Arrick
124 posts
Nov 28, 2017
8:41 PM
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A Facebook group suggested I try putting my LW Harp Delay first in the chain since it's buffered. I was plugging a hot ceramic bullet mic into a 470 Ohm input on my octave pedal and it was sucking my tone. He mentioned impedance match, but I'm still confused on how best to order my pedals to keep my tone optimal. The impedance in/out seems all over the place on these pedals and I don't know what the impedance ratings are for the LW Delay other than that it is "buffered".
Here's what I've got and the order I was thinking: (input/output)
- Hi-Z Mic
- LW Harp Delay (buffered for harp)
- Octave (470k Ohm / 100 Ohm)
- Rotary SIm (470k Ohm / 100 Ohm)
- Auto-Wah (500k Ohm / 10k Ohm)
- Reverb (1 M Ohm / 100 Ohm)
- Kalamazoo Tube Amp
Any feedback on if this should get it done? If I bought a LW Terminator and put it first, could my delay go back to the end of the chain just before reverb?
Moving the delay to first spot made a HUGE difference in my tone. I didn't realize how much those bypassed pedals were affecting things.
Last Edited by Arrick on Nov 29, 2017 6:43 AM
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Andrew
1737 posts
Nov 29, 2017
3:24 AM
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Lone Wolf say their input impedance is designed for crystal mics, so go for it.
https://www.lonewolfblues.com/delay.html
"buffering" just seems to mean amplification to avoid signal loss, but since all those pedals are active, there shouldn't be any signal loss, I'd have thought.
It's complicated, isn't it. If impedance were the only criterion, you might try putting the reverb first. I'm surprised at how low those other input impedances are.
But impedance isn't the only criterion - you have effects working on effects. Two effects won't necessarily commute - in other words A followed by B won't necessarily be the same as B followed by A - do you want your delay to reverberate or do you want your reverb delayed. That may be what you are perceiving as bad tone.
(As with all my posts, I know nothing, but it helps if I think out loud and invite correction)
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Andrew.
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Last Edited by Andrew on Nov 29, 2017 4:36 AM
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Bruce S
48 posts
Nov 29, 2017
5:58 AM
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@ Arrick "If I bought a LW Terminator and put it first, could my delay go back to the end of the chain just before reverb?"
Absolutely; the LW Terminator presents a 10 megohm input impedance, and would drive the lower impedance effects better.
I've seen pedals with anything from a 50K input to 1 meg input impedance but none as low as 470 ohms- I'd guess that it's 470K input and 100K output?
@Andrew- Buffering doesn't provide amplification to avoid signal loss per se, they are unity gain. In fact in most cases it actually results in a very small loss of signal, but it presents a high impedance input and low impedance output.
http://www.muzique.com/lab/buffers.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_amplifier
Not all pedals like being buffered; I've heard that some vintage fuzz pedals don't.
It's also worth noting that if your pedal is true bypass, and you switch it off then you will lose the buffering effect.
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Andrew
1738 posts
Nov 29, 2017
6:24 AM
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@Bruce S
"I'd guess that it's 470K input and 100K output?"
I'd guess and hope it was 470K input and 100 ohm output.
"the LW Terminator presents a 10 megohm input impedance, and would drive the lower impedance effects better."
The 10M input impedance would certainly offer the mic the best available load.
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Andrew.
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Arrick
127 posts
Nov 29, 2017
6:45 AM
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Oops. There were some missing Ks in there. Shows how much I understand this stuff, lol. I updated my original post. Those two pedals are 470k ohm/100 ohm.
I leave my Delay pedal on all the time, so I should be getting buffered signals to the other pedal(s). I don't see the impedance values in/out listed for the LW Harp Delay, but I would assume it's doing everything the terminator would do other than splitting the signal.
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Bruce S
50 posts
Nov 29, 2017
7:40 AM
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"I don't see the impedance values in/out listed for the LW Harp Delay, but I would assume it's doing everything the terminator would do other than splitting the signal."
IIRC Randy told me the input impedance is 1M for the Harp Delay. Nathan will chime in here if I'm wrong...
You might notice a slightly fuller sound with even higher impedance if using a ceramic mic; that's why some amps have 4.7M inputs. A CM will be happy going into anything above about 100K.
I used to have a Dan-Echo that was trebly with my JT30 until I modified it with a buffer. I sold it when I got the Harp Delay.
Last Edited by Bruce S on Nov 29, 2017 7:41 AM
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Andrew
1739 posts
Nov 29, 2017
7:53 AM
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Again employing only the impedance criterion, that Auto-Wah (10k output seems wrongly high to me) is best followed by the reverb.
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Andrew.
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HarpNinja
4278 posts
Nov 29, 2017
8:32 AM
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IMO, you want the delay 2nd to last (keep reverb last). I would then try the auto wah before and after the octave and see what you like best. You should notice a difference in how the wah responds and just go with whatever you like best.
The rotary is probably fine anywhere after the octave like how you have it.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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