Roverharp
51 posts
Sep 28, 2016
7:57 PM
|
There seems to be lots of opinion on the overblow capability of various harps. Not so much as regards half-valving.
So, for you half valvers, do you have a model preference that responds best to valves? What are your set up tips?
I've built numerous half-valved harps and achieved some nice results but the two limitations I have are as follows:
1) Deep, juicy bends are available when starting from the unbent note but hitting the bend straight on is weak or chocked. Good for expression but unusable on a quick passage.
2) The 1-6 blow bends are much more reliable than the 7-10 draw bends. Is this due to the shorter reeds or the change in breath direction?
I can overblow but have never been satisfied with them for some of the same reasons. And, sadly the x-reed concept has not as yet come to fruition. I might be tempted to revisit half-valved diatonics if anyone can offer some insight.
|
SuperBee
4149 posts
Sep 29, 2016
2:44 AM
|
Not much experience with them. I have some valve promasters which I found frustrating. Removed the valves from some, found they were still terrible to play so never really had a chance. Wasn't really encouraged by the experience though.
I was catching up with Jimi Lee a couple years ago when he was working up some numbers using gazell method 1847s and he was quite enthusiastic about them. He overblows quite well but told me he was enjoying the valve bends in certain songs as it allowed him to approach the note in a different (more pleasing) direction.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Sep 29, 2016 2:44 AM
|
Harp Study
212 posts
Sep 29, 2016
6:22 AM
|
I have valved all kinds of harps and won't say there is a best one. It is harder with the dividers in the comb like on a special 20 but I have done plenty of them. I leave the divider in and it doesn't seem to affect the valve.
The important thing is the valve material. Plastic ones don't work well in my opinion. I use a material similar to what PT uses on his. I have several harps from PT and they are great. Almost ever harp I have gotten from PT I just pulled out of the box and it played exactly how I wanted it to.
As for setup. You have to open the gaps on the reed that is being bent and it seems to help if the valve stops just short of the reed slot (something that PT figured out I believe)
Last Edited by Harp Study on Sep 29, 2016 6:23 AM
|
Brendan Power
526 posts
Sep 29, 2016
6:27 AM
|
One important criterion if you're going to half-valve your own harps is how long the comb chambers are.
On many harps (eg. Hohner classics, Suzuki Manji etc) the chambers are only just longer than the reeds. That means you need to create 'pockets' at the end of the slots in the underside of the comb, for the ends of the valves to fit inside. Without them the valve will sit between comb and reedplates, causing a big air gap.
If you want to avoid the faff of making pockets, there are some harps with long chambers that are easy to valve. The Suzuki lipped-comb Harpmaster and Bluesmaster are two, as well as the Chinese Kongsheng harps with lipped combs (theirs are a copy of the Suzuki lipped combs).
Re. The Suzuki Promaster: as many know, I was the inventor of half-valving, and received a royalty from Suzuki for the idea for 5 years on the Promaster MR350-V when it first came out in 1990.
However Suzuki valves were not great for many years: loud, rattly and prone to sticking. But that's changed. Suzuki are equipping the newer Promasters with tapered black valves that have a thin gel-like under-surface, making them quiet and non-stick.
As many also know, I used to work for Suzuki 2006-2012. I no longer do but am happy to give credit where credit is due: these new Suzuki valves are very good.
Unfortunately they don't sell the valves or even the material - I've asked.
Last Edited by Brendan Power on Sep 29, 2016 9:09 AM
|
root
78 posts
Sep 29, 2016
6:39 AM
|
If you're valving your own harps, check out the valves Danny G sells at New Harmonica.com.They were developed by Wally Peterman. I have them on my Easttop brass-combed 64 chromatic. I used to warm the harp up in a heating pad, but with these valves. it's not a problem. Have'nt had to warm t up since they were installed. A little pricier than some, but worth it.-Greg
|
WinslowYerxa
1224 posts
Sep 29, 2016
10:48 PM
|
Valved bends don't start easily from a cold start (already bent) because they're not supported by a responder reed like dual-reed bends. They're harder to control in general for that reason. Therefore I'm not sure that one brand or model of harp will respond any better than another. You just have to work specifically on your valved bends - they're part of a related, but different type of bend that requires its own skill set.
===========
Winslow
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Join us in 2017 for SPAH in Tulsa!
|
mlefree
770 posts
Sep 30, 2016
3:39 AM
|
At nearly a dollar a valve I haven't tried Danny G valves and I don't think I will any time soon. $10 will buy enough Ultrasuede to half-valve dozens of diatonic harmonicas.
Chromatic valves are a different story. Half of chromatic valves are on the underside of the reed plates. Ultrasuede is too floppy to hold up against gravity when they're on the underside. Ultrasuede won't work with chromatics for that reason.
Even still, Danny G valves are 3 times as expensive as Hohner valves. It would cost $30 to replace the valves on a 16-hole chromatic. They must be fantabulous.
Michelle
----------
SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
Last Edited by mlefree on Sep 30, 2016 3:43 AM
|
Brendan Power
528 posts
Sep 30, 2016
4:05 PM
|
Harmonica valves are very tricky things to get right. So insubstantial as to seem almost trivial by comparison with the main heft of a harmonica, if they play up they can dominate every other part in their negative effect. And if they work well they punch way above their weight in the good things they can bring to the sound and performance of a harmonica.
I find them fascinating. They are so demanding! Or rather, the stuff they need to do is so demanding. Sitting valves not so much, but hanging valves are tough!
Hanging valves need to be springy enough to return to flat against gravity, but supple enough to bend instantly out of the way of reeds vibrating through the slot.
Sitting or hanging, valves must be quiet as possible. They mustn't stick with capillary attraction, a problem with sitting valves on the outside of the top reedplate where condensation gathers.
So many criteria to meet, it's very tough to find one valve to do it all. I dont think we've found the perfect valve yet. I've tried so many materials, but every one has some flaw. It keeps things interesting :-) BP
Last Edited by Brendan Power on Oct 02, 2016 3:47 AM
|
Gnarly
1932 posts
Sep 30, 2016
7:42 PM
|
I haven't seen the new, black valves yet--I have yet to examine new harps tho, might try that on Tuesday when I return to Suzuki US headquarters.
Unless they are the same as the material used on the SUB30?
Last Edited by Gnarly on Oct 01, 2016 12:00 AM
|
Brendan Power
529 posts
Oct 02, 2016
3:47 AM
|
Hi Gary: yes, they are the same valves as in the SUB-30.
While their new valves are good, an area Suzuki still hasn't improved is the valve attachment. They use big gobs of glue that spread out beyond the valve and get between the reedplate and comb. Especially on chromatics, that can be a significant cause of air loss. I always check the inside valve bases carefully on Suzuki chroms and find I have to trim the excess glue with a knife more often than not.
You don't see this on Hohners or Seydels. Definitely something they should fix.
|
chromaticblues
1764 posts
Oct 06, 2016
8:10 AM
|
The newish Hohner moisture proof wind savers work very well on diatonics also. I'd like to expand on what Michelle said about the Danny G wind savers. Not only are they expensive, but they do get sticky because they aren't dimpled! I've read that the Hohner wind savers don't work well. There is a trick to it! If you use the type that have two pieces (the part that seals on the reed plate and a backing stability piece) some times the wind saver will make a slapping noise. OK don't freak out just cut 2 MM off the one that is making the noise and test. If it still is doing it cut it again. Some of them you will have to cut half off. I advise testing and cutting one at a time.
|
mlefree
773 posts
Oct 06, 2016
10:13 AM
|
Actually, Gnarly, you can flat-sand a blow reed plate just as easily as you can a draw plate. It just won't do you any good 'cuz the flat side doesn't touch the reed plate. ;^)
Michelle
----------
SilverWing Leather - Custom leather creations for musicians and other eccentrics.
|
