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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > How to implement speed runs?
How to implement speed runs?
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Mirco
411 posts
May 16, 2016
5:02 PM
I've been practicing some speed runs/ pattern playing (out of Winslow's Dummies book and Barrett's Rock Harmonica book). These patterns are fun to play, but how does a guy implement these speed runs in a solo?

Imagine I get two 12 bar choruses (the standard for a jam around here). I'm not interested in doing 24 bars of a blazing fast solo, because that would get tired quickly, so how could I use a short burst of speed in a tasteful way? Maybe play the first 12 bars, then do a four bar speed lick over the I, and then finish out that chorus?

I'm interested to hear how you guys use speed runs. Also interested in seeing some video of someone doing it well (and tastefully). Again, I'm not looking for a virtuoso 48 bars of all speed.

Hope that Winslow or Mooncat chime in on this.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
Killa_Hertz
1393 posts
May 16, 2016
5:55 PM
Shit .. well you know jason could and does do massive multi bar speed runs.

I have really no real frame of reference here, but id like to give it an educated guess n see if it jives with what others say.

Number 1 i dont think, if done right, it would get boring. You have the whole song up until that point to lead into your big run. Like Kim Wilsons Solo in Mojo on Ludella comes to mind for some reason.

I think it largely depends on the song to tell you what you should do and what you can get away with.

But I would think a Break Away (to use a hockey term) at the beginning 12 bars would be most impactful. Says this is my time now, look out bitches. Lol. Know what i mean? Then once you get their attention you fall back and hit something slow and tricky maybe. Idk.

This is all just rambling ideas, but ....

My 2 cents at the moment.



Edit: im sorry i didn't read that you wanted a short burst and are seeming to be talking about jam sessions where you can't exactly be cordinated with the band. As far as practicing ahead of time.

What i tend to do when noodling around is do a normal first 12 to set the pace. Then hit a fancy run for the 4 cord second time around.

Again just my 2 cents.
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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 16, 2016 5:59 PM
slaphappy
189 posts
May 16, 2016
8:52 PM
I think the thing about tasteful speed is you have to actually have the chops to play 24 bars of constant FAST but then DON'T ACTUALLY PLAY FAST.

I think aiming for a short burst will come across like you are trying to squeeze in a speed lick for speed's sake. The opposite of what you are trying to achieve!

Practice for speed generally, run the patterns in 2 and 4 bar chunks. String them together until you can go a couple choruses straight. Then throw it away and I think it will just come out naturally in little sprinkles and flourishes that will impress without looking like you are trying to impress.

I'm not super fast on the harp as you know Mirco but this is my approach as a guitar player who can play fast and this is what I like to hear on the harp. Hope it helps!

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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!

Last Edited by slaphappy on May 16, 2016 8:54 PM
harmonicanick
2451 posts
May 17, 2016
12:51 AM
Here is Jason lesson part 1 on playing fast, hope you find it useful
Diggsblues
2027 posts
May 17, 2016
9:42 AM
There are some fast licks in this solo.
Also, nice big Phat tone.
Solo starts at 2:20.

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harmonicanick
2452 posts
May 17, 2016
10:58 AM
A good solo from JP with fast bits

ted burke
464 posts
May 17, 2016
12:30 PM
Fast blast of well placed notes can give a solo a terrific shot in the arm,like all those times in Freddie Hubbard solos where he's slowly building off the solo, expanding the melody wonderfully, and then coming to a point in the improv where he launches into an exciting, flawless run of notes, fast as the dickens and thrilling. He's the sort of player who's learned the theory and the scales intimately and developed the capacity to turn those notes he can command at will into musical phrases rather than a constant demonstration of technique. It's spontaneous composition, as Zappa would say, you're composing a solo on the spot, and each phrase corresponding to the chord and melody it's elaborating upon being a part of something unique and compelling that expands the musical narrative.
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Ted Burke

tburke4@san.rr.com
WinslowYerxa
1145 posts
May 17, 2016
12:43 PM
Speed is velocity and increased velocity ups the energy level and can even create tension.

A big part of musical dynamics is creating tension and then resolution. You can do this with chords, note choices against those chords, volume, rhythms, and velocity.

Some obvious places to ratchet up the tension to prepare the arrival of an event:

Heading for the IV chord

Heading for the V chord

Heading into the next verse.

What do you do when you arrive at the first beat of the new chord?

For the IV chord, probably chill.

For the V chord - wail or keep up the tension.

Going into the next verse - either one, depending on the overall build of your solo.
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Winslow

Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
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The Iceman
2869 posts
May 18, 2016
5:56 AM
Speed for its own sake is no substitute for true artistry, although there are many that subscribe to the testosterone driven approach - I find it numbing after a few minutes.

Some specialize in speed runs, injecting pauses between them with the hope that somehow, this makes it more listenable.

I subscribe to the philosophy that speed runs should be used like salt to season a dish - too much ruins the flavor.
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The Iceman
Killa_Hertz
1415 posts
May 18, 2016
4:27 PM
I think it depends on the dish. With straight blues i think your definitely right. Almost always.

But some of Riccis songs Ripp for a good while and they sound great the whole time. But sometimes hes bouncing off the guitar or something else. Or The speed runs create a pattern or beat that's Slightly predictable so that you take the listener with you. Ya know? If it's just random crazyness you ve lost me after like 5 seconds.

I find it funny that i never hear anyone say "Uhhg .. That Van Halen. All he does is play notes really fast. That jimi hendrix has Note diarrhea." Idk. Just saying.

Either way you have to feel it in there. You can't think it to fit. If that makes any sense. Just know your fast patterns and licks so well that you insinctually just insert them where they fit.


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Last Edited by Killa_Hertz on May 18, 2016 4:29 PM
HarpNinja
4229 posts
May 19, 2016
9:00 AM
I work with several students on this. They want to learn patterns and then how to phrase with them.

I would say listen to Ricci and Popper and listen to their phrasing.

To break it down a step further, when playing blues, the most climactic ways to throw in some speed licks would be:

1. The transition from the I to the IV
2. The turnaround
3. The IV moving to the I of your last turn

I phrase in bursts and tend to stay away from playing really fast for a lot of bars in a row when playing blues.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
HarpNinja
4230 posts
May 19, 2016
9:01 AM
I didn't read the whole post and just noticed that Winslow already said the exact same thing. It is about tension and release!
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
snowman
208 posts
May 19, 2016
9:08 PM
ALWAYS LEAVE THEM WANTING MORE----

I have a guitar player friend who knows theory forwards and backwards---he Reads music----could easily do studio work--but in his band when he does a solo- he first captures the audience-----second amazes them---then continues without looking up--- keeps playing till he losses them--
I have played with him and watched the audience go through this transformation---they usually leave, get a hot dog and come back when the singer starts again

I agree with Icemans take—I call it “aimless noodling”
Mirco
414 posts
May 20, 2016
11:24 AM
I think one of the key points that people keep highlighting is that this should be used in a thoughtful way and sparingly. This is why, in my OP, I mentioned using them in a "tasteful" way. A "shot in the arm" like Ted said or salt to season the dish, as Iceman said.

It seems to make sense to play a quick burst of speed either in bars 5-6 (on the IV) or in bars 7-8 (the I). When I listen to Sonny Boy or Cotton (who is often imitating Sonny), they place their triplets and their pattern playing in those places.
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
ted burke
468 posts
May 20, 2016
12:23 PM
My thinking goes back and forth on this matter. Lately it has seemed an interestng idea to dispense with speed runs almost completely. Cultivate a set list, create interesting solos fills and melodies for the tunes you play on, but avoid any conspicuous use of "speed". Instead, save it for a show case tune and then have at it, play everything you know at a triple pace. Knock em dead. Make sure you have an interesting way of showing off your rapid chops. Then back into the line up, ready to play more music, at a tempo everyone can understand and enjoy.
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Ted Burke

tburke4@san.rr.com


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