BC
57 posts
Jun 25, 2016
11:55 AM
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I am managing the musical entertainment for an outdoor festival at work. This is my first time doing this, so should be a great learning experience. So far so good. Part of my responsibilities is working with the sound guy. We have been discussing options for the musicians amps/instruments and how to connect to the PA. I'll also be playing a couple of harmonica instrumentals using my Fender Super Champ X2. I am used to having it mic to the PA, however the sound guy prefers to use the line out. I am not totally adverse to it, but wanted to get some fresh perspective on what I should watch for, particularly at sound check. I am using a wireless microphone so I can walk in front of the stage during sound check to get an audience perspective. This may be also be useful as I work with the sound guy and the other musicians.
Thanks
BC
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arnenym
395 posts
Jun 25, 2016
1:43 PM
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Try and listen how the sound is. You usually don't get the same sound from the amp when you line out compared to a microphone in front of the speaker.
A microphone just make the sound from the speaker louder.
But it caught a lot of sound from other instruments on stage
Both of them give easy feedback when you turn it up in a monitor.
When i look at the schematic i see the line out is connected after the solid state preamp and before the phase inverter tube and final tubes. It could be a beehide-ish distorsion or very clean.
In a "real" tube amp you use to connect the line out after the final tubes between the output transformer and speaker. This type of line out usually named "True line out"
I bet Greg could explain it better. English is not my own language.
Last Edited by arnenym on Jun 25, 2016 1:46 PM
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Killa_Hertz
1635 posts
Jun 25, 2016
4:04 PM
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I second that. Mic the amp has always been my preference from a sound perspective.
Especially after arnenym's insight of how the amp works.
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BC
58 posts
Jun 25, 2016
4:49 PM
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Thanks for the insights. I do prefer to mic the amp. I set up my amp a certain way with the built in effects and want that to come through. However for this particular show I won't make much of a fuss going line out to the PA. I have played jams running my SM57 directly to the PA and was pleased with the sound/tone. Perhaps if there is room on stage I can place my amp out front. I need to ensure that I am not too close to incur feedback. The sound check should help dial things in.
BC
http://www.bluesharmonica.com/teacher-accreditation?page=1
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Killa_Hertz
1639 posts
Jun 26, 2016
1:15 PM
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Well the difference with the line out vs to miced (per arnenyms explaination) is that with the line out you only get the pre amp signal.
With the miced amp you get the pre amp, the power amp, and the speaker breakup.
It's not exactly the same as running a vocal mic.
But at a big outdoor gig it should be cool. A good soundguy should be able to Make it sound fine. Add some nice reverb/delay, a lil mid boost perhaps, nobody will be able to tell too much i wouldn't think.
Maybe im totally wrong, but that's my 2 cents.
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LSC
756 posts
Jun 27, 2016
7:10 PM
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Generally speaking, I always prefer the amp to be miced, as do the vast majority of sound guys I've worked with. In fact I've never had one take up the offer to us the line out on either of my Sonny Jr's. Having said that, with your amp and that situation it won't make much difference and it's always a good idea to keep the sound guy happy
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LSC
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Greg Heumann
3249 posts
Jun 29, 2016
7:50 AM
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Line-outs get done two ways. Your's is pre-amp based - so you will not get a good representation of the tone of your amp. Line out circuits (like I install in Kalamazoo's, Sonny Jr. uses in his amps and I BELIEVE are used by amps like the Memphis Mini and Harp Train 10) are driven directly from the signal going to the speakers. They very closely represent the sound of the speaker itself.
Line out has advantages:
1) consistency
2) no floor noise pick up
3) no pickup of the amp next to yours
4) no contribution to feedback
5) no floor clutter in front of the mic
6) no constant readjustment of the mic's position because it keeps getting bumped (or people keep tripping over its cable, pulling it out of position )
So WHEN a GOOD (speaker driven) line out can be used, I prefer it. But there's nothing wrong with mic'ing an amp either, as long as you're willing to put up with the above drawbacks.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jun 29, 2016 7:50 AM
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1847
3503 posts
Jun 29, 2016
8:59 AM
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there are numerous products like this one here that
make mic'ing an amp easy as can be.
mic'ing an amp is the generally accepted best practice for sound reinforcement. and also for studio recording. although re-amping with a mic and a di
seems to be the latest "thing" these days.
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BC
59 posts
Jun 29, 2016
10:00 AM
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Thanks for all the great info. Definitely learning a lot.
If the sound from the PA at the show is not any worse than what I have experienced going direct to the PA at jam sessions then I should be OK.
I may consider purchasing a mic kit myself like the one 1847 shows. I'll search the net, however if anyone has any recommendations, let me know.
Thanks again
BC
http://www.bluesharmonica.com/teacher-accreditation?page=1
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LittleBubba
328 posts
Jun 29, 2016
1:53 PM
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If you are going to check into amp mic setups, consider looking at the Sennheiser "popsicle" mics - the 609 & 906. I've used a 609 for years, and you don't need a "kit" to use it. It's a very lightweight mic and I just loop the cable through the amp handle and dangle it in front of the edge of the speaker. It has the advantages of not needing a mic stand or holder, and regarding weight and space, less is more.
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BC
61 posts
Jul 02, 2016
12:55 PM
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I checked out the 609. The local music shop had a deal that included a tripod stand and 20' of XLR cable. Debating on whether to get it or not. It will depend on how often I think I'll use it. Today as I was playing, an interesting idea popped in my head. I also have an old small AMPEG amp, so I grabbed my 1/4" jack cable, put a line out on my Fender and plugged into the AMPEG. Got kind of a funky, but cool surround effect going. I can see some benefits to this dual amp thing like Adam had discussed in his video.
BC
http://www.bluesharmonica.com/teacher-accreditation?page=1
Last Edited by BC on Jul 02, 2016 12:57 PM
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