PM42
41 posts
Oct 22, 2017
3:20 PM
|
Is it safe to say that a vintage amp would increase in value over time? Let's say a 1957 Princeton is for sale today at $1,500. Will it accrue value if well kept over, say, the next ten years?
(Put differently: I totally don't need this amp or to spend this much on an amp but holy hell did it sound awesome when I played it and I'm wondering if I can justify it to myself by calling it an investment... your thoughts?)
Last Edited by PM42 on Oct 22, 2017 3:33 PM
|
Goldbrick
1866 posts
Oct 22, 2017
4:42 PM
|
no one can predict the market in 10 years.
buy it for the sound and if it holds its value its a plus
|
jbone
2373 posts
Oct 22, 2017
4:48 PM
|
I think it may increase but it's a question mark.
I had a replica '59 Bassman built some 8 years ago. p2p wired, components as close to original as possible, a nice variety of speakers for both low and high volume. I kept it for 3 years and it was not making me much $$. Seemed that most bands did not want the harp guy to have much sound power in these parts! So I sold it for $800-$400 less than it cost to build and ship- and drove 3 hours to meet the guy and make the deal.
By rights, in pristine condition, it "should" have brought a couple hundred more, but the market is the market.
If I had the cash and inclination I'd buy a real deal '57 Princeton just to play through. Would I take it out? Hard choice. Would I sit on it for 10 years? I doubt it but these days we're wanderers, traveling the country every chance we get and living in a bit over 200 square feet!
----------
Reverbnation
Facebook
Youtube
Last Edited by jbone on Oct 22, 2017 7:26 PM
|
Lou
17 posts
Oct 22, 2017
6:51 PM
|
I look at instruments/gear costs a bit different my thinking is if you really dig it buy it and let's say its only worth 750 in 10 years well you got play something you really enjoyed for ten years and it only cost you $6.25 a month
|
Bass410man
160 posts
Oct 22, 2017
7:05 PM
|
I think 10 years from now, if kept in good shape and working order, it will be worth at least what you paid for it. So in that case you get to play it for free, but you may double your money also, but who knows, we
would all be rich if we did. Can't see you loosing money though.
|
Sundancer
171 posts
Oct 22, 2017
7:10 PM
|
If your goal is to make some $$$,buy a share or two of AMZN instead
Last Edited by Sundancer on Oct 22, 2017 7:11 PM
|
1847
4500 posts
Oct 22, 2017
9:59 PM
|
if your goal is to make money....
i would short amzn..... Previous Close 986.61
|
SuperBee
5052 posts
Oct 23, 2017
5:14 AM
|
I think you won’t lose, but the catch is you have to sell the amp to get the money
|
Joe_L
2794 posts
Oct 23, 2017
3:16 PM
|
You never know what the situation will be like in ten years. There was a time when I could buy blackface Champs for $75 all day long. Blackface Princetons could be had for $100. Blackface Twins were crazy expensive. No one was interested in tweed amps.
Fast forward to the current day. Blackface Champs and Princetons are crazy expensive and it's hard to give away a Twin Reverb. I wish I had purchased shipping containers of Champs and Princetons. Vintage tweed amp prices are off the charts.
I don't consider amps investments. The market is too volatile and you never know what will be popular. Plus, you'll have to find a buyer. Buy the amp because you want it, play the crap out of it, maintain and turn it over when your fun is done.
|
PM42
42 posts
Oct 23, 2017
4:39 PM
|
Thanks for the help feedback folks. I'll go back to the shop and really put the amp through its paces and see if I really love it rather than loving the idea of it.
One bummer is that the 10" speaker has been replaced with a 12" modern Jensen. I'm going to ask if the seller has the original 10".
|
timeistight
2229 posts
Oct 23, 2017
5:22 PM
|
The original speaker was actually 8" inches. The Princeton didn't get the 10" speaker upgrade until 1961's brown Tolex model, also upped the power from 4.5 to watts.
The '57 Princeton is really more like a Champ in a bigger cabinet.
|
bonedog569
1093 posts
Oct 23, 2017
7:08 PM
|
A quick look in the 2009 price guide I have at hand shows BF Princetons going for $1,600-$1900 back then - (in very good-excellent condition) Current prices on Reverb.com start at $1599. If your amp is in good shape and you love your tone through it- (and can afford it without engendering a divorce battle), - then I say go for it. Chances are pretty good it will hold it's value and could very well appreciate.
https://reverb.com/p/blackface-fender-princeton-reverb
----------
|
Joe_L
2795 posts
Oct 23, 2017
7:54 PM
|
I would not pay that much unless the amp is original and from you’ve described, it is not.
|
Bass410man
161 posts
Oct 23, 2017
8:10 PM
|
Yea man, hearing now that it does not only have the original speaker, but also the wrong size, cuts the price in half, as far as I am concerned. There will be damage to the cabinet now, from putting a larger speaker in, it's no where near original, so I would leave it there.
|
indigo
396 posts
Oct 23, 2017
9:35 PM
|
IF you can afford it,and it sounds good to you,buy it.
Worrying as to whether or not it's a good 'investment' or not,is to be frank,ridiculous.
Do you buy a car on the basis of what it will be worth in 10 years or because it pushes your buttons now.
Go on treat yourself.
Last Edited by indigo on Oct 23, 2017 9:35 PM
|
shakeylee
704 posts
Oct 23, 2017
9:51 PM
|
I remember when you couldn’t give a Princeton away.
----------
www.shakeylee.com
|
6SN7
741 posts
Oct 24, 2017
5:38 AM
|
@PM42- couple thoughts. That 1500$ is low compared to other tweed Princetons of that era that are selling on Reverb. Those amps had an 8" Jensen in the 1950's. Personally, I think the 12" is too large for that cabinet, I think the 10" is a better fit
If the speaker and baffle have been changed, I can only imagine the other OEM parts that have been replaced. Caps? Transformers? These determine the value of an amp.
I had my eye on a tweed Princeton but decided to build a Mojo kit instead as I wanted a 10" speaker and not an 8" speaker. I think it's ridiculous to spent big $$ on a tweed amp and then replace it with a different speaker and alter the baffle board. Personally, I like my kit build better than a tweed, but hey, that's me.
I have bought and sold 1950's amp for years. Only once did I make the "big kill" when I sold a 1959 Bassman for 4500$ in 1994 that I had bought for 700$ in the early 80's. It was all original except I had it retweeded. Other than that deal, I have broke even on my other amps.
My biggest headache with buying 1950's amps is the caps are usually leaking/shot and need to be replaced. The speaker cones are usually bad, so they have to be re-coned. And then there is stuff like the 2 prong plug and death cap that need to be replaced. So, there is usually a cost to make them sound tiptop after you spend the initial big cash.
There is currently a Gibson GA45 for sale on the FB page "Harmonica Gear", for 1000$. Check it out, that amp is a fantastic harp amp (I have one, it's like a "mini me bassman", 15 watts with 4x8" speakers). That, IMHO, is a steal compared to the tweed Princeton. Tweed fenders are always going to command the big bucks.
On the smaller side, I have been on the lookout for a Valco/Supro/English 5 watt amp with a 6x9". Those amps are louder than a similar Champ with a 8 or 10" speaker. The problem is, those oval speakers cones are usually shot and you can't get them reconed today. Good luck.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Oct 24, 2017 5:44 AM
|
PM42
43 posts
Oct 24, 2017
6:46 AM
|
Thanks for all the thoughts, folks. I think I'll pass on this amp: for he price, is want it much closer to original.
The hunt continues... which of course isn't a bad thing: hunting is fun.
|
jbone
2374 posts
Oct 24, 2017
7:34 AM
|
Look up Sligo Amps, Steve Clark. He used to and may still build amps as close to vintage real deal as possible. He may be able to build something brand new but with TLC, that will thrill you. He built me a '59 Bassman replica.
----------
Reverbnation
Facebook
Youtube
|
Barley Nectar
1318 posts
Oct 25, 2017
5:40 PM
|
Well, if anything holds it's value, it will be a vintage Fender, esp a good studio example. If something has "that sound" for you. It is worth it if is within reach. Now don't get me wrong cause I'm a cheep bastard but if you want it, you should have it. That's the American Way...LOL
|
Sundancer
172 posts
Oct 27, 2017
8:43 AM
|
Hey 1847 - sure hope you didn’t short AMZN. but if you did, maybe you can turn this disastrous experience into a blues song?!? Woke up this mornin’ ...
|
Andrew
1705 posts
Oct 27, 2017
9:04 AM
|
I'm no good at this kind of thing, but a few thoughts occur.
Mainly, what is the future of tubes/valve-manufacturing? You could email the companies that do it to see what they suggest about their future.
But it may be that plenty of tubes are stock-piled somewhere. Do some research on them. Maybe buy a dozen of each type in the amp to go with it and to sell with it to give a future buyer confidence that they aren't buying something that's past its sell-by-date.
Hunt around for as many identical amps as you can possibly find and buy the cheapest.
Why do I stick my nose in? Don't ask me - that's the only thing I don't have an opinion on, lol!
Something that occurs to me about "all original" amps is that if the speaker cones are original, then no-one has played it or will play it, except to demonstrate that it works, so I suppose the tubes will always have to work.
(I bought a short-wave radio in the 80s for £600. I saw the same one on Ebay for £50 a few years back.
----------
Andrew.
-----------------------------------------
Last Edited by Andrew on Oct 27, 2017 9:13 AM
|
LSC
767 posts
Nov 04, 2017
10:36 AM
|
Market for vintage gear of pretty much all types has gone flat and will probably remain so. The demographic was basically baby boomers who in their later years could afford to buy stuff they always dreamed about. Those guys are either selling off as they get too old or they actually die. There is not really a generation coming behind with the same passion and desire to replace them.
If you do want vintage for whatever reason look for amps that are relatively cheap and will at least hold their own or perhaps increase as they get discovered. Gibson's were a good example of a brand that languished until folks realized they were as good as Fender in many ways and way cheaper. Then as the word got out and demand increased the prices went up. Still relative good value for money though. Valco amps and Valcos under a different badge are another similar brand in that regard. BTW, Vintage47 sells very good versions of the oval speakers.
Condition and originality are everything to collectors of anything. Amps are no different. Speaker swaps and reconed speakers in vintage amps are common. Reconed original speakers do not drop value much if at all. Wholesale swaps a bit more. Often guys will swap out the original perfectly good speaker but keep it and sell both with the amp. How much a swap drops price depends on what the new speaker is.
Recovering drops prices a lot. People pay for those rips and tears over a pristine new covering. However, if you just want a "player" electronic condition i.e. reliability should be your first concern.
Bottom line is the advise already give. If you love it, can afford it, and the price is right, just buy the damn thing. Odds are way down the road when you're using a walker there will be somebody who will want it just as much as you did and pay a decent price. Pretty much a no lose situation.
----------
LSC
Last Edited by LSC on Nov 04, 2017 10:39 AM
|
