From what i have read about this in the past they did it to have more ability to 'shape' notes. They both started out as acoustic players and took those techniques with them when they went amplified. Walter adapted to amped playing more totally in later years as in using a full cup, wheresas SBW still basically played acoustic style but amplified through a mike.
Last Edited by indigo on Feb 07, 2017 7:37 PM
In Sonny Boy's case, you can actually hear him damping or muting with his finger tips, individual notes even. Whereas the normal "hand wah wah" muting mimics a trumpet with a plunger mute, the finger damping mimics a trumpet with a fixed mute. In Horton's clip, when blowing acoustic with the hand wah wah and all that, he sounds a lot like Sonny Boy 2. Horton claimed that SBW2 stole Horton's original style, so he invented new styles.
There is, somewhere in the archives, at least one other thread on the topic. I played with it and I *think* I can hear a difference when I do it.
At first I thought maybe he was actually catching the reeds. SBW's harp is pretty wide open in back. That got me experimenting with a toothpick in the back on reeds. You can get some neat sounds that way, but it's not at all related to the sound he's getting.
I have no idea what keyword you'd use to find the old thread, but if I remember people were mostly split into the 'shaping one note' or the 'just for show' camps.
I believe i fall into the latter camp nathan. Because #1 mostly everything you do to create your sound is internal. So this would make a visual to let the audience see them "shape their sound". For the purposes of making it more interesting to watch.
But #2 and more importantly i think.... To throw people off the trail to copying their sound.
This is my take on it. Just wondering if anybody could come up with something i didnt know.
They both do this at the low end. So if it were show the placement wouldnt be critical. So it still makes me wonder.
Another person on facebook commented saying he has heard a theory the they were trying to seal leaks in the harp. Intersting ... But not sure i buy that either.
This very same thing was brought up on FB and part of it is just sheer personal comfort and part of it, even more so, is for shaping the sounds. It's true that both started playing before the dawn of amplified harp and using the hands is VITAL for shaping the sounds and so they didn't tight cup everything 24/7 and even the use of a single finger can color (tho very subtly) the sound and it can be different depending on which finger(s) you use.
Both BW as well as LW applied much of this to amplified harp as well and I saw BW do this quite often during the 70's when I used to see and hang out with him at least 4 times a year, which was how often he played in the Boston, MA area.
This, combined with top notch breath control, helped to not only shape their sounds, but give them a much wider variety of tonal colors as well and many harp players get into the amplified thing far too soon because they often never learn how to make really good use of their hands except for maybe one wah-wah effect and holding the mic and harp in their hands and for REAL acoustic playing, the use of hands is EXTREMELY important and what some players consider acoustic harp, which is often holding harp and mic tight cupped in their hands but without the distortion just ain't the real deal at all and I consider that totally phony acoustic harp, just nothing but amplified harp minus the dirt.
BTW, there are some recordings of SBWII playing amplified harp, but in the studio, he's actually playing straight into the board and NOT using an amp. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
This very same thing was brought up on FB and part of it is just sheer personal comfort and part of it, even more so, is for shaping the sounds. It's true that both started playing before the dawn of amplified harp and using the hands is VITAL for shaping the sounds and so they didn't tight cup everything 24/7 and even the use of a single finger can color (tho very subtly) the sound and it can be different depending on which finger(s) you use.
Both BW as well as LW applied much of this to amplified harp as well and I saw BW do this quite often during the 70's when I used to see and hang out with him at least 4 times a year, which was how often he played in the Boston, MA area.
This, combined with top notch breath control, helped to not only shape their sounds, but give them a much wider variety of tonal colors as well and many harp players get into the amplified thing far too soon because they often never learn how to make really good use of their hands except for maybe one wah-wah effect and holding the mic and harp in their hands and for REAL acoustic playing, the use of hands is EXTREMELY important and what some players consider acoustic harp, which is often holding harp and mic tight cupped in their hands but without the distortion just ain't the real deal at all and I consider that totally phony acoustic harp, just nothing but amplified harp minus the dirt.
BTW, there are some recordings of SBWII playing amplified harp, but in the studio, he's actually playing straight into the board and NOT using an amp. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I believe I've seen Sonny Terry do the same thing. I've wondered if it might have been the harp slipping a bit in the player's hand because it was being held loosely with one hand - and he is simply pushing it back with a finger from the other hand.
I rarely disagree with the venerable Barbeque Bob, but I'm not buying the sound shaping part.
I'm hearing both players changing their tone by altering the size of their oral cavity in sync with placing their fingers up to the back of their harps like that. Such alterations in the size of their oral cavity would have a far more profound effect than putting their fingers inside their cup.
Have you ever seen the great Kirk "Jellyroll" Johnson play? He's always fluttering the fingers of both hands. I've asked him about this finger wiggling and so does Hal Walker in this clip. He says it is unconscious and that he didn't even realize he was doing it at first. He further explains that it really has no effect on his tone. (Watch starting ~4:00.)
So I am going to side with the folks who suggest it is for show.
Michelle
---------- SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
Tom i had considered the same thing. But they do it so often .. Its not likely.
Michelle nice video. I agree .. I dont quite by the sound shaping either.
That finger flutter in this video is one thing ... It takes no extra effort. But what SBW2 and Horton are doing really causes you to go out of your way to do it. And its not exactly comfortable or natural feeling.
I have noticed when trying this myself that it seems to make the notes louder. Particularly on the blow side.(meaning when blocking the top slot) And when i say louder .. I mean 'To me' (the player) not to the listener.
Do you think its possible that this started as a way to be able to hear yourself when playing for a loud crowd or on a loud street (maxwell .. Etc.) .... And just became habit??
Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on Feb 09, 2017 10:12 AM
For some players, much of it is just showmanship, for some, they're not even aware of it and for some, it is the shaping of the sound, BUT it's very, very, very subtle, almost to the point of being unnoticeable and often really easy to miss, which is often the case when it's not something easily in your face obvious. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
