Tommy the Hat
600 posts
Jul 18, 2017
3:44 PM
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I think I’ve been out of the loop too long, too much has changed. I don’t really need a new harp but have been looking and contemplating just in case. For the future. I was leaning toward the MBD then , completely by accident while reading something unrelated, found out they are not sold in the U.S. any longer. What the…
Ok, my first love- the crossover- is too expensive so how about a Sp 20? I really do like how they play, I’m just a sucker for wooden combs as my other post explained, so they’re not my first choice only for that reason. While browsing Rokin Ron’s and other sites I kept seeing this “560” Sp 20 and was confused. I looked a little deeper and Progressive came up. What? They changed it? Crap!
Then I read horror stories. More than one reviewer said that it isn’t meant to play blues (whatever that means) and one guy even went as far as saying that is states this on the back of the box his 5 pack (or whatever) came in. “Not for Blues.” Something about the bends?
I found a great thread here from a few years back with a video by Isaacullah that explained a lot but still scares me. What have they done to the once great (imo) sp 20? One poster toward the end of the thread said his were fine and there’s nothing wrong with them. Others say you can’t play them out of the box. Any of the old sp 20’s I purchased all…each and every one of them…played well right out of the box.
I’m afraid to buy another one now! What’s the deal these days? Anything more I should know? Maybe I’ll stick to the MBD. Oh wait! Can’t get those so easily anymore. Rockin Ron has them but in select keys only at various times.
I don’t want to open a sp 20 and mess with it. I’ve done this countless times with harps and have never had success tweaking reeds/gaps. More ruined harps. I’m the same guy who, while people buy a lawnmower and have the same one for 20 years, has gone through 3 in the last 15.
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Tommy
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ejakon
32 posts
Jul 18, 2017
5:15 PM
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I have a special 20 b flat harmonica and i find that its viritually indistinguishable from a marine band, only difference is tone you can get from it (marine bands sound louder to me if you TB IDK) and thats it. Ive seen plenty of people use them for blues so i have no clue why people say its not meant for that shit. Maybe they dont play blues?
You could also jump on the Seydel bandwagon train but theyre pretty expensive, but the reeds are durable so you can go James Cotton on then all day. I think a Session Steel is like the same price as a MB Deluxe, only difference between those and a seydel is a slightly quieter but more crunchier sound, and a weird colored plastic comb
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 18, 2017 5:16 PM
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SuperBee
4807 posts
Jul 18, 2017
5:22 PM
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Ron buys deluxe in from Germany. Hohner USA don't stock them.
The special 20: has ever so much rot been written?
Tommy, it's true they produced some with badly set offsets (aka 'gaps').
Honestly, there is no difference between a 'marine band' sp20 and a progressive sp20 beyond the name on the cover, the hole in the reedplates which allows them to. E used for the 'rocket' model, and the standardised 1.6M reed plate bolts.
Think about it; they use the same reedplates in the premium 'Rocket' model.
If you buy from a dealer like Ron, you'll have no problem. If you go to a store which doesn't sell a lot of harps, it's possible you might turn up a harp from those first few months of production where the offsets were too high.
The tuning is the same as ever, the reeds are same as marine band, golden melody, crossover. The reed plates same as rocket. Covers are same as ever in every material way.
It's almost as if there has been a campaign of misinformation to take market share from hohners most popular diatonic
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Sherwin
241 posts
Jul 18, 2017
5:45 PM
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The tolerances are are tiny bit tighter on the current production handmade series harps from Hohner. You may still get a dog, mostly they all play very well, and if you get a 'good' one, then you've really got something.
The new Hohners rock, so to speak, and they're still great for blues.
Michael
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Sherwin
242 posts
Jul 18, 2017
5:47 PM
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And what Superbee said
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Tommy the Hat
601 posts
Jul 18, 2017
5:52 PM
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Thanks SuperBee. That's all I wanted to know.
@ejakon:
Quote: "I have a special 20 b flat harmonica and i find that its viritually indistinguishable from a marine band, only difference is tone you can get from it (marine bands sound louder to me if you TB IDK) and thats it. Ive seen plenty of people use them for blues so i have no clue why people say its not meant for that shit. Maybe they dont play blues?"
That was kind of my point about the difference for me between Marine Bands and SP 20's. The tone. I like he tone better on the Marine Bands. But I love the playability of the Sp 20's and have had plenty of them. Been buying them since the early 90's. I was only concerned about the new ones...the "Progressive's." I know that many blues players use Sp 20's. But those are the older ones like I have. I read at least twice that the "new ones" (Progressive's) weren't made for that. Probably internet trash talk but I was just checking since I've been away from harps for awhile. Maybe those reviewers got an alternate tuning by mistake. Who knows.
Thanks though :)
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Tommy
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1847
4296 posts
Jul 18, 2017
6:01 PM
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supe....
why is it no one else gets it?.. i don't even play hohners.
"reaches under desk, pulls out a joe spiers low F"
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Tommy the Hat
602 posts
Jul 18, 2017
6:26 PM
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I hear ya 1847, but I guess these things are like anything else in life. Some people love McDonald's while others swear by Burger King. I've tried other harps. I've had 2 Seydals (a C and a D) and didn't like either of them. They do have the smoothest covers I've ever put to my lips but other than that they didn't play well and they were mustache hair rippers. I had a Suzuki and didn't like it. I had a Bushman that I loved but I think the company went to crap or something. I forget but I know I wouldn't buy another one.
I had another popular harp but it was way back and I can't remember the brand, but I didn't like it either so never bought another.
But I liked all of my Special 20's and never had a problem with any of them right out of the box. Any Marine bands I've had it's hard to remember since they are old but for the most part I lied them. One I still have is great. The other is ok but has the scratchy reed plate so I keep it in the car. I have a blues harp that I tried to gap and ruined it. So of all my Hohners I have one that is uncomfortable and that's a MarineBand. SP 20's...no problems ever. That's a pretty good track record for Hohner "for me." Other harps I've tried....not so good. Si I decided not to even try anymore. Why Waste Money I don't have?
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Tommy
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WinslowYerxa
1391 posts
Jul 18, 2017
6:55 PM
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Then there's still the vanilla Marine Band. Aside from taking a blade and dulling the comb tines, you've got nearly the same harp as the MB Deluxe (yeah, the nails, too).
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Irish Soul
33 posts
Jul 18, 2017
8:09 PM
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Every harp has some issue it seems like otb. I just straightened a draw plate tonight that I swear they ran the screws in with a power drill...and it was a pricier "name you know" type harp. Plays fine now but I think the brand doesn't matter so much as the player...you know? I had a special 20 and played it till the wheels fell off as we say.
Play what you like...like Winslow said there is always the vanilla Marine Band but you plan to do work on that when you buy it....enjoyable if you want to do it.... A lot of other harps you may not plan to work on, but you will anyway. Not as enjoyable.
Do business with someone like Rockin' Ron or if you really want a semi custom Special 20 look to Tom Halchek of Blue Moon Harmonica here on the forum...he just did a run of some really nice ones....either way like the Bee says...you won't go wrong. Those guys both back what they sell
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nacoran
9525 posts
Jul 18, 2017
10:07 PM
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You can open up the backs on Sp20s and they will sound a little bit more like MBs. If you don't care about how they look you could open up a whole set in 5 minutes. If you do care about how they look you can watch one or two videos and then open up a whole set in 15 minutes. They won't quite sound the same, but close (they don't have the side vents... I suspect they sound more like MBs to the audience and maybe a little less to the guy playing the harp).
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Tommy the Hat
603 posts
Jul 19, 2017
5:18 AM
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Nate, that's interesting about opening the back. I really like the way SP 20's play. However, (compared to Marine Band's) I find them just a little too bright. I often wondered if that was because they were so loud or if it was how "the player" hears them rather than the listener. I would have thought opening the backs would make them even brighter or louder (?).
My harp sound preference is like my sound preference for guitars (as a listener). With crunch...some distortion (overdrive?). I understand this is done through amplification effects but some harps have a little naturally even acoustically. For me I hear it in my Crossover and somewhat in the Marine Bands. But less so in the Special 20's which I always attributed to the brightness and volume. So I find the idea of opening the backs interesting as I would have thought that would make it even brighter.
Thanks
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Tommy
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ejakon
33 posts
Jul 19, 2017
6:08 AM
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imo the bright sound comes from the fact that it has a loud acoustic tone. seydels have the same as well
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Tommy the Hat
604 posts
Jul 19, 2017
6:50 AM
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Thus my point about opening the back. I assumed this would make it even brighter.
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Tommy
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jbone
2319 posts
Jul 19, 2017
7:40 AM
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I killed a lot of SP20's for several years. My bad habits partly to blame, but the reeds were just not up to what I wanted. MB went to pot way back when in the 80's/90's and SP20 was a sort of answer, but if you make $50 on a gig and a blown harp cost $30 to replace, you were behind the curve. Which a lot of nights I did blow out a reed. Sometimes more.
I did change my ways and learned a lot about air column, breath force, etc., and cleaned up my act by the early '00's.
I found Delta Frost and liked them for a time. Reed plates you could replace and not as shrill (to me) as Lee Oskars. But for various reasons I drifted away from Bushman.
Suzuki won. Manji. Since they were released I have felt they were everything a MB COULD HAVE been. Suzuki did massive research and came up with an ideal harp for me. Replaceable screwed down reed plates. Braised reeds. Laser aligned. Composite comb that never warps, swells, or shrinks. Vented covers. Affordable replacement plates. Result was a harp with better volume and to me a great tone for what we do in our duo. Nuff said there.
I've tried most brands and a lot of styles of harmonica over the past 30 years or so. I like a good custom but can't afford either the $$ or the wait if one goes down. I also wrecked a few reed plates trying to be a customizer.
Until something even better comes along- that I can afford on a limited budget- I'm pretty much sticking with what I like best.
There are other options for SP20- like harps.
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nacoran
9527 posts
Jul 19, 2017
11:46 AM
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Interesting. I always thought of the Sp20 as having the warmer sound...
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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jbone
2320 posts
Jul 19, 2017
4:58 PM
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@ Nate, I agree on SP20. I played them way too hard in rock blues settings with inadequate amp/mic setups. My style evolved over recent years to a more acoustic thing with less instruments. That necessitated the harp standing out more but also lasting longer. Hence my choice of axe.
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