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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > 1961: second oldest instance of live recorded ...
1961: second oldest instance of live recorded ...
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Martin
1292 posts
Sep 28, 2017
7:32 AM
... amplified blues harp? (First is James Cotton on Muddy´s Newport concert.)
I don´t know, and I´d like to be disproved.
This record has been out many years, and it´s interesting that Slim sings and plays through the same mic -- making the harp sound rather good, but perhaps not the vocals.

dougharps
1582 posts
Sep 28, 2017
7:51 AM
Earlier PAs were not solid state and used tubes. When cranked up in a live venue they would begin to distort.

I suspect that they were pushing their PA for volume, not that he sang through a guitar amp at this festival. I don't know if this is the second example, but I think it sounds great!

My favorite harp amp is a 35 watt PA head made for grocery stores, etc.
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Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Sep 28, 2017 7:52 AM
waltertore
3015 posts
Sep 28, 2017
8:04 AM
they were not playing loud. the drummer is playing the old style of holding the sticks where fingers/wrist/light hitting on the skin vs. today where they sledge hammer it. The PA they had at this gig was probably beat to hell. I began playing clubs in the 70's and PA systems in small venues sucked. It was a nightmare of hearing yourself on vocals/harp as I played sang through the same mic. I just saw the Rolling Stones Altamont concert and it reminded me of how terrible it was to play to large crowds from a stage listening perspective. I think the Beatles stopped doing live gigs because the sound was so bad onstage?

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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

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Last Edited by waltertore on Sep 28, 2017 8:06 AM
Grey Owl
834 posts
Sep 28, 2017
8:23 AM
You could be right Walter, but I think the biggest factor was the unbelievable sound from the teeny hoppers! I remember seeing the Stones in 1964 at a smallish venue and I simply couldn't hear the band for the screaming fans. It was a complete waste of time.

Grey Owl
YouTube
waltertore
3016 posts
Sep 28, 2017
11:03 AM
That was the norm for rock and roll. Jimmy Carl Black, the drummer for Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention, played with me on and off for 8 years. He shared how bad the sound was at big venues/festivals back then and you played on memory more than sound. Most clubs in the 70's that had PA's put the least amount of money into them. They were more into seating, pool tables, booze, nice bar. I played for years before experiencing monitors. The predominantly African American blues clubs were the worst for sound. Some had converted record players for PA's. That Slim Harpo recording definitely caught the live vibe and showed how little difference there was from studio recordings of blues then and live gigs. Now it is overdubbing, adding more instruments than the band uses live, etc..
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0walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

Smiling With Hope Pizza-pizza with a social cause

my videos

Martin
1293 posts
Sep 28, 2017
2:56 PM
It´s probably right that he sang and played through the PA. (The key word was "amplified".)
Wasn´t that how Little Walter et al did it. No fussing over amps and mics, just grab what´s there. And PA:s that reacted to being overdriven in the same way this one does would be a tender mercy for many a harmonica player.
waltertore
3017 posts
Sep 28, 2017
3:49 PM
Harp players pretty much used the PA, especially the older touring guys. Charlie Musselwhite was a great example of this - drove his car to the gig with a harp box and used the PA and the mic they had. Junior Wells was the same. Today's scene makes me chuckle with all the gear a harp player drags around.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

Smiling With Hope Pizza-pizza with a social cause

my videos

1847
4471 posts
Sep 29, 2017
10:52 AM
in the paul butterfield film i seem to remember there was a short clip from the very early sixties.
indigo
390 posts
Sep 29, 2017
8:42 PM
Well this is definitely amped(to the max) harp.
Recorded 1954 in New orleans.
1847
4474 posts
Sep 30, 2017
8:48 AM
yes that is definitely amped...

the key word here "live" recording.
Martin
1296 posts
Oct 01, 2017
7:46 AM
@indigo: The interest here is in getting a glimpse of how amplified blues harmonica it *actually sounded live* during those years. If someone suddenly presented the world with a concert recording of Little Walter from, say, 1955, it would cause reactions among quite a few of us chaps.
AppalachiaBlues
77 posts
Oct 01, 2017
8:16 AM
The Papa Lightfoot recording has uniform distortion. So the harp is distorted in the same way as his voice (and anything else played in front of the mic). It does not sound like the harp player is cupping the mic to create a seal and compression.

When James Cotton, Little Walter and the other pioneers of the 50s-60s plugged bullet mics into guitar amps, I guess the hand cupping was also part of that innovation.

Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Oct 01, 2017 8:25 AM
indigo
392 posts
Oct 01, 2017
2:59 PM
Yeah my bad...really missed the point of the first post.
Agree that a Little Walter live concert recording would be a great find
1847
4487 posts
Oct 11, 2017
7:55 AM
snooky pryor was the first to play amplified. he would play on maxwell street.

i have a recording from maxwell street i can't remember if he is on it.

but i found this online. maxwell street

Last Edited by 1847 on Oct 11, 2017 8:01 AM
Martin
1308 posts
Oct 11, 2017
8:55 AM
@Winslow: Is that JLW bio a worthwhile read? (I assume it´s the one by an author w/ a Japanese name.)
There´s a nice trend in that biographies of various blues guya are cropping up, but the last one I read really wasn´t that engaging ...
Little roger
191 posts
Oct 14, 2017
1:30 PM
Yep the JLW bio is definitely worth a read. I thoroughly enjoyed it. There are a few inaccuracies that I pointed out and which will be changed in an upcoming edition. But I learnt a fair bit.

There are of course Little Walter live recordings. I have two tracks from the early 60s at Peppers. Forgive me if they were mentioned somewhere above.

Last Edited by Little roger on Oct 14, 2017 1:32 PM
Martin
1309 posts
Oct 15, 2017
4:46 PM
@Little roger: Thank you, I will get a copy ot the JLW biography.

Little Walter live tracks? That´s news to me. On what record did you find them?
Little roger
192 posts
Oct 15, 2017
9:45 PM
There is the Otis Rush live album with Walter - dreadful I'm afraid.

And two live tracks at Pepper's

Here they are for a limited time only ;-) Both awful I'm afraid but still interesting historically I suppose. And if you are looking to hear his live sound - also pretty dreadful.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c65ig4prt1ql86t/Off%20The%20Wall.mp3?dl=0

and

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fu49rimtajma7jf/Peppers%20Thing.mp3?dl=0
Martin
1310 posts
Oct 16, 2017
5:45 AM
Thank you Little Roger.
Yes, I had forgotten that Otis Rush album -- I remember I sold it right after listening to it. But those other tracks were new to me, and not included in Dirks et al discography, as far as I could see.

He is not on top of his game anymore here, and yes, the sound is lacklustre.
Does it say on the record what year exactly this was taped?
Little roger
193 posts
Oct 16, 2017
5:52 AM
You’re welcome.

It just says “early 60s”. Pepper’s Lounge. I have no further info except it is with the two Myers, Fred Below and JT Brown is on the sax (a popular recording sax man at that time despite his strange vibrato)

www.rogerwade.de

Last Edited by Little roger on Oct 16, 2017 5:53 AM
Martin
1311 posts
Oct 16, 2017
2:10 PM
So it´s this record, https://www.popsike.com/Little-Walter-Earl-Hooker-Live-Peppers-Lounge/4702254714.html? (But no JT Brown there ...?) Anyway, interesting.
1847
4495 posts
Oct 16, 2017
5:20 PM
(But no JT Brown there ...?)

you can hear a sax on there. it's not a great recording, but what the heck, they did not have a zoom recorder back then. i'd bet it sounded great if you were there having a beer.
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Little roger
194 posts
Oct 17, 2017
2:56 AM
My recordings are on an LP from Encore. The rest is standard stuff but I bought it for the two live tracks.


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