Wade Scronce
2 posts
Feb 01, 2017
4:47 AM
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I'm new here, harp player for 40 years. Gigging for almost 10. I play in a regular Classic Rock/Blues band and play Rhythm guitar in addition to the Harp. I have been trying to use one amplifier for both due to convenience, weight, etc. So I'm using a Fender Deluxe Hot Rod which crapped out on me Friday night. Happened to have a back up with me a Peavey Classic VT 212, which worked and actually sounded better for the harp than the Fender *Fender is horrible sometimes for feedback) but I usually stand in front of the amp which is probably my biggest mistake. Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions for a combo or maybe a head and cabinet like a Fender bassman or something or I found a deville Hot Rod for a reasonable price, if anyone has experience with those. Keep in mind I play some guitar, so I need two inputs or should I go back to using two amps???
thanks
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SuperBee
4469 posts
Feb 01, 2017
5:03 AM
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I use a hot rod Deville. They're pretty gainy just like your hr deluxe. Really similar amp actually. I modded mine but they are useable stock. If you used a hr deluxe I reckon you'd cope with the Deville. Same crappy quality issues though.
(But mine is 20 years old and still good, never given trouble)
Plug the mic into input number 2, stay away from the drive channel, don't turn the bass too high, certainly no more than 8 but closer to 7 might be ok. Don't expect to turn it up too high on the volume knob but you'll get quite a lot of volume from it anyway.
Some people can deal with them, some say they're 'a feedback nightmare!'
Something like a preamp that allows you to reduce the input signal might help.
You can 'tube down' the preamp pretty successfully but since you want double duty that is probably not viable
Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 01, 2017 5:04 AM
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Wade Scronce
3 posts
Feb 01, 2017
5:44 AM
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thanks for that. I've read a good bit about mods on the Deville that can really help it. Some of those can be done to the Deluxe as well. Only reason I'm looking at the Deville is I read that more or larger speaker surface area may relate to less feedback?? not sure though. a few of the clubs where I'm playing with hot shot guitarists, like jamming, it's ridiculous how high you have to crank it up to be heard
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Wade Scronce
4 posts
Feb 01, 2017
5:46 AM
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and the deluxe has been in the shop twice this in 12 months? maybe the Deville will be the same but the one I'm looking at is very well taken care of unlike mine.
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SuperBee
4471 posts
Feb 01, 2017
12:40 PM
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Yeah the hot rod deluxe and Deville have all the same susceptibility to damage from rough handling and the same circuit/component strengths and weaknesses.
I'm not sure if the older, made in USA, examples might be more robust. Maybe, but the design is the same so I don't know what the difference would be. Mine is made in USA and 20 years old, was in well-cared-for condition when I bought it 5 years ago and it's been very reliable in that time. I treat it nice.
Kim Wilson has been known to use them (2 together in fact), but does use a preamp also so hard to say exactly what is going on with that rig.
Ali Kumar used one at his jam as the house rig for harp, but that was tubed down with a 12au7 in v1 and 12at7 in the PI (v3). Also some changes with a couple resistors in the preamp.
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Barley Nectar
1289 posts
Feb 01, 2017
7:01 PM
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The entire HR, Blues, Deluxe, Deville series is known for inherent problems. It is really the luck of the draw as far as reliability goes. If you can find one that is well kept, used regularly, and dependable, you may have a winner. Or buy a new one and cross your fingers. I have played thru a few in the series and can say that I do like them. The 4x10 Deville is a Monster amp. I have not played the 3rd generation of these. Supposedly Fender listened and did some mods that make that version more manageable in general but not harp specific of course.
I have found that a vintage Bandmaster is an awesome harp amp. But these are heads unless you build a combo out of it. Cabs are plentiful on Ebay. The Bandmaster is shunned by geetar guys due to less gain and a slightly smaller output transformers then the SR or Bassman. This makes the Bandmaster cheaper and... better for harp. Also BM's are two channel so that can be set up any way you like by a good tech. These amps have old school eyelet boards and are easy to work on and maintain, unlike the HR series. Get a vintage Silverface Bandmaster, have it tuned up, set up, then stick it in a 2/3/4x10 cab of your likeing and Go To Town...Yah Baby!!
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Feb 01, 2017 7:03 PM
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Barley Nectar
1290 posts
Feb 01, 2017
7:18 PM
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This is a '68 SF black line Bandmaster with a repro black faceplate. I run this thru a 2x10 Tremolux style cab loaded with a Ragin Cajun and a Jensen C10P. Really Sweet rig.
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Feb 01, 2017 7:22 PM
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shakeylee
609 posts
Feb 01, 2017
7:23 PM
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Yeah,a bandmaster made into a vibroclone can be sweet!
Where do you live wade? Maybe we could find you something.
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www.shakeylee.com
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SuperBee
4474 posts
Feb 01, 2017
7:56 PM
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Gee whiz, find me one!
Long way to OZ but these things are rare and pricey over here!
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Wade Scronce
5 posts
Feb 02, 2017
10:45 AM
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that bandmaster is sweet. I live in Hickory NC, not too far from Charlotte.
thanks
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Wade Scronce
6 posts
Feb 02, 2017
10:55 AM
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I already have a Crate Cab 2/12
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Wade Scronce
7 posts
Feb 02, 2017
11:04 AM
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anybody have experience with a 96 Fender Blues Deluxe?
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BnT
13 posts
Feb 02, 2017
12:20 PM
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You might consider an old p.a. head like a Masco ME27 paired with your Crate. I used that combo (Palomino / Crate 2x10) for about 5 years for harp and slide guitar. No problem with volume or feedback - not a great video but at least you can hear it - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_7NMwj72P1A
If interested I would contact Skip@SkipSimmonsAmps.com. He is a master at old p.a. and amp rebuilds.
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BnT
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Wade Scronce
8 posts
Feb 02, 2017
3:28 PM
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thanks for that BnT, that is not a bad sound at all
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Wade Scronce
9 posts
Feb 06, 2017
4:58 AM
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I know Adam likes the Princeton Reverb, but does anyone have an opinion about playing harp and guitar through the Princeton?
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Littoral
1442 posts
Feb 06, 2017
5:52 AM
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I bet a good powered speaker with the right pedals would be a solid option. They've come a long ways recently. I know it would be the right choice for the harp and if it's mostly rhythm for guitar I bet it would work there too. Then you can sing through it as well.
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Wade Scronce
10 posts
Feb 06, 2017
4:32 PM
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hate to keep beating a dead horse but, how about modification of my deluxe HR? Is it a wast of money for harp or has anyone experimented with that?
Granger has a mod kit which sounds interesting, with mods including tone and volume mods and WGS ET65 speaker, 2 JJ6L6GC tubes and 3 12AX7 tubes??
That would be by far my least expensive option but a waste if it didn't accomplish anything.
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NiteCrawler .
349 posts
Feb 08, 2017
12:38 PM
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I had a tweed deluxe yrs ago and it fed back with volume at 3,4 max.I ended up selling it to a guitar player when I got a Ampeg VT 40.Anyway I wouldn,t bother with the ax7,s,they are a high gain pre-amp tube suited for guitar.If I were you I would try some ay 7,s which will give you less gain and more headroom for harp.If you go to the blues harp forum and enter search you should find some past posts about tube swapping.My 50 watt Meteor which is a harp amp has ay,s in it. (stock) I,ve never tried ax,s in it but I,m almost positive that if it did it would feedback earlier.I believe Greg at Blows Me Away might have a break down of different tube gain factors and if he does,nt the search forum will have the info on that somewhere.GL,NC
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SuperBee
4490 posts
Feb 08, 2017
1:56 PM
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Generally correct but with the deluxe take care as some of those lower gain tubes, especially the 12au7 and 12at7 have significantly higher current draw and in the deluxe you'll want to uprate the power handling capacity of the plate resistors, especially on the Phase Inverter v3 which sometimes go bad under normal use anyway.
And you may not like the way it effects the response of the amp for guitar. Or not.
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Wade Scronce
11 posts
Feb 08, 2017
4:31 PM
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thanks for that input guys, greatly appreciated
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SuperBee
4494 posts
Feb 08, 2017
6:47 PM
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Yeah wade you can make that deluxe into a great-sounding harp amp, but finding the compromise with your guitar is gonna be the trick. Try the 12ay7 in v1, it may help a little. I had a stock hr deluxe for a while and it was just very touchy on the volume knob but it's got plenty of gain generally to cope with an AY. Kinda really depends on what you like your guitar to sound like. The 12AY7 probably will change the tone but you may be able to compensate with different settings on the eq
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Wade Scronce
12 posts
Feb 20, 2017
6:55 AM
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Superbee and NiteCrawler, I got the mod kit installed ok and it was an improvement, especially for the guitar. Played it out on a jam night and still was not crazy about the harp sound so I ordered the ay 7 and put it in last night and I have to say, this amp is going to be fun to play! I really like its potential and am anxious to to some experimenting with it. I would highly recommend the Granger mod kit for anyone wanting to do it, but I really think the lower gain preamp tubes are the way to go. The WGS ET65 speaker is def an improvement. I will make this work until I maybe run across a deal on a bassman or Band master I can afford.
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dougharps
1364 posts
Feb 20, 2017
8:31 AM
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You could use a boost pedal for guitar to make up for the 12AY7 having lower gain.
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Doug S.
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