Do harp players charge or take harp players for mentorship nowadays? would be really benefical for me if someone here could skype me like once a day and tell me if im doing licks and phrases right for free
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 31, 2017 1:17 PM
Taking on an apprentice is a commitment. The obvious question is: What would you give the mentor/master in return? There's a long and illustrious tradition within the blues world of an older, more experienced player taking on a younger, less experienced player and showing him stuff. But that tradition, with good reason, involves a mutual commitment: the younger person sweeps out the dojo, drives the car, runs errands, etc.
Nothing is for free, in other words. If you'd sincerely like the sort of guidance you're asking for, you should take at least a moment and ponder the question of what you could give back in return. It certainly doesn't have to be money.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jul 31, 2017 1:29 PM
I'm not sure if he's on this forum, but I used to do a weekly skype session with Ronnie Shellist and I can't say enough good things about it. He showed me new licks, helped me with technique and I also sent him recordings in advance so we could critique together. I know @mooncat also does them. He's on your right now, but I'm planning on connecting with him once it's over.
I think a free/social group would be cool. Maybe a scheduled Google Hangout or something where players take turns playing, asking questions would work. That would either be cool or an absolute train wreck.
Im pretty strapped on cash right now since you know, quite hard for high school kids to get jobs around here aside from busking so i guess if anyone is in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada i could do errands
Or you know, i could probably pay you back when I turn 18 and get a credit card, the internet doesnt accept debit unfortunately.
Also @Arrick, that could be a good idea, not sure if anyone from here would purposely wreck such a place though
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 31, 2017 1:36 PM
I should clarify, these were paid lessons. I am his student, not his apprentice. The big thing for me was it gave me conversations about "me" rather than techniques or licks. Having a scheduled lesson in the future let me build a list of questions. The burden of accountability lies with me though. He didn't skype me daily to help. I Skype him weekly to learn (and paid for the time).
Have you tried recording yourself and breaking it down later? You would be surprised how much you can notice and correct on your own if you listen critically. It's impossible for me to play and listen critically at the same time but if I listen to it afterwards I immediately hear areas to work on.
If you use SoundCloud (free) you can add notes and comments in the timeline as you listen. It's really helpful IMO.
Last Edited by Arrick on Jul 31, 2017 1:41 PM
Yeah, i have but id still love to do the apprenticeship thing, ive been considering ot for a while but harp players in Hamilton, Ontario are rare and im saving up to permanently move to Chicago when I turn 18 so i can try to follow what the folks from Mississippi did
Anyways, when i do record myself, i absolutely hate it haha, i never come close to getting good at structuring around a 12 bar properly, even with a band it sounds messy and choppy, tone usually sucks even tho i tongue block and im pretty sure a 45 trill isnt the best way to start every throw down blues solo ever
I have a soundcloud of my recsnt open jam but thr only part i like is when i do a proper solo at the 17 min mark
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 31, 2017 1:56 PM
Not liking listening to yourself recorded is not unusual. What I hear when I play compared to what I hear on playback seem like two different things. Granted, my harp playing is a work in progress, but the same thing happens when I record myself singing. I cringe and believe me what I have on youtube is only whats left of deleted recordings from what used to be there. And I still may delete more.
I recently sang for a crowd and I felt really proud. While I was on stage it went over well. People approached me later and talked to me, asking questions etc and I felt great. A couple of months later my wife showed me a video a friend of hers had recorded that night. My wife said "that was good, don't ya think?" I hated it!
However I have found that with recording, that works both ways because if I keep deleting and re-recording I am practicing! I once did about 30 recordings of a song until I felt it was right. Now that's a workout! But think about it. If you don't like what you hear and you keep trying, just think of how good it will be once you finally do like it! Right now I can sit in my chair and play my harp like a front porch blues or walk around the room playing and I feel it's sounding pretty good. When I listen recorded (as in my recent thread) I think it sucks.
I think were getting OT here, if anyone is near Hamilton, Ontario and is willing to have a 16 year old kiss your ass all day for harmonica tips than feel free to hmu
@Tommy i think its because youre not getting professionally recorded haha, phones distort stuff and peoples ears are better judges then a phone
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 31, 2017 2:44 PM
The beginner forum is usually available to offer critiques, corrections and tips; if you post a recording. ---------- If you don't cut it while it's hot......
This subject reminds me of the 1972 movie, 'Kung Fu' with David Carradine. A young Cain wanted to be a Shaolin monk. He was the only perspective student to sit outside the Shaolin Temple despite any and all types of weather.The Temple master observed all this and he was finally admitted. He never even learned Kung Fu his first few years. He had to display commitment, run the errands, learn Buddhist philosophies along with the Tao. Only after he proved himself worthy, he was taught Kung Fu. Not too different from an earlier post stating once a mentor is found, he must prove himself worthy to be a disciple.
Last Edited by hot4blues on Jul 31, 2017 3:55 PM
There are a few harp players in my city, but im not sure if theyre good enough to teach me anything since they sorta sound like me lol, most of them lip purse or rarely use tongue which concerns me
i kinda try to make up my raw musicality by playing with lots of soul and bouncing up and down the stage and moving alot which gets people in the groove a lot
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 31, 2017 3:59 PM
How much do you want to learn? My advice is if you are really driven by the urge to learn/make this your life you have to move to a place where the music scene is rich in what you are seeking. There are no guarantees with mentorships. I walked, hitch hiked, around the world searching out people I could learn from. Skype and internet are good for making technically great musicians but to be a true musical person one has to dive into the life. One can never simulate being in the flesh with musicians and the scene. Just my 2 cents worth from a guy that mentored under/played with/lived with guys like Louisiana Red, Sonny Terry, Lightning Hopkins, and a lot of other blues souls. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Im willing to save up enough money to move to Chicago with a 5 piece set of Seydel 1847s and finding the best damn harp player there and learning every little thing im missing, I can make cool sounds but i need proper structure to make it sound right, hell id rather hobo around the country and busk than spend the rest of my life working as a mechanic or whatever my parents want me to be here. I play everyday after work on SBWI songs and every thursday and fridays i play with a blues band learning every thing i can from a band so i could become a band leader one day. Just need someone to point out the little things for me and il be on my way
I wonder if US border guards accept transients and buskers
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 31, 2017 4:26 PM
you have a dream. That is the key. Trust your dreams and they will always lead you to a wonderful life. Don't let others instill their fears on you. We all only have one shot at life here on earth. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
"Have you tried recording yourself and breaking it down later? You would be surprised how much you can notice and correct on your own if you listen critically. It's impossible for me to play and listen critically at the same time but if I listen to it afterwards I immediately hear areas to work on."
I second this comment by Arrick. Critical listening to oneself is incredibly important--especially if you're listening critically to other, better harp players at the same time. Something about recording yourself and then hearing yourself played back distances you from your own playing; it puts you in the ring with other, better players.
I did a lot of that in the mid-80s. I had a boom box, so I was taping myself on cassettes. NOT for public consumption! It's a good way of measuring your progress. Record yourself and date the recording. Then put it away. If you're practicing steadily, you can listen to the recording as soon as six months later and hear ways in which you've already improved.
ejakon, I think that you would benefit from a couple of lessons with a guy like Ronnie. Even on your budget, you could probably scrape together the cash for that. Record the lessons. Let Ronnie, or Dennis Gruenling, listen to what you're doing and give you an assessment. Then you'll have some specific things to work on. In fact, ASK them for specific things to work on. No need for a lesson a week. Just pay for a couple, then go.
ejakon, I'm going to disagree. I've read the posts up to the point at which you made that comment. What I see--apart from my first post--is older, more experienced players mentoring you. Isn't that what you wanted?
One very important lesson I learned as a harp player, but also as a human being, is that when you ask for help (as you have), it doesn't always take exactly the form that you envisioned. But that's not necessarily a problem with the help. Sometimes it's a problem with your vision.
Sometimes, in other words, what needs to be learned is right there for you, but you haven't yet recognized that that is what you need to learn.
I'll give you a good example. A few years ago I was assembling a new Satan and Adam album, and I contracted with Jerry Jemmott, the legendary bass player and an old bandmate of Sterling Magee's, to overdub a bass part on "Thunky Fing Rides Again."
I sent the raw track to Jerry. He worked up a bass part. I drove 170 miles down to a studio in Jackson, MS, where Jerry was waiting. The engineer played the track and Jerry laid down his part.
When it was played back, I was nonplussed. It wasn't at all what I'd expected. It just didn't immediately grab me. I didn't know what to say. I'd had one thing in mind; he'd played something else. But he was the great Jerry Jemmott, the "Bass Master," and an incredibly nice and friendly guy, and so I said, "Sure, that's fine. That works for me." I paid him--a lot!--and we shook hands and I took a couple of burned copies of the song home with me.
I played it five times in a row in the car as I headed north. By the time I stopped for gas, 20 minutes later, I was completely sold on what he'd done. I thought it was brilliant, in fact.
The bass part was....what it was. That's all it had ever been. It was exactly right. The problem was me: my preconception about what the bass part, and the overall sound, should be. There was a deep wisdom in what Jerry had done, but when I first heard it, it was ahead of where I was. I sort of knew that, or at least I'd learned, by that point in my career, that that was a possibility. I trusted the process. That, in fact, was why I had played the track + bass five time in a row. It took only 20 minutes to hear the wisdom in Jerry's performance--the fact that it was, in fact, exactly what I've driven down to Jackson in the hope of getting.
Twenty minutes and a reeducation. That's pretty quick.
Adam, good posts and I agree. The OT comment came right after my post and I felt it was more or less due to my comments. But (and maybe I was a bit too verbose) I was trying to imply the same thing as you just did about recording yourself and listening back critically. Even though (as he stated) he hates hearing himself. I used myself as an example.
One of the scariest steps is recording your stuff and posting it and asking for an honest critique. It's not quite one on one, but you can get a fair amount of feedback that way, and from more than one person, and in turn, when you see other people asking, return the favor (people notice that).
Do skype lessons when you can afford them. You can buy prepaid credit cards to pay for them. Look for YouTube lessons and go through them. Learn what you can that doesn't need direct feedback- that will leave more time when you do have lessons for the stuff you can't figure out on your own.
You might also check the local music stores. They often have community boards that let people post asking for or offering local lessons.
I'm another harmonica teaching and author who teaches both in person and online. You can check me out at winslowyerxa.com.
It's great that you're so committed. I had to teach myself back home in Vancouver, BC, and I did what has been suggested – listened real hard to records and tried to emulate what I heard, saw the greats when they came to town and asked them questions, and recorded myself.
I have to say, recording yourself is an amazing tool. Not liking what you hear is a GREAT starting point. Listening back, you can pinpoint what you don't like, figure out why, and then take steps to improve it.
If you're talking about solo structure, listen to good solos and ask yourself - what made that so good? Sometimes it's the specific notes, the way a lick is stated rhythmically, like a wells-poken orator or comedian, but sometimes it's the play of silence between phrases, or re-stating something in a different way or with a different placement. One guy who does an excellent job of breaking that down is David Barrett. He has a highly structured course at bluesharmonica.com that addresses solo structuring in a comprehensive way.
About getting into the US. I did easily because my wife of four years was a US citizen. You can cross the border as a tourist - remember, nowadays you have to have a passport. But once you get across, you can't work legally without immigrant status, which is very hard to get.
But let's say you make it to Chicago. Joe Filisko is the guy to see. =========== Winslow
haha well, i get what i asked for, thanks for the advice yall. Is anyone here willing to watch my weekly open jam recordings all the time? thats why (20 mins long) thats sorta why i came here for, forgot to clarify that. Just wanted someone with the patience to sit with the recording and go to all the time stamps i put on it and criticize it
I gave a scholarship to harmonica player in my area. He's already gigging and has a good ear. I'm teaching him chromatic, Diatonic theory and harmony. ----------
Ejakon, maybe break it down into slightly smaller bits than 20 minutes at a time, both to get more responses and because it can be hard to comment on 20 minutes of stuff at once.
Lot's of people have posted stuff to get feedback. Generally speaking, it's important to add in the post headline, or right up front that you want constructive criticism so people know that you aren't just looking to share stuff. I'd try maybe starting with 5 minute samples, just because it's easier to comment on one piece at a time.
Here's some advice, look for an article written by Jason Ricci about the realities of being a professional musician. It's a hard road to travel. It isn't for everyone.
If you are looking for a mentor, good luck finding that. Great players scuffle for gigs. Many don't have a tremendous amount of time for protégés. It may seem like a lot of fun. It's a 24x7 job. It's work.
When you get where you want to be, it's even more work. Lots of time on the phone. Lots of rejection. Lots of shitty gigs in shitty places. Don't believe me? Read Hummel's book. Hummel works harder than many of the guys I know. He's almost always on the phone.
I'm gonna echo what Joe said above. Jason's article was epic the first time I read it and Joe's comment jogged my memory to find it so I could read it again today. It most definitely stands the test of time. Here it is in all it's unvarnished, unadulterated, fat-free glory:
Locally, I've become friendly with some musicians who indulge me by letting me sit in with them at gigs for a few songs from time to time. I've also managed some one-on-one time hanging out with them to jam a bit, learn some things. They are tremendous musicians. Can play anything, any style, almost as soon as hearing it, Truly amazing. They ALL have full time jobs to earn a living. The music thing is a hobby (albeit a very serious one) for them. At one time they all had the dream and managed various levels of success. One guy, guitar/vocals/bandleader type had a run back in the late 80s /early 90s where he was able to make a decent living (and have a lot of fun) for several years. No one on this forum would even recognize his name. It wasn't sustainable. I'm not saying someone shouldnt go for it today. Just go into it with your eyes open. Jason's article will open them. His words ring as true today as when he wrote that piece, some eight plus years ago.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Aug 07, 2017 11:19 AM
I'm in Hamilton 4 days a week working on an urban farm in the east end. If want to pull some weeds I'd be willing to show you a thing or two. e-mail me @ kham27@gmail.com You'd also be welcome to do some sweat equity for free admission to the Shared Harvest Harmonica Retreat the last week-end of every June on our farm. Here's the link from this years retreat. https://www.sharedharvestfarm.ca/harmonica-retreat.html
I've been following this thread and several others started by ejakon. Kham, your offer is really cool. Thanks for chiming in. ---------- Ridge's YouTube
