Ive been going through a lot recently. My high school life is utterly ruined because of alienation and mockery (thanks to my disorder), ive been harrassed and hit on (they were being satrical) by straight women after they found out i wasnt straight i fuck up at work all the time and i feel depressed from a increasingly alienating world that is out to get me.
Ive turned to the blues just because of this but whenever i try translating my feelings over the harmonica, theres no structure at all and it feels chaotic and random.
And whenever i try doing it properly after reading Adams videos on the 12 bar, it feels increasingly robotic as the same licks are repeated over and over again (espically the IV chord where u blow)
I know this is kind of emotional and all but basically what im trying to say is: How does one translate it properly over a 12 bar without it feeling repitive and robotic?
I think....you need to shed, or fish, or collect your thoughts however you need to....inside I think you know the answer.
Let it come out however you need to in a constructive way...take what you get and then whittle it down until it fits what you are trying to do. Even if it is repetitive, so are these feelings you are describing and want to write. Trust me when I say that almost nobody gets what they want right away, but that foundation will eat you alive if you don't let it out.
You need to be ok with your disability....it sucks...it's shitty...it's not fair....and it will give you outlooks on things and new takes that not one other person has. You are unique...when you make peace with that...a lot more things will make sense to you.
Don't be too hard on yourself man. However the feeling comes out just let it out. If it's not musically "correct" so what? Doctors told Joe Cocker's parents he needed to be institutionalized. He wasn't, and look at what he gave the world. He adapted and overcame. Did he do it "right"? Who cares? Maybe I'm a case in point. I had a very hard time learning anything. I was an emotional wreck the first 30-odd years of my life. I managed to have a job but most of the rest of my life was wreckage. I hit bottom with addiction and alcoholism at age 32. A few years later I began to try and learn about harp and music again. That was when things began to get better for me. With recovery I became more teachable. But imagine, from age 17 to about 34, having a disconnect from the one thing I wanted so badly.
I have yet to do a scale, even at age 62. BUT. I have mad improv skills, developed over all these decades. I am partners with my wife Jolene, and we have the coolest duo I ever saw. We are now on the road full time playing wherever we get the chance. We have 2 cd's out and another on the way.
I don't mean to brag. I wanted to show you, no matter the challenge, with stubbornness and determination and dedication, YOU can find your place in music. You can learn to play harp and sing. It's up to you. Dues will be paid and none of us decide how much dues or when the balance is zero. We just go forward. ----------
As far as your personal problems, I think you should find someone to talk to. Does your high school have counselors? Would it be possible for you to see a therapist of some sort (psychologist, sociologist, whatever). You'd be surprised at what good it would do to just have someone to talk to. Now, about the blues and repetition. If you listen to some of the greatest blues musicians, such as Sonny Boy Williamson II, Sonny Terry, Albert King or Elmore James, you'll discover that they're playing the same 5 or 6 notes over and over. But they're playing them backwards, forwards and shuffling them like a deck of cards. So take those repetitive riffs you're learning; take the first note and put it at the end - take the last note and put it at the beginning - take the middle note(s) and put it somewhere else. And so forth. You'll find that this is fun and you might even discover some licks that are unique and you can call your own.
There's so much in one note. I have 2 specific suggestions. One is to work on saying vowels as you play a single note. Try two different ones together and especially sustained for as long as you reasonably can. Listen to the subtleties. Do it drawing and blowing. You do have to clearly articulate single notes to do this. I'm actually surprised how many people I hear who say they play harp and can't play single notes. The value of vowels is in the fact that they are the physical positions we use (with our mouth) to articulate discernable sounds that we can hear and translate. Pierre Beauregard taught me this in 1978. Suggestion 2 - find a tune that you can commit to that you can cut your teeth (literally?!) on to learn the subtleties of expression. I did it with Amazing Grace. I seriously beat myself up on that song for about 14 hours over two days. The capacity to do justice to it was a serious question for me. The tune of course is reverent and surely worth the effort for that song alone but the benefit for accessing emotion on other songs was invaluable. Hang in there, it IS worth it.
Last Edited by Littoral on Jul 03, 2017 4:55 AM
I second bluzmn's advice on both counts. One of Adam's sayings is "repetition with variation", or doing the same thing with a slight difference each time. A lot of blues works like this. I hope things take a turn for the better for you and best of luck with everything.
Ejakon I can relate baby...This may sound overly simple but just keep playing it all comes out when it's ready. Much love and understanding honey! This one's is for YOU today: www.mooncat.org
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Jul 03, 2017 11:52 AM
Even if you only play the basic three notes in each chord, only play single notes and only in one octave, and only in 4/4 time, with only quarter notes, there are possible 81 combinations for each bar (3x3x3x3).
And twelve bar is only one possible chord structure!
I like Littoral's advice of learning one song really well and then figuring out how to play it as expressively as possible.
As for the rest, finding someone to talk to really can help. I've had OCD and anxiety problems my whole life, and depression that breaks through if I don't take medication. Spending an hour a week talking stuff out with a therapist keeps my head screwed on (fairly) tightly.
The chord progressions can seem tough at first, and seem like a lot of structure, but when you get them down they become natural and they make it easy to play with other musicians. Playing with other people is a great way to find your social niche. Music is a great way to bond, but you don't have to rush it. I spent the first 6 months when I was learning harmonica just playing random notes. I'd learned some music and music theory the 'traditional' way with classes, choir and band in school and had always gotten frustrated because I never got to the stage where I was good enough to be creative- to have an idea in my head and to be able to play it. I wanted to learn harmonica differently. By playing random stuff (and driving my friends crazy) for six months I learned where all the notes were, where the different intervals are, how to basically play the ideas that were in my head. Now, if I know a song well enough to whistle or hum it I can usually figure it out the melody on harmonica in just a couple minutes. It's totally different than the 'traditional' way to learn harmonica, but it got me to the point where I could play enough to have fun, and then I could slowly add other form into my music.
"Ive turned to the blues just because of this but whenever i try translating my feelings over the harmonica, theres no structure at all and it feels chaotic and random....And whenever i try doing it properly after reading Adams videos on the 12 bar, it feels increasingly robotic as the same licks are repeated over and over again (espically the IV chord where u blow"
You've raised a lot of interesting questions. Since you've come here for guidance, I've got a question or two of my own, and a suggestion or two as well.
1) What particular piece of blues music, in particular, caused you to turn to the blues at this particular moment? You must have been moved by SOME specific recording, and you must have identified it as blues, in order to decide that blues held out the promise of relief for you. So what was it? And did it have harmonica in?
2) Regardless of whether that piece of music had harmonica in it, what harmonica players make music that moves you? Can you point to a particular riff or set of notes, or melody, or rhythm, and say "THAT is what I like and want to learn?"
I don't think that anybody on this forum can guide you in a truly effective way--at least with respect to your questions about blues and blues harmonica--until you answer those questions. Of course we all wish you well with respect to your personal challenges, because we are all friendly, helpful people! But we need to know what moves you musically. You haven't told us that yet.
My hunch, I should say, is that you need to simplify radically, trimming things down so that you find one great lick that you can play in time and that just sounds and feels right to you, with a rhythm that you can sustain. Once you find that, you can work some variations on it, call and response style. But that's just a hunch. I look forward to your answers to 1 and 2 above.
In the meantime, here's something to lift a little weight.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jul 03, 2017 7:24 AM
Music allows you to express things you can't put into words, but in a way that other people can understand or at least relate to.
Being able to express yourself on harp (or any instrument) is a big achievement. Expressing yourself means being able to play what you feel--being able to make what you hear in your head (or on a recording) come out of your harmonica.
This takes a while and requires practice. What did it for me was learning (practicing) scales. Among other things, this gives you familiarity with where the notes are, so you are able to find the sound you want to play. It also teaches you structure of what notes go with one another so you can start to think (musically) on your feet. Personally, I've always had an innate sense of rhythm, so the groove thing sorta came naturally for me.
Anyway, learning and practicing scales along with playing with other musicians and listening to music of various kinds is what unlocked the door for me. FWIW.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jul 03, 2017 7:40 AM
You wanted to express yourself when you were very tiny...first, you had to learn about words and how to say them. Next, you had to put those words in short and coherent order to create sentences. Finally, you could pick and choose the words best used to express what was in your head.
Same thing for harmonica - first learn a very simple and rudimentary harmonica music language, which includes basic techniques. Only after you have this ability will you be able to express yourself, much like the child/language example above. ---------- The Iceman
It all started from a man called Son House, I first heard his recordings when i investigated Blues music a whike ago. The man was dripping with so much soul and angst I just knew that this is the music of the oppressed, a century of hardships and poverty and racism from suffering under a white supramacist socioeconomic system made me realize I was experiencing the same thing as well.
I was a slide guitarist before a Harmonica player and hearing "Levee Camp Moan" with Alan Wilson of Canned Heat comping Son House and Sonny Terry on early Woody Guthrie recordings made me seek out the Harmonica
My first was a Marine Band actually, and i got good at it. fast. In half a year actually, many people in my school actually admired how good i made it sound, ive been recorded many times by high school students, who have never seen a real life Harmonica player before, so a simple train rhythm or even one single wah impreases them. I myself however, am a more harsher critic and i cant stand my own recordings haha.
Aa for your other question, I really like Sonny Boy Williamson II and John Lee Sonny Boy Williamson I and Big Walter Horton for acoustic playing styles, and i tongue block in the style of Big Walter and James Cotton, on the Bullet Mic, but i really love the wah effect ( I really wish i knew how to do this on the mic) and i can get a strong one out of a Bluesmaster, which is cool considering mine have really shit tone. I mainly tongue block now because I really like the fat tone it gives, but it sounds slobbish and muddy, like if someone drank a lotta whiskey and started playing, probably because Im a wet player. Hell when i busked for half a hour, i found myself lip pursing alot instead and having my harnonica playing interrupted by having my throat choke up because of dryness!
As for the riff, I reguarly listen to Walters Boogie (the fast one, on youtube calles Blues Harp Shuffle and played cross harp in the key of F), SBWII's opening on Help Me, SBWI's riffs on Sloppy Drunk Blues and Good Morning Little School Girl, Rocker by Little Walter, James Cottons solo on Got My Mojo Working and Sonny Terry's Blues with a Whoop to learn rhythm. Particularly, I use the opening trill to start my songs up if its played slowly or i use a turn around riff as a introduction. If you want i can quickly record a 1-2 minute song playing in the style of both Rice Miller and John Lee Sonny Boy because i really love using that wah wah effect to imitate crying and anger, espically on the 4 draw.
My personal problems can't be resolved by counselers unfortunately, I've lost everything but the blues. All I have with me are Hawaiian Shirts and Suzuki Bluesmasters with awful Intonation haha. It is ok though, they come and go but the harmonica does not. Im just a melachonic person in general.
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 03, 2017 9:21 AM
High school is different--everyone clamoring to be cooler than the next person Im 65 ,n I can tell u that most of the people, that I knew , who were "cool people " in high school--did not amount to much later-many times bcuz they were followers- --- If it was hip to tease someone they did it etc
Another Ironic thing is that the so called "geeks, nerds--people in band or people doing music or art when it wasn't hip -seemed to have happy lives and did what 'they ' were meant to do in life---As opposed to what mommy n daddy shoved down there throat ie; u will be an accountant--u will be a doctor both very fine professions---but maybe not what u had in mind Your struggles now will pay off later---there 'hipness' now is probably the best they will ever get
People who constantly criticize and put down other people, usually have low self esteem-they need to make themselves feel more important by making u feel less important "lo self esteem" Hope Im not out of line philosophizing-
its just honestly-yr struggles will dissipate and down the road u will se that it made the good open hearted person that u are
In case anyones curious to how it sounds when i try to mix my feelings with a 12 bar, this is what i got (before i ran out of ideas haha)
https://soundcloud.com/e-j-delos-santos/feeling-3
https://soundcloud.com/e-j-delos-santos/feeling-2
https://soundcloud.com/e-j-delos-santos/feeling-1
Feeling 2 has some tongue blocking but other than that, i found out that most of it is naturally lip pursed since i really like the sharpness lip pursing gets u when you do wah-wahs.
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 03, 2017 1:54 PM
Well you've certainly answered my question! I'm genuinely impressed by the quality and range of players you've mentioned. I hate to use the term "young person," because it sounds condescending and it makes me sound like an old person, but that's unusual in a young person. Heck, it's unusual for 80-90% of the people in the world who have and play a harmonica.
So you're listening to the right stuff, and that's good. Your Soundcloud files sound to me like somebody who has figured out how to get some good hand-action sounds; also like somebody who is playing around with the expressiveness of the wah-wah sound and in-and-out chords, but who isn't making a lot of music yet. I just think you need to cultivate patience, recognizing that it takes a while to learn music and play it from the soul. Right now you're experimenting from the soul, but not really playing songs. So I suggest that you begin by picking ONE song, listening to multiple versions of it, and really learning it well. I think that will have the proper effect.
Thats some really helpful advice, kudzurunner! right now I am working on Walters Boogie in the key of F (the one on youtube, although i do listen to other versions of his boogie) and memorizing the lyrics/riffs of SBWI/SBWII songs so i can busk more effectively without running out of idea, like how James Cotton or Phil Wiggins or pretty much every post war harmonica player did haha. Once again, thanks for your insight and i look forward to being a long time member of this fourm
Last Edited by ejakon on Jul 04, 2017 11:20 AM
People don't always like what I am going to say, but I will say it anyway. In order to play Blues, you have to really do two things.
1. Learn how to operate the instrument. This isn't super complex and there are lots of people to learn from.
2. Learn about the music itself and play what fits. This is much harder. I know several very accomplished players who have a hard time with playing what fits. It requires research, lots of listening and lots of experimentation. Early on, I was given the following advice. "Listen to everyone and steal from everyone." If you want to play like a particular artist, you will have to listen to the music that influenced that artist. For example, if you want to work towards sounding like Big Walter, you have to learn who influenced him and do a lot of listening. It would also help to start listening to his work as a sideman and a band leader. It's a ton of work and a person has to have a passion for doing the work. However, if you are passionate about it, it won't really seem like work.
A lot of good specific points above. I especially liked the more general statement of The Iceman:
"You wanted to express yourself when you were very tiny...first, you had to learn about words and how to say them. Next, you had to put those words in short and coherent order to create sentences. Finally, you could pick and choose the words best used to express what was in your head.
Same thing for harmonica - first learn a very simple and rudimentary harmonica music language, which includes basic techniques. Only after you have this ability will you be able to express yourself, much like the child/language example above." ________________________
You have music and emotion in you and you want to let it out by playing harmonica. The more you learn about the music, and better you master the instrument, the more clearly you can express it and let it flow.
You learn the musical language and learn to use the instrument in order to open the path to expression.
As Joe L. just said above, "if you are passionate about it, it won't really seem like work. ----------
Good advice from Adam, Jason, Iceman. Listen to these guys, they know.
The only thing I can add, and its been the philosophy I've always followed with music. Its better to play something simple well, than to play something complicated badly.
Practice, get your single notes clean, get your tone big, learn a few simple riffs. You'll get there. Patience my friend.
---------- Jim McBride Bottle 'O Blues microphones www.bottleoblues.com
