Philosofy
858 posts
Nov 16, 2017
4:10 PM
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I'm thinking of asking for one for Christmas. Who makes good half valved harps? I would imagine that Seydel's PT Gazell model is at the top of the list, but am I missing others?
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root
95 posts
Nov 16, 2017
4:46 PM
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Check out the Easttop half valved diatonics at New Harmonica.com.they're not shown on the website; Give Danny G a call and ask him if he still has them. Great harps.
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Martin
1329 posts
Nov 17, 2017
4:18 AM
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But if you are, like me, hard on your harps, don´t expect the Easttops to last you through life -- they wear out rather quickly. (Which must be compared to their reasonableness in price, of course.)
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Flbl
39 posts
Nov 17, 2017
6:57 AM
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Suzuki Promasters, I have 4, no complaints.
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Philosofy
859 posts
Nov 17, 2017
7:49 AM
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Can you buy the Promasters valved? I know the combs aren't too flat at times.
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Flbl
40 posts
Nov 17, 2017
11:23 AM
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The Promasters come valved or unvalved, while I have read several complaints about them, the ones I have play without a problem. They need to be played different than a regular harp, they respond well to much less air, in fact it's surprising how well they can be played with just a little bit of breath, but if you try to really whale on one the results wont be good. Now i haven't tried other brands, but would think the same applies.
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John M G
170 posts
Nov 17, 2017
1:46 PM
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I'm with Flbl, I received my first ever valved Promaster 3 days ago and have found he is spot on with his comments.
I bought a reconditioned one on eBay from the seller harmonicalandusa for a very reasonable price and just ordered another. It was only $43 to you get an aluminium comb, smooth coverplate harp with valved reeds!
Not a bad way to go if you are thinking of having a play with a valved diatonic.
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SuperBee
5078 posts
Nov 17, 2017
2:15 PM
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The valved promasters I have are unplayable in my estimation. Unquestionably the worst harps I ever bought. They certainly can’t be played like a regular harp, I have no argument with that. I took the valves off several (I have 5) and they have resisted all attempts to make them play well. I can’t even sell the rotten things in good conscience. Just rubbish. Gold version no less. I bought them very cheap, but no bargain really. I suppose the covers might be of use to someone.
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Harp Study
255 posts
Nov 17, 2017
6:20 PM
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I half valve alot myself, but the best I've found are the seydel steels (or 1847s) from PT himself. I've got one from seydel and I found the ones I've got from PT to play better. The valves in the promasters are very rattly and make too much noise.
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Sarge
648 posts
Nov 17, 2017
7:11 PM
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I agree with Harp Study. If you want a good half valved harp get it from PT.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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dchurch
155 posts
Nov 17, 2017
8:43 PM
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I play valved Seydel Orchestra and Suzuki Promaster and some DIY.
The Orchestra is essentially a Session Steel with different covers (no numbers) and a transparent comb. It can be ordered with valves. The Seydel valves are made of one piece of material similar to ultra-suede or moleskin (leathery fabric)
The factory Suzuki Promaster has valves made of plastic similar to Mylar or transparency film. Each valve is made of one full length piece of Mylar covered by one half-length piece.
I prefer the Seydel for traditional blues because they are very similar to my session steel stock harps.
I personally love the Promasters. But I play them with less breath, more care and more for melody. I have special tuning on 7-10. The ones I own are very well machined and wonderfully put together. They are more air tight OTB compared to the Seydels that I own. The valves seal great but I agree that they are more prone to occasional buzzing problems than the Seydel valves.
I have installed ultra-suede valves on some of my MB… with good results.
Good luck
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It's about time I got around to this.
Last Edited by dchurch on Nov 17, 2017 10:39 PM
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SuperBee
5079 posts
Nov 17, 2017
8:52 PM
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My promasters are clearly old as the hills and a mixed bunch, due to being less popular keys and having been very expensive in the gold version.
The F has threaded Reedplates and spot welded red brass reeds,
the HiG and Db have riveted yellow brass reeds and threaded plates
The Ab and B have welded yellow brass reeds but the Reedplates are threadless.
They all have 1-piece Mylar valves. I’ve put the B and Db onto Zajac combs. The B actually is an acceptable harp now but I did a lot of work on it to get it that way.
I remember at least 1 had valve glue in more than one slot and some had valve glue between comb and reedplate.
I expect they’ve got better at it since those days.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Nov 17, 2017 10:47 PM
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Gnarly
2347 posts
Nov 17, 2017
10:50 PM
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dchurch, the new valves on the ProMaster are black, I think they're one piece. BeePee probably has more information on this.
I don't think you can go wrong ordering a PT from Seydel, it's his signature model.
I usually valve my own harps, just a few notes here and there.
Oh man, I forgot--one year warranty on the Suzukis!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Nov 17, 2017 10:53 PM
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dchurch
156 posts
Nov 17, 2017
11:07 PM
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Thanks, sorry about the over sized images. Ph*t*bucket really messed things up so I bailed from that service and I'm still getting the hang of new uploads...
Interesting about the valve change. I suspect that the plastic material is just more prone to condensation and sticking... when wet compared to the suede type material. I've also noticed some problems with the thin plastic deforming. You can see some indications of that in the newly resized images. :)
All of my Promasters were purchased within the past 3 years but I don't know how long they may have been in a stockroom. I've swapped some valves around and use the ultra-suede type on a other harps, but I'm okay with the Promaster valves. The Promaster is more compact and thinner in the mouth than the Seydel.
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It's about time I got around to this.
Last Edited by dchurch on Nov 18, 2017 12:25 AM
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AppalachiaBlues
84 posts
Nov 18, 2017
5:15 AM
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Japanese manufacturing culture (Monozukuri) focuses on continuous improvement. Several years ago the Promaster combs were not always flat and airtight, but I believe Suzuki has addressed the problem. The recent Promasters I bought (normal, not valved versions) are all very airtight.
Of course, some retailers may have old stock. With Amazon, you have no idea where the products come from, how old they are, or where they've been. It's best to buy from Rockin Ron, or a similarly reputable Suzuki dealer.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Nov 18, 2017 5:20 AM
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BeePee
36 posts
Nov 18, 2017
6:51 AM
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Yes, there is a BIG difference between the old Suzuki Promaster MR-350V with the white valves and the new ones with the black one-piece valves. They are much better: have a soft gel underside so are quieter, and tapered so they don't stick.
The new valves make the MR-350V an excellent harmonica, the best half-valved harp out of the box in my opinion. AppalachiaBlues is right - in the years I was working for Suzuki 2007-13 that's one thing I noticed about them: they keep making constant small improvements to their models.
If you want the black valves you're more likely to get them in popular keys with rapid turnover: C, G, A, D etc. Less popular keys will still have the old white valves. Make sure to trim the outside ones to the end of the reed slot: that will stop them sticking.
Last Edited by BeePee on Nov 20, 2017 4:33 PM
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dchurch
157 posts
Nov 18, 2017
8:32 AM
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Good to know, That also helps explain the varied reviews. It sounds like Philosofy couldn't go wrong with either harp. I see the PT is available as the Session Steel or 1847 Silver.
& Thank you, I'll do some trimming.
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It's about time I got around to this.
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wheel
570 posts
Nov 19, 2017
10:42 AM
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I've played almost a year on Seydel's Session steel and 1847 with PT Gazell valves. I practice for hours on one harmonica or play gigs on my set of half-valved harps and this valves never stuck. I love them. I've tried suzuki promaster too.
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Konstantin Kolesnichenko(Ukraine)
http://kolesnichenko-harmonica.com/
Last Edited by wheel on Nov 19, 2017 10:42 AM
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FastFourier
65 posts
Apr 20, 2018
8:50 AM
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Another vote for Seydel's Session Steel with PT Gazell valves. It's fantastic! I learned to bend the notes in a little over a week (which for me is fast). While I'm not that good at it, holding the blow bends in holes 1-6 isn't any harder than holding the usual 3-hole draw bends. A great harp!
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WinslowYerxa
1560 posts
Apr 20, 2018
11:47 AM
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Half valved diatonics generally need higher gaps than unvalved. PT's harps take this into account. The EastTop 008LS seems to as well - just tried playing mine aggressively and it responded fine.
Not sure about the valved Promaster; perhaps if you have a balky one you could profit from spending a little time doing reed profiling.
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Flbl
162 posts
Apr 21, 2018
5:38 AM
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Dchurch, the Seydel orchestra you mention, did you have valves added to the draw reeds only or the blow reeds as well.
And did it improve the bending performance?
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