a dependable harp that plays well out of box. Yet I also suspect that I will always need to ensure that I know what's under the covers.
Digi, I wish you'd had a better experience with one of my favorite harps. I will be interested to hear what the next chapter entails. May be, Gnarly can whip that pup into fine shape for you!
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haziz
9 posts
May 30, 2018
9:41 PM
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The 1 hole does look smaller on my C and A Manji harps. Looks to me like this is by design and not an accident.
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shakeylee
743 posts
May 31, 2018
12:10 AM
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i think you got a dud,send it to gnarly.
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www.shakeylee.com
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digitalshrub
62 posts
May 31, 2018
6:02 AM
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Thanks to everybody for weighing in.
@jbone totally hear ya. It’s nice that we can be picky these days, but far better players than I were able to get by on fewer harp options back in the day.
@dougharps absolutely, each individual harmonica has its own demands for achieving optimal tone, and no two are alike when it comes to things like attack. Having spent years playing Blues Harps and Special 20s, I remember being shocked when I played my first Seydel, in that I *didn’t* have to hit it as hard in order to achieve a full tone. I don’t think I knew how fluid the different Draw 3 bends could be till I played my first 1847.
@gnarly thanks very much, I may indeed hit you up. You’re correct in that Hole 2 is larger, Hole 1 is not actually smaller than the others. Interesting design, but perhaps not one I’m a fan of. Still, the main compliment I can pay the Manji is it has great volume and a punchier tone than my 1847s, and if I can get it to play better, sweet. I’ll doublecheck where it came from (other than Amazon) and reach out to you next week if it’s eligible for warranty stuffs.
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SuperBee
5413 posts
May 31, 2018
6:23 AM
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If all else fails, the covers make decent stock for fishing lures
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SuperBee
5414 posts
May 31, 2018
6:23 AM
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If all else fails, the covers make decent stock for fishing lures
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Gnarly
2500 posts
May 31, 2018
9:18 AM
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@Cotton I think the colors of the Olive cover plate all vary slightly. My information is that the color is not applied, but occurs when the CP are treated in some way (heat?).
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zx679
42 posts
May 31, 2018
10:24 AM
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I don't suspect that the Manjis you bough are "duds". I had the same experience when I first bought them. I started out using Marine Bands and Special 20s and then tried some Manjis. I didn't like them because of some of the same reasons mentioned: they felt stiffer and less responsive, the three-hole bends were particularly difficult and the reed plates (although smooth) protrude a bit too much.
Long story short I just stuck with them and made them my primary harp because I noticed when I switched back to brass reeds (MB and Special 20) I felt like my chops were stronger and my technique was better. The Manjis felt like a real workout. My guess is the bronze phosphor reeds are just tougher. It might also be that the reeds are thicker and heavier than what Hohner users.
They're not perfect but they are my primary harps because they are the best overall package between Seydel, Hohner and Suzuki. It did take months to get used to them though.
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something something harmonicas...
Last Edited by zx679 on May 31, 2018 10:25 AM
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florida-trader
1315 posts
May 31, 2018
1:17 PM
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Couple of thoughts.
Digitalshrub -would it be possible to have you post a video or an audio file of you playing your Seydel and the disappointing Manji side by side? Sort of an AB comparison so we can all hear what you are describing? That would be very helpful.
Moving on……………….
Without getting too techie – dougharps made an excellent point in case you missed it. Oddly enough, sometimes simply taking a harp apart and putting it back together can solve a lot of problems. On the one hand, it doesn’t make much sense, but on the other hand, it makes all the sense in the world. All the harmonica manufacturers test each individual component – the reed plates, the covers and the comb – but they don’t actually play the fully assembled harmonica to see how it responds to a real live human being. Something as simple as over-tightening a screw, can make a reed bind in the slot because it dimples the reed plate. Sometimes just loosening a screw will fix the problem. Sounds weird, but it is true. Worth a try.
Moving on some more……………..
Without singling anyone out, I am puzzled by those of you who are so resistant to learning how to adjust your harps. I’m telling you that it is child’s play and the benefits are so profound that it just makes absolutely no sense to me how anyone who is supposedly serious about playing the harmonica could be so stubborn. Let’s get real. The notion that, “If I pay $50 for a harp it should be perfect!” is, if you will forgive me, naïve. I could go into a men’s clothing store and purchase a $500 suit and there’s a good chance it might need a little tailoring. You could spend $5000 on a professional saxophone and guess what, you still have to choose which reed to put on it. Did you know that clarinet reeds and saxophone reeds come in different stiffnesses? They are numbered from 1.0 (softest) to 5.0 (stiffest) with .5 steps in between. If you are used to a 3.5 and I hand you a sax with 4.0 reed on it – you will hate it. How may knobs and dials on mics, effect pedals and amps do you have to fiddle with to get the “perfect” sound you are looking for? The analogies are endless. Stop being so helpless!
OK – rant over…………………………
Moving on again………………………….
Here’s my take on Hohner vs. Suzuki vs. Seydel. This is my personal opinion, based upon building a few thousand harps over the past 5+ years. I know that as a harp builder, my thinking is biased, but I look at stock harps are building blocks upon which to build high quality, high performing, custom harps. It doesn’t have to cost a lot of money. You don’t have to install custom combs if you don’t want to. As I work on reed plates, there are certain things that I (and all other customizers) look at.
Is the comb flat?
Are the reed plates flat?
Are the reeds flat (not the pitch, but the shape)?
Are the reeds centered in the slot?
How are the reeds gapped – relative to where they “should” be?
How are the reeds tuned – relative to where they “should” be?
I am both a Hohner and Suzuki Dealer. I work primarily with Marine Bands (including pre-wars), Special 20s, Golden Melodys and Manjis. I don’t do much with Seydels, but that is because one of my best harp buddies is a Seydel Dealer, and choose not to compete with him. Call it…….. professional courtesy.
Hohner’s reeds are made out of brass, which is a very soft metal.
Suzuki’s reeds are made out of Phosphor Bronze, which is quite a bit harder than brass.
Seydel’s reeds are made out of Stainless Steel, which are harder than Phosphor Bronze.
Bear in mind, that all of the above mentioned harps are great foundations upon which to build wonderful harmonicas. However, as judged by the criteria set above, Hohner makes reed plates that are most in need of adjustment, but because of the soft brass reeds, are by far, the easiest to work on. The reeds are often curved or are off center in the slot, the gaps are frequently absurdly wide, and the tuning is frequently way off. But, as I said, they are easy to work on get right.
Suzuki reed plates require far less attention. The reeds are perfectly flat. The gapping is very consistent and generally much tighter than Hohners. The reeds are generally well centered, however, if you emboss the slots and tighten up the tolerances, it is very common to find a reed that is slightly off center. You don’t notice it until you emboss the slots. The reeds are laser tuned, which simply means that they are not propped up and filed on to put them into tune at the factory. It is this process of propping the reeds up with a shim and filing them which can distort the shape of the reeds. Personally, I don’t care for Suzuki’s version of Compromise Temperament so I re-tune all the Manjis I build to Modern Compromise Temperament – which is how Marine Bands are tuned. The Phosphor Bronze reeds are a little harder to tune and adjust than brass, but they are in less need of work than the Hohners. If you want to see how little time is actually spent on harps when they are built, watch this video and you will see.
https://youtu.be/XxeR1vifJBg
Seydel reed plates are the least in need of adjustment. The reeds are flat, they are centered, they are gapped very nicely and of the three brands, they are closest to the what the factory specifications are. Frankly, it is easy to see why so many people love Out of the Box Seydels. They are, in my opinion, extremely well made.
Again, all three brands, after they have been worked on by a competent harp tech, can be wonderful instruments. If you are used to the soft brass of Hohners, you might not like the stiffer Suzuki or Seydel reeds. That is a matter of personal preference. I eat my own cooking and play a little bit of everything.
That’s my two cents – for what it is worth. (two cents, I guess)
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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ted burke
682 posts
May 31, 2018
3:49 PM
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manjis are mediocre harmonicas.
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www.ted-burke.com
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Lou
33 posts
May 31, 2018
5:03 PM
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Great info. here I just started gaping and have question if a draw hole is real airy is that solved with gaping or ?
Thanks
Lou
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dougharps
1761 posts
May 31, 2018
6:20 PM
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@ted burke
Ted, obviously each of us is entitled to form our own opinions regarding music, gear, and harmonicas. The relationship between player and harp is personal.
However, if you are going to post your opinion regarding the mediocrity of a specific brand and model of instrument on a public, internationally read forum it would be helpful if you also offered us a little insight as to how/why you arrived at this opinion.
In my opinion, any instrument on the market today that I have tried could be called mediocre, because each of them has shortcomings and strengths. I would place Manjis in the same category of acceptable professional level harps as Seydel steel, MBDs, Crossovers, Rockets and SP20s.
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Doug S.
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SuperBee
5416 posts
May 31, 2018
7:13 PM
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Very good post Tom. I strongly agree with almost all of it.
I don’t have an opinion about Manji because I just haven’t seen enough of them.
The only thing I disagree with is the glowing report of Seydel harps.
In my experience there are problems which I see fairly regularly with Seydel.
I believe they may have overcome the heavy handed tuning theses days but certainly a few years ago I was seeing very deep gouging in seeded (*doh! Seidel steel) reeds, including a few with actual holes.
Seydel reeds are more prone to become misaligned than any other brand, especially in the lower keys. Ive had many on my bench which had this problem. I believe it’s related to the hardness of the reed material, which makes for a less secure bond between rivet and reed.
The other thing I commonly see in Seidel steel harps are very badly shaped reeds in holes 1 and 2 especially. Typically this will manifest as a reed which will play but sounds a bit weak and chokes out if you give it a bit more air. The free tip of the reed may appear to be gapped ok or even a bit wide, but on closer inspection I find the reed is curved and going belly-first into the slot. This can be a real pill to straighten as it’s usually the low reeds with a thick steel weighted section. I don’t even bother trying to straighten these on the harp anymore. I just sub a new straight reed if I can find one. Otherwise i’ll Remove the old bent reed and straighten it on the bench.
6v8qum
Last Edited by SuperBee on May 31, 2018 7:14 PM
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ted burke
684 posts
May 31, 2018
9:36 PM
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the harmonicas are sluggish, respond poorly, are very uncomforatlbe to play and produce a brackish tone. they seem to fight you as you try to play them. i realize others swear by them. not me. i own four of them in different keys and all four to be substandard; they simply do not play well.c2j4m
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www.ted-burke.com
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AppalachiaBlues
175 posts
Jun 01, 2018
2:53 AM
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I like the Manji. I use it mainly for playing acoustically in loud settings - outdoors or bars, often jamming with guitar players un-mic'd. They are loud, responsive, and take a beating. It took me awhile to warm up to them. They require a slight change in playing style... difficult to describe. But once I got the hang of them, no problem at all. I can really get control of the reeds and bend them with precision. I flat sanded the draw plate and comb, and I fine-tuned the gaps... which I do on all harps.
My main harps for gigging and recording are Session Steel. I have a set of 14, and take really good care of them. I bought the Manijis on a trip to Japan, so they cost me 1/2 the price of a Session Steel (or 1/3 the price of a Crossover). Cheaper than a SP20. So I use them as my "beater" harps - I take them out for beer-soaked bar nights, and picnics in the park. Leave them in hot car all day, take them to the beach, etc. They hold up incredibly well and have stayed in tune. They are a joy to play, and the design feels great in the hands. I will buy more keys, next time I visit Japan.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Jun 01, 2018 2:58 AM
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jbone
2564 posts
Jun 01, 2018
6:29 AM
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Slight OT:
Anyone who does not want their Manjis, I am hosting an adoption clinic. I will give them a good home and make sure they get to perform as often as possible. I prefer them over pit bulls any day. Message me on the FB link below.
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florida-trader
1316 posts
Jun 01, 2018
8:26 AM
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SuperBee – excellent comments. I concur. My only argument is that relative to the other brands, Seydel reed plates need less work to get them to where I want them to be. Where “I want them to be” is somewhat arbitrary consequently, so is my opinion.
I meant to comment about the different slot sizes on the comb. I thought it might be a case of Suzuki getting a bad batch of combs and just using them anyway. This morning, I took a closer look and was a little surprised by what I found. Bear in mind that I have been in the custom comb business for just about 8 years and when you design combs using 3D Modeling Software and manufacture them with a CNC Milling Machine, you have to be very deliberate and precise about measurements and dimensions. It is something that I pay attention to more than most.
As digitalshrub has pointed out in his original post, the 1 slot is indeed narrower than the 2 slot. So is the 10 slot narrower than the 9 slot. And in fact, there is a bit of inconsistency in the width of the slots throughout both the Manji and the Olive combs, which are presumably made from the same molds. I don’t know if this really makes a difference, but it isn’t that hard to “get it right” so it is surprising to me that Suzuki doesn’t. By “get it right” I simply mean that all the reeds are centered in each chamber. Here are some photos to illustrate what I am talking about.
Notice here how the reed pad on the 1 slot if very close to the chamber wall whereas they are centered in the 2 and 3 slots.
The same is true for the Olive.
And you will see the opposite positioning on the high end. See how the reed pads on the 10 slot are off center.
I have measured the thickness of the tines or dividers and they are very uniform so the difference in the slot widths is due to the position of the tines.
Again, I don’t know if this really matters. I have seen this situation before with after-market combs made by other vendors and it is something I pay close attention to. I never noticed it on the Suzuki combs because I simply don’t handle them very much. I only buy reed plates and covers from Suzuki and use my own combs to build custom Manjis. I am as surprised as anyone else at this discovery.
By the way, if you click on any of the photos, it will open up a small album on PhotoBucket.com where I have also included some photos of my own product where the reeds are all centered in the slots.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Last Edited by florida-trader on Jun 01, 2018 8:39 AM
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dougharps
1762 posts
Jun 01, 2018
8:35 AM
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Thanks for offering more info, Ted!
Yes, Manjis do have a different sound. That sound is OK with me, but I understand if you don't care for the sound.
I don't find Manjis uncomfortable to play, but if you do, I get it. I have to smooth the corners on new SP20s because they are uncomfortable to me OOTB.
Manjis do require a different attack than Hohners, and I found that they do fight nuanced bending until you get past that threshold by playing them for a while. Initially, I shared your concern about how they play with more difficulty, because I was coming from SP20s, MBDs, and Crossovers that play more easily.
I still choose Hohners first for lower volume nuanced playing, but I use Manjis in loud acoustic playing or loud stage environments with poor monitoring (or if I think I might get carried away). The Hohners don't stand up to the abuse as well as a Manji. The Crossover is a tight harp, and cannot survive inappropriate airflow quantity. The Manji D harp, in particular, is much better at surviving if too much air is accidentally moved through the harp.
I liked Mooncat's take that they are like playing a guitar with heavier strings.
They have a place in my gig case, I value them, but I use them for specific purposes.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 01, 2018 8:37 AM
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AppalachiaBlues
176 posts
Jun 01, 2018
9:18 AM
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I agree with Doug. My Manji D is a real workhorse and puts up with a lot of abuse. I like Mooncat's guitar string analogy. I ride bicycles, and other analogy is when you switch to a new bike, it takes some time to get used to it and learn how to make it operate at maximum performance and ride it efficiently. The first day on a new bike can feel strange, and not as effortless as the old bike.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Jun 01, 2018 9:19 AM
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florida-trader
1317 posts
Jun 01, 2018
11:27 AM
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Several of you have mentioned the different playing characteristics of different brands and/or models. For example, Phosphor Bronze Suzuki Reeds are stiffer than Brass Hohner Reeds and require a different attack. The same can be said when comparing a G harp to a C harp to an F harp. They require a different approach.
So, here’s a question for you. How many of you have a set of harps that have a consistent feel from your lowest key to your highest key?
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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dougharps
1765 posts
Jun 01, 2018
1:13 PM
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Tom, I would say that there is a distinct qualitative difference in using a different attack required by different brands for bending vs. shaping your airway and positioning your tongue to fit the different pitches on a harp or set of harps.
The only harps I have ever own that offered playing consistency, just on that specific harp from top to bottom and not on all keys, were customized harps.
No, I don't have all keys of any customized harps.
However, I have sets of certain brands that are generally consistent across keys. They didn't all come that way OOTB, that is from my making adjustments.
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Doug S.
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Gnarly
2501 posts
Jun 01, 2018
3:57 PM
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OK, well, if the odd hole size bothers you, buy one of Tom's combs and Bob's your uncle.
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BnT
168 posts
Jun 02, 2018
11:20 PM
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Digi,
Sorry you had a bad experience. I have 19 Manji's in my harp case, so I'm pretty happy with them (actually 13 + 6 Olives a friend gave me - and I replaced the closed Olive covers with open style Manji covers).
Having had enough bad OOTB experiences in my 50+ years of playing it does leave a bad taste. I hope you have better future experiences. If anyone can help with a Manji, it's Gnarly. He built a Manji for me and it's my best playing harp (he re-tuned a Manji because I needed an Ebm for 'Take Five").
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BnT
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Kingley
4090 posts
Jun 03, 2018
7:50 AM
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Bought a few Manji's years ago. Nice harps but in the end decided I simply preferred playing the classic Hohner Marine Bands 1896 harmonicas. The Manji's were I found a little harder to play, but not massively so. Wasn't a fan of the tuning, so re-tuned them to 7 Limit JI (my preferred tuning). Still found them lacking though.
I've always been intrigued to try the Seydel 1847, but at around £64 each that's the price of two and a bit Marine Bands. So given that fact I won't be trying one anytime soon.
Have never had a Marine Band since they brought out the new sealed combs ones, that didn't play well or that had any dodgy reeds. In my experience they have all been really good straight out of the box. Whilst I do set them up for my preferred way of playing though. I'd have no qualms about playing an out of the box Marine Band 1896. For my money they are the best (and cheapest) of all the harps I've tried, by quite a margin. Of course everyone is different and its what floats your boat at the end of the day. We are very lucky today to have such a wide range of choices when it comes to harps.
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ROBERT TEMPLE II
18 posts
Jun 05, 2018
10:25 AM
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I, too,found my manjis very odd. first, the rails seemed too far out and hurt my lips/mouth. the tuning was not what i was used to, it was in some compromised tuning that made the chords sound terrible, really strange for such a much-hyped harp. the 2 and 3 draws were nearly impossible to use as well. and, yes, the 1 hole is certainly narrower.
then i sent them to JOE SPIERS and they came back perfectly tuned to 19 limit JUST INTONATION. the rails were smoothed to be very comfy. both harps were set up in joe's stage 2+. the harps are louder than any i have ever played and i like that. the one hole is still noticeably smaller but is not a problem.
i have liked other suzuki harps over the years, sound-wise, but the smaller shapes of both the firebreath and overdrive were not so great. i have recently learned of the suzuki harpmaster which is supposedly the same as the old bushman delta frosts which i absolutely love. i much prefer recessed combs so my next harp purchase will be a harpmaster.
Last Edited by ROBERT TEMPLE II on Jun 05, 2018 10:27 AM
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groyster1
3187 posts
Jun 07, 2018
1:55 PM
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I first bought manji @$42......they are overpriced now.......they play well but too much for their product
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digitalshrub
64 posts
Jun 09, 2018
1:28 PM
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Wow, there's so much to respond to here, that I don't know where to begin.
@florida-trader good call; I just recorded a fairly shoddy pass of "Work Song" in Gm on a Seydel 1847 Silver and my Manji, both harps key of C. Even tried to get that overblow in there (let's just say it's a work in progress). It sounds pretty rough but the goal was A-B comparison, not flawless playing. Here's the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/wdqsfuf466b8c8p/Seydel_1847_vs_Suzuki_Manji.m4a/file
This was recorded using an Audio-Technica condenser mic into Focusrite Scarlett into Logic.
I felt fairly out of breath after the Manji take, compared to the 1847, especially when playing in the first three holes. The Manji is noticeably louder, as it rushes the mic with wind a few times at the top of "Work Song." I didn't use any cupping or hand effects.
Last Edited by digitalshrub on Jun 09, 2018 1:29 PM
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agarner
27 posts
Jun 11, 2018
5:44 AM
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I got a brand new Manji this past weekend for $20 off Craigslist. My typical harp is either a Special 20 or Marine Band, and I was really happy with the Manji. There was definitely different action on the reeds, (especially the lower draws) but once I got the feel it was great.
The thing I love is the tone. It isn't quite as bright and sparkly as my Hohners, but instead has a wonderful rich and mellow sound. I would absolutely look into buying another.
Last Edited by agarner on Jun 11, 2018 6:06 AM
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