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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > playing sober??
playing sober??
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snowman
277 posts
Jul 27, 2017
9:11 AM
I commented on a previous post “ best alive’ and went off on a tangent
----so I deleted this part from that post;
This is brown nosing, but I don’t care-
When someone is use to singing, playing guitar, playing harp, playing any instrument in front of people (audience)-While Drinking or drugging or both together—

-It is a difficult transition to playing sober in front of people; at first u stink -but then u adjust and start playing, way better than u did drunk or high
–U realish the rush of “laying it on the line” with no crutch—u also realize how lucky u are to be paid for what u would do for free

I have a cd of a “very famous blues guitarist, n singer’” mentioning the same phenomenon—although I’m small time, I experienced this, as well

Why relevant to MBH -I look at u guys n gals as friends who love the blues—in order for some of us to continue listening, playing the blues and learning to play better thanks in part to MBH—
We have to keep our wits about us and to encourage fellow members to do the same

I was stoked to hear him joke about his sobriety---
pIus I was stoked to hear, he’s still sober
It means he’ll be around to listen to—learn from—and be around to post

I don’t idolize great players, I simply admire them for their hard work and tenacity—

This post was meant to encourage one of OUR great players TO;

KEEP POSTING AND “ DOING WHAT YR DOING”

Im going to “bluesapalooza” First time hearing u live---Looking forward to it

Hope this wasn’t “out of line”
jbone
2332 posts
Jul 27, 2017
3:12 PM
For me the journey was a bit different. I was trying to learn while I was under influences, and I just could not learn. I have actually come to realize that my challenges were deeper than I had thought. Looking back I think I have been ADHD my whole life and it went unnoticed and untreated. Along the way I developed addictions which came close to killing me more than once.
I hit bottom 30 years and change ago, and began the sober life. After a few years I began really trying to learn to play harp like my heroes. It was still a long trek for me. Once the chemicals were all gone I was still having a hard time actually getting the idea.

Some 20 odd years ago I began going to jams and ended up in several bands and duos. I was forced to learn then. Along with harp I had to be the singer in a couple of outfits. It was seat of my pants for a stretch there.

I kind of surrendered to being a student, not so much in the traditional sense, but I began to see the bigger picture and treat learning about my desired craft as a student.

So before I began the sober life I was just flat not teachable. After I began it was still a struggle. Still is some days.

About 2 years ago I had to face the fact that I had a challenge I had never suspected. At this stage of the game, at 62, meds are just not an option. But life has gotten more focused and calmer since retirement and the ultimate road trip/tour. Being able to focus more on music, lyrics, playing out, jamming with my partner Jolene, has brought a very good change.

Summing up, I doubt I would ever have gotten anywhere when I was a drunk/stoner/all that. Some people can, I couldn't. So getting sober was my best path to realize my desire to be something of a musician.
And here we are, almost 4 months into the tour that will never end, full time on the road with my best gal ever, who is also my best music partner ever. It has taken some planning and doing, but here we are. I am at my best these days. Could never have happened with my old bad habits.

This forum's denizens have taught me quite a bit. You guys and the occasional gal have given me a lot, along of course with Mr. Gussow.

Meeting life head on and having a resource like this one and some others have brought me across the country and very deep into a music avocation. The journey continues.

If you have a problem with substances, alcohol, gambling, etc., there are answers. If you are blocked from realizing a dream, music or otherwise, you can find your way. It's a transition for real, but it is into the light.

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kudzurunner
6311 posts
Jul 27, 2017
6:13 PM
To each his own. I completely sympathize and empathize with players who realize that they are addicts and make the choice to go clean. That's fine.

I have gone clean once or twice, and I remember playing one of my most feelingful recorded solos stone cold clean and fresh.

By and large, when I'm in the studio, I have had alcohol in my veins. Usually not a lot, but sometimes a lot.

When I look back over my career, one moment that I will always remember is my first day in the studio with Mr. Satan, when we drank quite a bit of Stoly and played our asses off. I brought the booze with the specific desire of inciting mayhem.

I am here to tell you that when we recorded "I Want You" and "C. C. Rider" on a rare February day in 1990, we had been drinking. But we had also been playing a LOT on the streets, we were incredibly happy to finally be entering a studio, and we were extremely jacked at the moment we recorded the second take of "I Want You." So we had a LOT pushing back against the liquor-induced high. A hell of a lot of hard time on the street bandstand and a lot of adrenalin keeping our edge intact. THIS IS IMPORTANT. Adrenalin sometimes needs to be counteracted with alcohol. Or at least that is one good way of dealing with the jitters. If you know what you're doing, and you're careful, it can work very well indeed.

My solo starts around the 2:33 point--that's the lead in--and I would encourage those who DON'T think alcohol belongs in recording studios (or on stages) with blues musicians to listen to what I played. I still think it's the most balls-to-the-wall, most shapely solo I've ever played. Period. I don't hear a single note I would change. (I'm responding to everything that Sterling is throwing down--perhaps because we were breathing the same sort of alcohol-sponsored fire.) That's just me--but I have to go to my grave with "me," so that means something to me. You may feel differently. To each his own tapenade recipe.

I Want You and C. C. Rider

It's a high-wire act, deploying booze in the studio and/or on the gig. But it can sometimes lead to good results.

On the other hand: Jimmy Reed sometimes ended up in the gutter out in front of the club, stone drunk, out of it. So there might be problems.

Me, I tend to spend too much time in my head, and I'm pretty self-regulating. So it makes sense that a guy like me would sometimes need to drink something that disengages the governor (I'm using a Briggs & Stratton analogy) and helps me let 'er rip. A lot of musicians don't have that problem. They have the other problem.

Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jul 27, 2017 6:23 PM
Irish Soul
50 posts
Jul 27, 2017
7:10 PM
Physician heal thyself.....it's all about knowing your own body and mind and when enough is enough. If you need or want it...it's a choice.

Some people can't....just like I can't do certain things and they can on a harp.

I partied one night when I was still a medic...I called it early, quit drinking and went home only to find out another medic that had "the other problem" didn't wake up the next day. I was 22 and he was 24. I didn't know he was that bad off or I'd never have left.

If I had a lesson with say...Adam or Jason....I likely would have a couple drinks before or I can promise I'd play terribly and retain very little just from nerves. I drink at times and have never denied it, but try to walk the line.

So it's a double edged sword...it's like walking a high wire with no net....done correctly it can be a very cool thing....one wrong move and it's coins on the eyes and a pine box.

Like Adam I spend a lot of time in my head and that for me isn't always good, but I often get some pretty good ideas as well.

Stay safe all, whatever you choose.
Tuckster
1622 posts
Jul 27, 2017
7:21 PM
Sober is overrated. No,seriously I believe there are people cursed with what I call addictive personality. These people can't be around drugs/alchohol,there's some part of their brain that lacks control. I'm lucky to not have that problem. The only time I drink is when I'm playing music or listening to music. Even then,about 3 drinks over the course of the night is my limit. 1 drink before I play relaxes the jitters. any more than that and my playing suffers.
jbone
2333 posts
Jul 27, 2017
8:37 PM
I'm one of those who has no brakes once the car is on the road. Sometimes I would like to take the edge off but it's not an option unless I am sure I want to self destruct. Which I definitely don't. Cleaning up is at the core of every good thing in my life, music included. For the record, I hold no ill feelings for those who can drink or otherwise with seeming impunity. In fact if it weren't for social lubricants, many of us may not be out making a buck with music!
The world has lost A LOT OF GREAT talents due to overindulgence. This is the way of the world. I do count as good fortune the ones who have come back from that edge. I count my own life, every day of it, as my good fortune.

A funny thing happens sometimes. I get in "the Zone" and sort of blank out. While we're playing someplace. After the gig I remember little of what I did. I have been told it was good and I just don't recall it. Brain chemistry? Metaphysics? I don't know. But I DO know the moments I am all the way there can be a total gas.


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dougharps
1523 posts
Jul 28, 2017
8:05 AM
Tuckster, your approach to use and music is very similar to my approach.

Moderation in all things, including moderation in moderation at times.

If someone knows it messes them up, I greatly respect those who take action and stop indulging, whatever the substance may be.

If someone is oblivious to their problem, I hope they become aware and change their ways before they or someone else pays a price.

On an individual basis, if substance use is causing problems in life, it needs to be addressed. For some, this means stopping any use at all.

Humans have used alcohol and substances throughout history. Some can use without serious problems impacting them or others, and some end up abusing and must stop using to live life without hurting themselves or others.
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Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Jul 28, 2017 8:06 AM
slaphappy
304 posts
Jul 28, 2017
8:55 AM
it would be interesting to hear Mooncat's take on this subject.

In general, alcohol is very quick to affect the tongue muscle (why people slur their words when drunk). It seems like a particularly risky substance for harmonica players to flirt with. So I never have more than one beer if I'm out performing in public and if I'm getting paid I don't even have one beer.

Snowman, if you're on a sober path I truly wish you all the best with it. Lot's of people in my life have been affected by drugs & alcohol. Some have turned it around, some are still struggling. Some aren't around anymore.

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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!

Last Edited by slaphappy on Jul 28, 2017 8:57 AM
tmf714
3084 posts
Jul 28, 2017
9:38 AM
"Sober is overrated. No,seriously I believe there are people cursed with what I call addictive personality. These people can't be around drugs/alchohol,there's some part of their brain that lacks control."

WRONG- its a disease called alcoholism-I lived it and after 27 years of sobriety I can assure you that's what it is.

Lacking control over other things like food or shopping /betting can be called that-but the disease called alchololism is very serious.
Tuckster
1635 posts
Jul 28, 2017
10:24 AM
TMF- Not arguing the point but maybe the brain is part of the disease. Glad you're clean and sober. I count my blessing that I'm not afflicted with it.
Martin
1208 posts
Jul 28, 2017
11:47 AM
I practically never play stone cold sober -- if there´s an audience involved.
I drink a lot, but I would never perform drunk.
There´s an important distinction to be made there. Alcohol is way to important to me to be careless with it.
nacoran
9541 posts
Jul 28, 2017
12:27 PM
I'm not a drinker. Pretty much anything I put into my body is 'food' or something the doctor told me to put there. The food part, I often have a hard time keeping control over. I can't regulate myself in my house. If there are sweets, they are gone. They may not have the short term impact that alcohol does, but they have had a pretty serious long term impact on my health.

I can certainly understand the allure of taking the edge off. My doctor put me on Xanax at one point. 15 minutes after I took the first pill, for the first time in my entire life, I felt relaxed. I didn't even realize, before that, how much anxiety I had in me. I'd developed an involuntary gag response that was triggered by all sorts of things- eating, singing, cold air... it's funny, when I went to the doctor he wanted to send me to an gastroenterologist, but I didn't have insurance. When I mentioned that singing triggered it he told me that one other patient, someone going to school for vocal music, was having the same problem and with them it turned out to be stress, so he tried the same treatment on me. Like a light switch, the gagging was gone. I wasn't, compared to other people I know, on a terribly high dose, but it was enough so I'd get home from work and go straight to bed. I would sleep 14 hours a day. I was happy, but not very functional. I finally weaned myself off of it. It was 6 months after I'd taken the last pill before I could bring myself to throw out the bottle with the rest of the pills. Just having them there was a safety net.

I've always had kind of an addictive personality, whether it was throwing a ball against the wall for hours a day or the Xanax, or Little Debbie Swiss Rolls. I think I was lucky to recognize that pretty early on before I got into drinking.

Some people can have 'product whatever' and know when to stop. I've never been very good at that. I take something for the anxiety now, and it still has side effects, but it's a much better balance of symptoms than I had with Xanax.

It's funny, sort of... I get jitters when I go up to perform, but they aren't a kind of anxiety that makes me uncomfortable. It's more like when you ask your dog if he wants to go for a ride. He gets all excited and crazy, but he is happier than he can get his head around. I feel jitters, but they are good jitters.

Now, put me in a room full of strangers and ask me to have a conversation, I'd rather you beat me over the head with a baseball bat.

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Goldbrick
1849 posts
Jul 28, 2017
3:43 PM
I guess i am lucky that I dont have a very addictive
bent. growing up in the 60's and 70's i had the " opportunity " to try it all. Just never did much for me and I never cared for alcohol beyond a glass of wine more than that I just felt stupid

I do like a toke or two but I hate the stuff they grow now which is paralyzing. good old home grown was best

I must admit that the old 714's could mellow you out real quick

So now a quick toke before the show and i be good

Last Edited by Goldbrick on Aug 01, 2017 5:32 PM
jbone
2335 posts
Jul 29, 2017
6:50 AM
TMF- props brother!
We know that the question of origin-nature or nurture- is not as important as dealing with the effect of the disease. Those of us who have this addictive trait, we turned a corner at some point in our lives and can never get back to that previous place. Once you are a pickle you will never be a cucumber again!
A recovery program can be successful when it is adopted and used on a daily basis.
Nate, I used to have jitters until I did the live music thing enough. I think I've been destined to be in front of people. It feels most natural and has done for 2 decades and more.

When you stack a person's ongoing survival- and the chance to keep pursuing their life work and contributing to the vast body of music- against whether they can or should continue a self destructive path in their lives, that is surely a no-brainer. I am one of the fortunate who chose to survive, and the result has been the happiest years and days of my life.


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groyster1
2982 posts
Jul 29, 2017
7:54 AM
if the alchohol is a crutch then thats always a problem no matter what the case may be.....I drink in moderation always being mindful if I have to drive...if you can take just enough to relax yourself I have no doubt that could improve your playing....many on stage performances have been disasters due to overimbibing
wolfkristiansen
402 posts
Jul 29, 2017
10:27 AM
I'm an old man. In the seventies, in Vancouver, I played with or was in a band that shared bills with Albert Collins, John Lee Hooker, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee, Bo Diddley, James Cotton. Between sets, I was back stage with them. They drank. I did too.

"Da bluz and booze go together"-- a quote in the Georgia Straight from a Vancouver coffee house owner as she announced she was (a) bringing in her first blues act, and (b) applying for a liquor licence.

"Booze and Modern Blues Harmonica"-- maybe not?

Cheers,

wolf kristiansen

Last Edited by wolfkristiansen on Jul 29, 2017 11:20 AM
hvyj
3401 posts
Jul 29, 2017
2:21 PM
I usually drink when I play. Not heavily, but I start during set up and I think it loosens me up and gets me more easily into the flow of the music. But every now and then, if I got to the venue a little late, take a little too long to set up or just couldn't get the attention of a server, I've played at least one set without any lubrication. Every time that happened I have played consistently well. Sorta makes me wonder....

Actually when I first started gigging regularly with a professional band I wouldn't have anything to drink until after the first set. But at that time, unless we had played the night before, I would usually struggle a little on the first set. Not nerves, just a little stiff musically. But not if we had gigged the night before. Having a drink didn't seem to help (or hurt) but at that time, I'd almost always wait until the first break.

I have played with some musicians who, on occasion would get so uncontrolled it was like giving liquor to the Indians. That led to some really funny experiences, as well as some that were not so funny.

Back in the 80's I had the good fortune to sit in regularly with a hot white R&B band. One time when they had a week long engagement at a local night club the band members were allowed to drink on a tab all week and square up on Saturday night when they got paid for the week. There was a female percussionist in the band who was also a kick ass drummer--better than the band's regular drummer. Anyway, when the band got paid, she actually owed the club more than her cut of the pay. Very talented musician who had previously played with a band in NYC that regularly gigged at CBGB's, and a really nice person. 5 or 6 years ago I got word that she died on the East Coast from a heroin OD. Very sad.

Last Edited by hvyj on Jul 29, 2017 2:23 PM
SuperBee
4846 posts
Jul 29, 2017
11:05 PM
I dunno about playing but inebriation definitely makes listening easier to cope with
The Iceman
3298 posts
Jul 30, 2017
8:44 AM
Luckily for me, drinking just encourages sloppiness and stupidity with the bonus of a headache in a few hours, so there's not much there to attract me. I remember the years of leading a working Top-40 Band - guys in the band never allowed to get loose or drunk as well as my total fish out of water experience being sober at 2 AM every night while the bar manager turns on the lights and says "everyone has to go now - you can't stay here". It was like being in a large room of verifiable insane asylum inmates - no connection at all, just a friggin' circus everywhere!
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The Iceman
groyster1
2983 posts
Jul 30, 2017
9:22 AM
live and learn iceman....most of us learn the hard way
hot4blues
68 posts
Jul 31, 2017
4:38 PM
I noticed something on a regular basis when I'd drink any alcoholic beverages when practicing as well as playing. My mouth goes DRY! Literally, as dry as a bath towel that was in a dryer for the longest time. When practicing as well as playing, I find the best drink is a bottle of water. The mugs of suds & shots of bourbon are best left alone until using the harmonica is finished for the day or night. And if in a club, always have a designated driver. Why lose your driver's license because you just had to get a few down the gullet before closing? And musicians who can't make it to the shows because they got their dl suspended don't get paid. That's just my two cents worth.
groyster1
2985 posts
Jul 31, 2017
5:21 PM
thats way more than 2 cents advice
1847
4346 posts
Jul 31, 2017
5:31 PM
when the federal reserve bank was founded a dollar was a dollar.
since that time it has lost most of its value. it is now worth 4 cents

Last Edited by 1847 on Jul 31, 2017 5:38 PM
hvyj
3405 posts
Aug 01, 2017
9:34 AM
@hot4blues: That's why I usually order a glass of water to go along with whatever alcoholic beverage I'm drinking when I play.
HarpNinja
4271 posts
Aug 01, 2017
2:31 PM
I hate the feeling of being buzzed or drunk, so I would never play drunk.

I rarely even drink when playing...if I do, it is because of the taste and not because of the effects of alcohol.
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groyster1
2986 posts
Aug 01, 2017
4:07 PM
@harpninja
exactly same sentiments for me......word for word......thanks so much.....you rock
barbequebob
3438 posts
Aug 02, 2017
8:46 AM
Going back to my own personal history, I drank and smoked pot back in my younger days and many other musicians did regardless of the genre back when I started in the 70's as almost a kind of almost a rite of passage. However, I seldom ever let myself get really drunk or too high on the bandstand.

I stopped doing both and went totally dry by personal choice by the mid 90's mainly because I found myself starting to get too tired from all that. I also started losing my patience with musicians who got too drunk or high because even tho a number of them may have thought they played better (or maybe it's more like a liquid or smoke up courage), too often the fact of the matter was that for a large number of them, when they got too drunk or high, their playing would suffer and the first thing that's guaranteed to get messed up is their time.

I'm quite proud of playing 100% totally sober since the mid 90's. I don't partake in either of those things at all. Not even a taste.
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Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
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Honkin On Bobo
1457 posts
Aug 02, 2017
11:39 AM
The chemistry of taking a little of the edge off, but not so much as to compromise playing ability can be a tricky one. I'd say I've gotten it right the overwhelming majority of the time, but I'm sure there has been a time or two when I didn't. I regret those deeply. I respect the music too much not to. Messing with that equation if you're susceptible to a full blown "ism"....yeah, not a good idea, not a good idea at all.

Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Aug 02, 2017 12:08 PM
Moon Cat
721 posts
Aug 02, 2017
9:46 PM
I was asked to chime in so here it is: First, I in no way would encourage anyone, anywhere ever to take any drug for the sake of musical growth or performance especially if you are an individual that has a genetic predisposition to addiction and/or alcoholism. I have to say that... do what you wan't to I never said it's cool...

Obviously people with real addiction issues shouldn't drink or take anything at all ever. Further discussing "will power/control/moderation" etc is NOT an issue for this forum at all and should be researched independently by those sincerely in search of answers about why some people cannot stop using/drinking once a mind altering chemical has been introduced to their system. There is a wealth of information out there by real scientists, geneticists and Doctor's available to those who truly care to try and understand why some are different from others in regards to controlled drinking, drug use and/or moderation. Additionally if any one on this forum is having a real problem quitting alcohol or drugs, feel more than free to email me for my phone number I would be happy to talk. This is a subject much more dear to me than music I am happy to help in any fashion even if it is just to listen.

That being said many great things can come out of altered states both musically and non. I believe almost all drugs individually or combined, used within reason, can have positive effects on art. I think it's pretty obvious given the history of all art that chemicals have played at least as much of a positive role in art as they have caused pain. Thats a bold statement as I have lost many dearly loved friends to drugs and booze including my Father. My own life has been impacted beyond most of yall's imagination by dope and booze. That being said: Marijuana especially has some pretty great melodic thinking possibilities and much truth has been spoken by Adam about the benefits of alcohol etc... I think these drugs in particular can be great for creativity, new thoughts/ideas, confidence, enhanced listening, ego loss and other great benefits! LSD, mushrooms and other psychedelics are especially powerful tools for listening and carving/forming new opinions or destroying old ones. I honestly cannot say I would ever be the performer, writer or musician I am today with out the drugs I mentioned. That being said all these substances have significant negative side effects as well. They can provide blueprints to a finished work but will NEVER build your house for you. NEVER. Also it's worth adding that there is a significant amount of proof and studies that confirm if you practice intoxicated you need to test/perform in exactly the same intoxicated state to produce the same results...So if your'e going to be playing both sober and intoxicated and wan't it to go well you'll need to double your practice time and dope money...

Serious addiction issues and health concerns aside, as has been said already: The balancing act of "exactly the right amount" is a slippery slope and one that is often misstepped by A LOT of non-alcoholic/addict/recreational users every night. I think as cool as weed is for playing and as fun as it is, that rhythmically especially, many people seem to suffer on this drug. Also many musicians forget verses/arrangements and other things and that sucks too... Booze is rad for attitude and confidence which are of course important but sloppy playing, poor crowd reeding, taxing those around you and overconfidence frequently get the best of even the most moderate users... I'm not going to expand on the effects of hard drugs on music because nothing needs to be romanticized about any of those substances ever. Let me only quote the words of someone very special to me: "I promise you...You will not like it".

The bottom line for me is this is a job. Why ADD yet another variable that can affect us harmfully in any way? This shit is hard enough with bad sound guys, varying audiences, changing musicians, long travel days, equipment malfunctions etc... Adding an additional possible worry (State of mind) is not worth the benefits I use to get from it. For me personally playing sober is by far the best for complete execution of rhythm, melody and harmony. Contrary to popular belief there are very FEW videos of me playing intoxicated online. Out of over a thousand videos there are probably maybe a dozen or so where I'm actually intoxicated. Most of them are on weed and booze, there are one or two from Heroin and none on cocaine as it is a hard drug to use musically, as you need it a lot and are stuck on stage... Almost ALL of my career and performing has been due to sobriety and the times when I have not been sober tend to find me barricading myself in rooms and doing nothing other than using but as most of you know I'm not a social user really.

The bottom line is if you are seriously considering a career in the music business or are just really serious about playing well that drugs and booze are almost always more of a liability to the user than a spring board. Bill Withers called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame performance: "The largest AA meeting in the world" due to the amount of SOBER musicians there. Most musicians WORKING today do not mix there performances with drugs or booze. Times have changed, the industry is tougher, more discerning than ever before, money is tight...Nobody not record labels, clubs, managers, agents, festivals NOBODY, even on a local level wants to risk their money and time on something or someone that COULD go south due to something as dumb as a drink or a drug. Don't end up like me kid, stay in school drugs are for dummies!
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www.mooncat.org

Last Edited by Moon Cat on Aug 02, 2017 11:59 PM
groyster1
2989 posts
Aug 03, 2017
9:59 AM
you now play sober.....I rest my case


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