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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Body Signals and Band Control
Body Signals and Band Control
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Arrick
147 posts
Apr 15, 2018
4:54 PM
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I'm new to fronting a band and struggling to signal the group for stops, ending the song, bringing it down (dynamics), etc. The only signal they have is "stick your foot out if you want to end the song". That's just something they did when I met them.
Are there any universal standards for things like this? For example: What does "raising your hand" mean to most players? I don't want to make up our own sign language if we can learn the right way together.
How do you signal your band?
Last Edited by Arrick on Apr 15, 2018 4:55 PM
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Littoral
1590 posts
Apr 16, 2018
6:37 AM
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Lot's of signals but I don't know of much that's standard that either isn't obvious or you don't (probably) already know.
Here's old school for "what key? -
The key of the song is silently indicated by hand with the number of flats held down or the number of sharps held up.
Last Edited by Littoral on Apr 16, 2018 7:07 AM
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andysheep8
72 posts
Apr 16, 2018
6:50 AM
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Used to play with a guitarist who would tell me the key if asked. If he couldn't hear me i had printed out a picture of a key with a question mark. One day he answered with a picture of an ear. Couldn't play for laughing.
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Gnarly
2476 posts
Apr 16, 2018
7:09 AM
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"raising your hand" means "look at me"
Unless you are in class, then it means, "I have to go to the bathroom"
That foot thing is a bluegrass move.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Apr 16, 2018 7:10 AM
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The Iceman
3537 posts
Apr 16, 2018
7:25 AM
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If you are in front of the band, turn towards them, get eye contact, raise hand with palm down to shoulder level with elbow bent, and then bend knees while slightly lowering your arm = COME DOWN IN VOLUME
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Apr 16, 2018 7:25 AM
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Gnarly
2477 posts
Apr 16, 2018
8:23 AM
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More clues
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Mirco
580 posts
Apr 16, 2018
9:32 AM
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I can't recommend enough that you go to David Barrett's bluesharmonica.com for this. The visuals and explanations are great.
For a break, it's a quick drop of your hand. Most bands need more time than that to prepare, so you should START raising your hand 4 beats before the break, and time it so you come down on the beat you want the break. For example, if you want a break on the downbeat of bar 11, start bringing your hand up in bar 10. In your head, you're counting "1...2...3..4...BREAK!"
To lower the volume, it's a hand, palm-face down. You might use your body to signal this, too, by crouching down.
When signalling a solo, make sure you make contact with the appropriate band member sometime in the last four measures of the form. More importantly, avoid looking at someone unless you want them to solo.
If you're ending the song with a standard break ending, follow the instructions for the break above. If you're doing something else, make it obvious to the band. If you have a moment between playing, you can say something like "Here we go" or "Last time". Sometimes just turning around to face the band is enough. (We spend most of our time facing towards the audience. Good musicians are aware of your body language. Just by changing your body position, they will know something is happening.)
I can't think of what else you might want to know. You really should check out Dave's site or spend some time watching other musicians and seeing how they do it. Jams are the best place for this, because the bands haven't rehearsed together prior. You can see who is really effective as a bandleader. Copy what they do.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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snowman
337 posts
Apr 16, 2018
7:20 PM
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I belong to David Barrets sight---its huge --couldn't find 'leading the band'
websearch found;
http://blog.sonicbids.com/8-jam-session-hand-signals-musicians
https://worthilymagnify.com/2009/07/28/hand-signals/
one thing for sure if u want a guitarist to take next lead --POINT AHEAD OF TIME-- not on the last beat of the last measure b4 his lead---or any one taking a lead for that matter
Its hideous coming in on 234th beat of your lead--coming in on the 1 beat or little b4 is huge------
Also go up to mike with a look meaning " Im singing next go round"
hope this helps
during the turn in 12 bar--- point to guitarist
etc and knod--he'll step on his lead pedals etc 'now he's ready
If u like his lead n the audience is into it-AGAIN LET HIM KNOW EARLY-point at him--roll yr finger in a circle put 1 finger up meaning take another 12 bar go round--- let him know to keep going---let him know ahead of time
Guys like me are always looking at the leader during the turn for example--cuz I want to know if im going again--or he's going to keyboard etc
If the leader is lookin at me and pointing to keyboard guy --I know to give him a lead in-- either build or drop down as appropriate
If im the guy I say[ hey come down on 2nd verse in dynamics--I'll do 2 go rounds maybe 1 -then guitar
If u get a guy who never looks up its a bummer-cuz the key I think is mixing the right amount of vocals with harp with keys etc break it up
my buddy can read music--he could go into a studio and sit in with anyone---and i mean anyone-but he never looks up-- he never leaves people wanting just a little more---
My gosh on voodoo child--u see people being amazed, then bored, then get a hot dog, then come back and he's still going--
Tell everyone ahead of time everyone will get a go around blah blah blah
always b aware of hogs "superstars" communicate
Last Edited by snowman on Apr 16, 2018 7:26 PM
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Mirco
581 posts
Apr 16, 2018
9:19 PM
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On bluesharmonica.com, look at the studies marked "Performance Training." I believe the first one (Performance Training 1, oddly enough) is the sort of thing the OP referred to.
The other lessons in the series go over groove (PT2), the jam session, how to start a band, etc. They're all really good.
Also: for every study song on the site, Dave has a short video on "How to Play with the Band". He tells you, verbatim, how to describe the song to a band at a jam session and shows how to signal things appropriately. For this, you can look at any song on the site.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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Martin
1461 posts
Apr 17, 2018
8:31 AM
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If you´re into a solo and you want to keep going for a while longer the "hand in the air with a rotating finger" is a good one and, I find, hard to misunderstand. (Mentioned in the link above: http://blog.sonicbids.com/8-jam-session-hand-signals-musicians)
If the band don´t react accordingly to that -- even after you´ve given them instructions -- change band.
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tomaxe
124 posts
Apr 17, 2018
10:09 AM
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All great advice here. My 2 cents from experience as well as hosting jams:
When starting up a new band or at an open jam: now is not the time to be cool and casual with subtle nods or hand gestures. You see this so often...the singer or harp player casually nods at the guitarist who is looking at his shoes or his pedals, or the singer shifts their shoulders towards the confused drummer who is just trying to lock in with the bass.
BIG, GOOFY hand movements at first. Exaggerate. You, as the harp player, have at least one hand free. Use it. Before the tune starts, say "watch me for the breaks", "guitar player takes the first solo" and do that scissor fingers in your eye thing, to say "watch me".
Once you guys get comfortable playing together, then you can move towards cooler, subtler nods, points, gestures, etc, and you can jam all night like the Allman Brothers.
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Arrick
148 posts
Apr 17, 2018
1:40 PM
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This is all *very* helpful. Interesting that the "Stick your foot out to stop" is a bluegrass thing. These are bluegrass people I'm converting to blues, lol. This will be really helpful. My old jam was just a guitar-fest. This one, they're all looking to me to lead. That's letting me pick harp-centric songs and stick to blues, but it's also lobbing me into uncharted territory. Thanks. You all rock!!!
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barbequebob
3498 posts
Apr 18, 2018
8:37 AM
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I can't stress how important signals are for EVERYTHING in order to lead a band. They often will need to be not only visual but often times VERBAL and often at the same time. When you're getting a band together for the first time, you may want to work out with everybody there all of your signals. Tomaxe's point about exaggerated signals is totally spot on and it brings up another point here because so many harp players, ESPECIALLY ones who only troll the jams do the most complaining about bands being too loud are often the very same people who NEVER BOTHER TO USE SIGNALS OF ANY KIND!!! In over 30+ years, including my own time hosting a jam, this has been a real problem and too many think musicians, regardless if they're pro or not, ESPECIALLY jammers, often think musicians are mind readers and that's asking way too much. When you use signals, you are TAKING CONTROL OF THE SITUATION and most non pro players often never learn these things. For many of you out there, when you watch a pro at work, don't just do the jam hack thing and pay attention only to the damned solos, but also watch how they do other things, INCLUDING giving signals, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the band dynamics. If you don't learn these things, your behind is gonna get run over pretty easily. It pays off the be VERY ANAL about the details and that's one of the biggest things that separates pros from jammers.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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The Iceman
3542 posts
Apr 18, 2018
10:06 AM
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Even hand signals won't work very well if you are not 100% confident in your ability to let your force of will dominate the stage.
Make sure the band knows that you are the boss - none of this "Democratic band" stuff where everyone is equal. That NEVER works in the long run.
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The Iceman
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barbequebob
3501 posts
Apr 19, 2018
9:46 AM
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Iceman, that statement is absolutely 100% TRUE!!! Democracies NEVER work in a band because somebody HAS to be in charge and has the final say in everything or it all falls apart and I've seen far too many cases of democracies in band situations that has bands chasing their tails and accomplishing exactly NOTHING AT ALL.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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IaNerd
43 posts
Apr 19, 2018
11:59 AM
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I learned "the foot thing" playing in an Irish session group.
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garry
718 posts
Apr 19, 2018
5:29 PM
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I may or may not agree with Iceman and barbecuebob. I'll let you know once the bass player and guitarist have voted.
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snowman
341 posts
Apr 21, 2018
9:10 AM
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When I first started playing in front of people-1980-----the guy who got me started said
" I have been in bands a long time ----SOMEONE HAS TO BE THE GUY-Im the guy"
I said fine ---cuz I have no clue
I agree w/ BBQ Bob Iceman and everyone, whole heartedly
what happens when " no one calls the songs" and everyone else obeys is;
"dead time on stage with gals n guys, that don't appear to know what there doing"--- even if yr famous or the best in the world--too much dead time is not good
I love just playing harp and (singing occasionally) in the band Im in now --- No guitar--
Im so use to having to be the guy----call the songs--sing the songs play rhythm guitar on the songs--figure out what song to play next b4 the current song ends---It gets old,
I can help the guy leading, when we go off setlist---He gets this dear in headlights look--- so I say hey what about this song or this one -- I DON'T ARGUE WITH HIS DECISION.
Its cool being an employee and not the employer--so less stressful and when yr humble, u can help relieve stress for yr employer, "cuz u have been there'
Last Edited by snowman on Apr 21, 2018 9:12 AM
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IaNerd
44 posts
Apr 25, 2018
11:33 AM
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C'mon. Categorical statements are susceptible to being invalidated by even one counterexample. Thereby, the assertion that, to be effective, a music group MUST have a strong leader, is incorrect. I'm pleased to be part of a happy and enduring counterexample.
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nacoran
9817 posts
Apr 25, 2018
6:42 PM
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I think the band needs a functioning government. What form that government is depends a lot on the band. There is also a difference between pro bands and garage bands. The first band I was in (as a lyric writer/back up vocalist and made sure everyone had copies of the lyrics) the guitar player was the guy who called everyone to schedule practice and dealt with recording (which was a mistake... but none of us knew what we are doing.) The lead singer and I wrote the songs. The drummer just showed up and played. He also explained the parts to the bass player who was just learning. The band fell apart when we kicked the guitar player out. (We found out he was a literal, Swastika owning Nazi.)
My second band started as a duo. We split singing duties. He played rhythm guitar. We learned to write songs together and handled things pretty democratically. When we added a bass and an lead guitar player we found that the lead guitar player was so ADD that we couldn't go over someone else's part without him starting to play something entirely different in the corner. And he'd distract the bass player. What we figured out was that the two of us who had started the band had to have songwriting sessions without the rest of the band. We'd teach the bass player and he'd teach the guitar player (they were roommates). It worked pretty well until the other singer flaked on us. (Drummer was a flake too).
We just learned to share. We usually had whoever wrote the song take the lead for that song as far as running the stage. We could have used someone who was a bit more go getter when it came to booking things, but it was mostly a democracy.
Back to stage directions we usually used the raised fist on the beat both for a one bar count in and for a one bar count for the end.
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Nate
Facebook
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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tomaxe
126 posts
Apr 26, 2018
8:34 AM
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I have been in bands with a strong leader and democratic ones, and I, for one, actually preferred the democratic approach, as the 'leader' was a bit of a moody a$$. But admittedly we are part-timers, and if your livlihood is solely dependent on performing, and you are going for long-term success, you had better damn well have someone who is "large and in charge" of your band. Even in our democratic band there is someone who needs to be a bit more pragmatic and focused, just to get things done, and keep it moving.
ON STAGE these days: Like Nate said...the guy who sings the song, or wrote the song, or calls out the song, leads the band. In music like blues or rock, which is often improvisational during solos, it's essential to have one band member take charge during the song. Especially when you are a new band getting your sea legs, or at a jam. Otherwise, the inevitable train wreck.
I have found that musicians, like many creative types, can be wonderful, inspirational people. They are also, at times, irrational, moody, and strange. Introverted at some times, and strangely extroverted at others. They often want/need leadership to focus, even if they don't know it. If you have a democratic situation that you are happy with, hey man, count your blessings!
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